It is inaccurate to generalize. But I will since you've asked and I'll probably be made to regret it. Music is a delicate thing. In my opinion, the less circuitry in the signal path, in general, the less damage is done. The less use of NFB, in general, the less damage. The more use of good quality parts, especially capacitors, the less damage. In special cases, more parts and high NFB can be better, but the designer really needs to be quite expert to avoid damaging the music.
Untrue.traderbam said:
Untrue - in fact almost the opposite of true.
A popular myth. Appropriate parts are needed, of course, and of the correct electrical value.
Any really simple RIAA preamp cannot avoid damaging the music, however expert the designer. Adding complexity and NFB allows for better results, if the designer knows what he is doing.
It's hard to disagree with DF96. You don't want "artificial dynamics", you want the system as a whole (source, preamp, power amp, cables, speakers, room, your ears) to come together to give you the most accurate portrayal of the original recording that you can achieve. That's the benchmark, surely - unless you want to colour/change the sound in some way.
There are many things which can detract from the performance, not least of which is the inability of a PSU to provide the power demanded, quickly enough to not "sag" during crescendos or bass-heavy sections. Personally my limited experience leads me to believe that the speed and capacity of the PSU is the main area to get the design right.
On the other hand, if a system makes your feet tap but is less "accurate" - who cares.
There are many things which can detract from the performance, not least of which is the inability of a PSU to provide the power demanded, quickly enough to not "sag" during crescendos or bass-heavy sections. Personally my limited experience leads me to believe that the speed and capacity of the PSU is the main area to get the design right.
On the other hand, if a system makes your feet tap but is less "accurate" - who cares.
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Erno Borbely published a couple articles describing an all-cascade phono preamp. The output stage was a cascade emitter-follower. I don't remember the details but he later published something - maybe just on his website - to the effect that he felt the cascode outputs caused a perceived loss of dynamics and removed the cascade emitter followers from his subsequent designs. Just FYI/FWIW.
Phil
Phil
I find it quite easy.
PSUs are very important.
There is a mis-understanding going on in this thread that vivacious, toe-tapping reproduction is an indication of less accuracy rather than better accuracy.
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I find it quite easy.
There is a mis-understanding going on in this thread that vivacious, toe-tapping reproduction is an indication of less accuracy rather than better accuracy.
or vice versa: that true toe-tapping quality can be had without adequacy and fidelity...
The most in here do love pcbs;-)
But how is to solder;-?
An old picture:
Left side, as has been taught. But has NOTHING to do with AUDIO-physics, AUDIO-electronics...
Right one: "Solderjoints with holes"-)))
Attempt!!! And tell the result respecting "dynamics"-)))
Should anyone disagree ... trust me, he is inexperienced, in practice and complex theory;-)
But how is to solder;-?
An old picture:
Left side, as has been taught. But has NOTHING to do with AUDIO-physics, AUDIO-electronics...
Right one: "Solderjoints with holes"-)))
Attempt!!! And tell the result respecting "dynamics"-)))
Should anyone disagree ... trust me, he is inexperienced, in practice and complex theory;-)
Attachments
Yes, depending on how you define adequacy and fidelity; that's the crux of the matter.
by high NFB, do you mean lower overall gain as no NFB gives the full open loop gain.
I tuned my preamp to sound equivalent to CD response by ear. however vinyl has a different warmth to it.
The net result is my Preamp is RIAA +-.25 db compliant from 100 to 8khz with slight boost at both ends. to my ear it sounds fuller and richer then MC cartridge systems.
24 db per octave cut at 1 hz.
I tuned my preamp to sound equivalent to CD response by ear. however vinyl has a different warmth to it.
The net result is my Preamp is RIAA +-.25 db compliant from 100 to 8khz with slight boost at both ends. to my ear it sounds fuller and richer then MC cartridge systems.
24 db per octave cut at 1 hz.
Fidelity means faithfulness to the original, so anything which moves away from this (however much someone may prefer this deviation) reduces fidelity.
"Toe-tapping quality" is purely subjective and a matter of taste, and is a poor guide to fidelity.
You can achieve enhanced dynamics by using an amplifier whose gain varies with supply rail voltage, whose current draw varies with signal level, fed by a PSU with high output impedance in the 'envelope frequency' region (maybe around 0.5-5Hz). A low power SET with no global feedback used at full volume, and a PSU with small capacitors will provide this - and has been advocated by some, although of course they do not understand why they prefer this over genuine hi-fi.
"Toe-tapping quality" is purely subjective and a matter of taste, and is a poor guide to fidelity.
People who seek fidelity will care. People who seek something else may not care. Many of these arguments arise because people who seek something else fondly believe that they are seeking fidelity; when given fidelity they find it "boring" and "sterile" and jump to the false conclusion that there is something wrong with the fidelity when in fact it is the fidelity itself which they find wrong.
You can achieve enhanced dynamics by using an amplifier whose gain varies with supply rail voltage, whose current draw varies with signal level, fed by a PSU with high output impedance in the 'envelope frequency' region (maybe around 0.5-5Hz). A low power SET with no global feedback used at full volume, and a PSU with small capacitors will provide this - and has been advocated by some, although of course they do not understand why they prefer this over genuine hi-fi.
@DF96: If I based my opinions on the vast majority of undergraduate text books and the handful of books by "audio" publishers I've come across, and almost all audio technical publications I have read including data sheets. I would probably be agreeing with you.
But, in my experience, reality somewhat disagrees with these sources when it comes to designing and building audio circuits that play music convincingly. It isn't so much a disagreement as a lack of sophistication.
But, in my experience, reality somewhat disagrees with these sources when it comes to designing and building audio circuits that play music convincingly. It isn't so much a disagreement as a lack of sophistication.
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Me? To be simplistic, NFB consumes open-loop gain to produce a smaller closed-loop gain. So to have high NFB you need the OL gain to be a lot higher than the CL gain. Of course, it is frequency dependent.
I would classify tonal changes as somewhat different from "musicality". Valve amps can sound warm and be very engaging but so can some solid state which may be tonally cooler. Altering the tonal balance can improve the sound but won't turn an unmusical circuit into a musical one. Sorry about all the vague adjectives here, I hope I'm making some sense.
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