Recently watched a movie with my daughter- Kung Fu Panda 4 at our local cinema. We were 2/3 towards the rear and in the centre. Most of the dialogue was jumping around ~75dB at our listening positioning. Quiet scenes were few and far between in this kids action movie, but got just below 60dB. During the explosive action scenes SPL pipped just over 105dB on few occasions.
This was screenshot during music at the end credits:
This coincides with my preference for movies at home. Adjust for clear dialogue ~70dB at MLP
This was screenshot during music at the end credits:
This coincides with my preference for movies at home. Adjust for clear dialogue ~70dB at MLP
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Do you have this measurement saved? What's peak level?
What you describe is EXACTLY ATMOS reference level! 30dB for speech to explosion is a little more as I expected but 75dBSpl for speech is already relatively loud, I stay with 65-70dBSpl at home for dialog.
100-105dBSpl for an explosion is not really that loud - when the speakers can do it with low THD. That's very different to listen to music with 100dBSpl, which is about "normal" concert level. We can take loud, short events pretty good, but 100dBSPL for an hour needs earplugs.
Thanks for your measurement - will have a look into SPL Pro!
My daughters want me to dual purpose 'our🙂' listening room to include cinema!
I like getting away from the screen, but a large screen would fit nicely on the front wall behind the SH50s I made.
They do voice etc just fine centred nicely, so centre speaker not really necessary.
Couple of smaller rears and we'd be there.
The 2 tapped horn subs and the 2 SH50s provide all the dynamics you could wish for..
Only concern is how to get the DSP'd crossovered SH50s and subs integrated with the rears.
Is there a DSP capable preamp / 5.1 unit or something that could split off the 5.1 to my existing DSP 2 channel system?
Subs would be a problem there though?
Would also need to work as a hifi 2 channel 4 / 5 way set up?
That's my conundrum.
I like getting away from the screen, but a large screen would fit nicely on the front wall behind the SH50s I made.
They do voice etc just fine centred nicely, so centre speaker not really necessary.
Couple of smaller rears and we'd be there.
The 2 tapped horn subs and the 2 SH50s provide all the dynamics you could wish for..
Only concern is how to get the DSP'd crossovered SH50s and subs integrated with the rears.
Is there a DSP capable preamp / 5.1 unit or something that could split off the 5.1 to my existing DSP 2 channel system?
Subs would be a problem there though?
Would also need to work as a hifi 2 channel 4 / 5 way set up?
That's my conundrum.
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The mains in that image are compact and the typical French Fry two way…….if there’s a compression driver in those, the efficiency is wasted on a 6.5” midwoofer……..add a second midwoofer in an MTM and now you’ve got my attention.
Is this system going behind an acoustically transparent screen too?…….if not, what size screen and what size feature wall?
Hello
The higher efficiency you go the larger the box to maintain LF extension. Check out Hoffmans Iron Law. You have sensitivity, enclosure size and bass extension. You can only have 2 never all 3. Not many can tolerate larger speakers unless they have a more or less dedicated room.
Rob
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef...nnot all,would compromise the third parameter.
This I can confirm. My 105Db efficient speakers extend the bass frequencies to 23Hz, but they're 24" wide, x 24" deep, by 47" tall. They command a tremendous presence in the living room of my 1600 sf condo. Fortunately, my s/o likes music almost as much as I do and has been rather supportive of my hobby, although I have noticed a few subtle barbs here and there.Hello
The higher efficiency you go the larger the box to maintain LF extension. Check out Hoffmans Iron Law. You have sensitivity, enclosure size and bass extension. You can only have 2 never all 3. Not many can tolerate larger speakers unless they have a more or less dedicated room.
Rob
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef...nnot all,would compromise the third parameter.
It's an 8" lower midrange driver with 92dB sensitivity. As it is close a wall and doesn't need to support low frequencies you get more sensitivity as with big HiFi Speakers (think of 8" midrange speakers). But for a bigger room you would need to use a 2nd 8", that's for sure.
And the next picture is with the screen ... I don't understand that question?
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That's exactly what you can do in a cinema system. You don't need bass extension when your woofer system covers 20-100Hz. You still need sensitivity and 8-10" drivers but tailored to 80Hz upwards. As the speaker will be hidden behind screens or acoustic fabrics anyways size of the speakers is not the problem. You need space for woofers anyways and to get there for cinema you have to think differently as with music alone.
Not sure what you are saying? Bass extension typically means digging lower. From 20-100 Hz you can go low with either big boxes or small. With small you loose sensitivity. Even for the 10's the same law applies over their bandwidth.
Rob
Yeah, I’ve never been drawn to outright dynamics or SPL, but I like efficiency. I moved away from HT about 15 years ago and now focus on quality two-channel. Even through that, there are several movies that go from 50dB dialog to 103dB dynamics, I think I mentioned it in recent years and it’s too much for my ears.
As far as the system, everything has been updated except the speakers, with that being the last build to complete it. I created that thread some time ago looking for recommendations for a 94dB 15” woofer, so I think you may have been among those helping in that search. Might have to go down to 12” or isobaric in order to get the cabinet size under control.
The floors in my house are poured concrete over compacted sand and gravel. I love it.
It's like a PA system. Your woofer plays the low frequencies. Your main system only goes down to 80-100Hz and can be "small".Not sure what you are saying? Bass extension typically means digging lower. From 20-100 Hz you can go low with either big boxes or small. With small you loose sensitivity. Even for the 10's the same law applies over their bandwidth.
Rob
No need for the main system to go down to 20Hz.
Marantz Cinema 70 AVR will provide the necessary preamp outputs to break out your active left and right channels as well as the subs.
MiniDSP Flex 8 HT can do this too.
Thanks. Good to get some recommendations. I'll check it out.
I looked at the Denon x2700h?
Heard of Flex 8 but not a HT version.
Much lighter on the inputs than the other receiver, but covers the ones I'd use.
One box solution should sound the best.
If only my Najda DSP didn't sound so good and so easy to use / flexible.
My next DSP would need full FIR capability for hifi, I think.
I'll just switch the tapped horn subs between HIfi amp and surround amp. Good quality 4 pole switches should do it.
I'm assuming the delays I use for phase coherent alignment will not get in the way of screen / lip syncing?
IIRC, you were using ~24ms delay (about double that which was actually needed for time alignment of your tops to the subs...).
The visual image should then be leading the sound by that amount, similar to sitting in the 8th row of a theater, or watching someone talk from 27 feet (8.3meters) away.
With video streaming, sometimes the image lags behind the sound, totally unnatural in the real world, and I find it messes with understanding dialog, makes it hard to lip read
. Regarding your 4 pole switch, it should be a “break before make” type (break connection to one amp before making a connection to the other amp) and switch all four connections (no common ground) to prevent both amps from being connected to each other for a split second, which could trigger protection circuits or fry outputs.
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Look for the 3700H, it has a lot more valueable features and, most important, pre-amp outputs. Since the 3800H is out, you may get it heavily discounted, about the price of the Maranz. Which is no bad AVR at all. The Denon is just a little more "beef" and less "life style" optics.
Thanks Art.
As I work through this I think the only was will be for the the AV receiver to feed either the subs at speaker volume or feed the big amp I use at line.
That way the AV receiver can take care of the sync with subs and rears and eventual centre.
A feed to Najda DSP XO etc for the SH50s only. Najda can have no or as little delay from HF driver and MF / LF as required, to be as close as possible.
Btw my tapped horn subs do a great job at cinema.
I played some sound tracks, effects, explosions etc Shock and awe.
These will quite happily make the air around you oscillate at 18Hz on stuff like Felix Hell's Organ Sensation, so I know there'd be okay.
The drivers are Eminence Kappa Pro LFIIs.
I will just tickling them.
Steve,
In the old days I recall AV amps being able to route the sub ( .1) output to the main L/R speakers. Not sure if modern amps still have that option but it would mean you would not have to swap the Tapped subs between systems. Set the front left / rights to large , route the subwoofer channel to mains and then use the av amps speaker distance settings to allow for the mains speakers (najda ) delay by setting the front left right speaker distance closer than they really are. Other option set the surrounds a lot bigger distance away to delay them to match.
Hope that made some sense.
Rob.
In the old days I recall AV amps being able to route the sub ( .1) output to the main L/R speakers. Not sure if modern amps still have that option but it would mean you would not have to swap the Tapped subs between systems. Set the front left / rights to large , route the subwoofer channel to mains and then use the av amps speaker distance settings to allow for the mains speakers (najda ) delay by setting the front left right speaker distance closer than they really are. Other option set the surrounds a lot bigger distance away to delay them to match.
Hope that made some sense.
Rob.