SY said:
I thought you were involved in some way. I loved the wood frame for the power supply and the "tower" heat sinks for the actual boards. Its got me thinking of building a power supply as a separate unit and sending the DC to individual heat sink/mono channels on the back of my speakers. That way I avoid the heat build up in my rack and don't have to move anything that is already there.
Of course one of you engineering types will tell me that sending the DC that far will ruin the sound. But I have clay ears so it doesn't matter anyway, right Peter?Bananaslug86
Some of you seem to forget that there are various level in DIY.....
Some of you writing in this thread are indeed in the very elite of DIY audio, whereas the average Joe or Bob are seemingly fully content with cloning a succesful designs or even the more simpler but not necessearly inferior designs, adding their own efforts in terms of sometimes extremely good looking cab's and boxes.
Most people will have the ability to learn the necesseary skill to make simple designs, - very few have the mojo and understanding in them to do a successful design, - then add the time and money needed, and the number gets even smaller.
As an EE, electronics has been my livelihood for 33 years now, and while I have done things in the past, mainly on loudspeakers, I still have the fever - but no time ( or maybe guts). Todays jobs have developed into more or less insane grinding pots, where fewer and fewer heads have to do more and more tasks...all to the sake of an ever increasing spiral of "cost efficiency". In this context, the possibillity to "relax" with DIY "anything" is of lesser importance, as more and more people just want to either excersize to keep fit ( not a bad idea), or / and then just sit down and be " entertained" ( read : watch brain dead TV shows) .......... sad fact , but still... the fact. DIY almost anything is getting to be a minority group. Since DIY audio is mainly a male passtime, what about our women? - Same facts in that camp.. what happened to typical female passtimes... Sowing, emboidery, knitting etc.etc. - more or less non existent, too!
As for the difference in "boutique" and mainstream products - while I personally would love to have an amp looking like Jan's "Spitzbergen" , most people won't! Not that it's foul or ugly - it's too big! TVs must be flat as a picture on the wall, and amps and speakers must not show! WAF/SAF is of even more importance these days - to match all the other hilarious looking designer furniture....
Who was it that said recently that " understanding wives or spouses are a truly endangered specie..." ???
Sigh.. what is becoming of this world...
PS - Keep up the good work, lads...you are a true inspiration to our ever diminishing community! ( I'll be here to listen to you - hoping to get some time during the next monts.. or years...
BTW- Jan- if you remember our little E-mails some years ago - I did visit Helgi's studio..but had to shorten my visit to Stavanger - because or work!
Halgeir
Some of you writing in this thread are indeed in the very elite of DIY audio, whereas the average Joe or Bob are seemingly fully content with cloning a succesful designs or even the more simpler but not necessearly inferior designs, adding their own efforts in terms of sometimes extremely good looking cab's and boxes.
Most people will have the ability to learn the necesseary skill to make simple designs, - very few have the mojo and understanding in them to do a successful design, - then add the time and money needed, and the number gets even smaller.
As an EE, electronics has been my livelihood for 33 years now, and while I have done things in the past, mainly on loudspeakers, I still have the fever - but no time ( or maybe guts). Todays jobs have developed into more or less insane grinding pots, where fewer and fewer heads have to do more and more tasks...all to the sake of an ever increasing spiral of "cost efficiency". In this context, the possibillity to "relax" with DIY "anything" is of lesser importance, as more and more people just want to either excersize to keep fit ( not a bad idea), or / and then just sit down and be " entertained" ( read : watch brain dead TV shows) .......... sad fact , but still... the fact. DIY almost anything is getting to be a minority group. Since DIY audio is mainly a male passtime, what about our women? - Same facts in that camp.. what happened to typical female passtimes... Sowing, emboidery, knitting etc.etc. - more or less non existent, too!
As for the difference in "boutique" and mainstream products - while I personally would love to have an amp looking like Jan's "Spitzbergen" , most people won't! Not that it's foul or ugly - it's too big! TVs must be flat as a picture on the wall, and amps and speakers must not show! WAF/SAF is of even more importance these days - to match all the other hilarious looking designer furniture....
Who was it that said recently that " understanding wives or spouses are a truly endangered specie..." ???
Sigh.. what is becoming of this world...
PS - Keep up the good work, lads...you are a true inspiration to our ever diminishing community! ( I'll be here to listen to you - hoping to get some time during the next monts.. or years...
BTW- Jan- if you remember our little E-mails some years ago - I did visit Helgi's studio..but had to shorten my visit to Stavanger - because or work!
Halgeir
Pete Fleming said:
Oh, we stopped doing it long ago : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85590&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
I guess it all depends how much adventerous you want to be, some equipment does not need to be boxed at all and the only limit for designer's vision is pratical aspect of end application.
BTW, it didn’t require 1000 hours of work and didn’t cost thousands of $ in raw materials, and what’s most important, while I was able to put it together in two days, it still looks good.
Thanks for the replies and especially the links guys, some people have great imagination. It's fantastic that people have taken the time to think about my question and come up with very considered answers.
It's very true that baby steps are the generally the first we take, and possibly the only ones many of us will ever take. Yet, as was pointed out, there are also those when an incredible depth of knowledge, experience and the requisite facilities to construct pretty much anything they like. I have seen examples of people going to quite extraordinary lengths to back-engineer and copy notable designs, no baby steps there.
Nevertheless, I hope my question isn't being lost somewhat in the example I'm using, I happened to chose the method of enclosure just as an example, simply because I could think of another method (so called "pipe") that I don't recall seeing before; why have an amplifier AND speaker wires. Is it because it's easy to construct on an assembly line (commercial constraints) or because the ultimate goal of accurate reproduction requires high packing density, and by default, the design will more or less resemble some form of cube? Sure, somebody could design an amp to be long and thing, but not without detracting from function. We see examples of this everyday, form OR function. Form rarely makes in itself good design (though some artists may beg to differ!); "design" for the sake of design.
Without going around in circles too much, this is the question I'm posing. Even with a completely different set of constraints will we essentially come up with the same, or at least very similar, solutions? If so, is it any surprise enthusiasm is waning? Hey Mr and Mrs guest to my house, look at this amplifier I've just spent the last 6 months building. "Wow, that sounds fantastic, and looks very professional, just like a bought one!"
Over the past, cripes, almost 30 years (how time flies) the real standout moments, the times that got me truly excited about this field, were presented to me, pretty much without exception, by those who were prepared to swim against the tide and challenge the conventional way of doing things. The first time I heard amplifiers put inside the speaker boxes (now that was a long time ago!), by Linn. The first time I heard omnidirectional speakers by MBL, the first electrostatic speakers, and so it goes on. None of the manufacturers were the first, they didn't "invent" that technology, but they sure were different to whatever else was sitting on the shelves at the time!
By saying "think outside the box" I'm not suggesting a literal interpretation, I'm questioning whether the boundaries of what is done in DIY have been fully explored.
It's very true that baby steps are the generally the first we take, and possibly the only ones many of us will ever take. Yet, as was pointed out, there are also those when an incredible depth of knowledge, experience and the requisite facilities to construct pretty much anything they like. I have seen examples of people going to quite extraordinary lengths to back-engineer and copy notable designs, no baby steps there.
Nevertheless, I hope my question isn't being lost somewhat in the example I'm using, I happened to chose the method of enclosure just as an example, simply because I could think of another method (so called "pipe") that I don't recall seeing before; why have an amplifier AND speaker wires. Is it because it's easy to construct on an assembly line (commercial constraints) or because the ultimate goal of accurate reproduction requires high packing density, and by default, the design will more or less resemble some form of cube? Sure, somebody could design an amp to be long and thing, but not without detracting from function. We see examples of this everyday, form OR function. Form rarely makes in itself good design (though some artists may beg to differ!); "design" for the sake of design.
Without going around in circles too much, this is the question I'm posing. Even with a completely different set of constraints will we essentially come up with the same, or at least very similar, solutions? If so, is it any surprise enthusiasm is waning? Hey Mr and Mrs guest to my house, look at this amplifier I've just spent the last 6 months building. "Wow, that sounds fantastic, and looks very professional, just like a bought one!"
Over the past, cripes, almost 30 years (how time flies) the real standout moments, the times that got me truly excited about this field, were presented to me, pretty much without exception, by those who were prepared to swim against the tide and challenge the conventional way of doing things. The first time I heard amplifiers put inside the speaker boxes (now that was a long time ago!), by Linn. The first time I heard omnidirectional speakers by MBL, the first electrostatic speakers, and so it goes on. None of the manufacturers were the first, they didn't "invent" that technology, but they sure were different to whatever else was sitting on the shelves at the time!
By saying "think outside the box" I'm not suggesting a literal interpretation, I'm questioning whether the boundaries of what is done in DIY have been fully explored.
Pete Fleming said:
Not so, if you look further than mass/majority behaviour.
Afaik, the PL-forum celebrity guest who's gone walkabout is still using his radiator aka water cooled power amps.
Et moi stuck two ugly plastic box power amps under the living room floor to solve the problem of 1200 watts heat and don't even bother to ask the G's to look for them.
And then there's the example of the diyA member who showed me his Horn-house, a house built around gigantic horns.
Stuff like that used to be exclusive for the home visit articles in the French LNRDS audio magazin, but appears to have turned into a mondial epidemic.
(other than that i've got a lower back hernia and can't sleep without pyjamas. Papa will likely sleep like a baby again tonight, the nerve.)
major off topic - or struck of real reality
mega grumpy ; last time - year ago , when I was in real mess with that everlasting trouble, I fainted twice in a row in bathroom , broke my nose and almost loose an eye .
so - I'm not dreking ya ,big dutchie .
anyway - happy expedition to latrine ; that's certainly most entertaining part
be happy in a moment when you are capable to use toilet paper by your self . from that moment it will go better
jacco vermeulen said:
mega grumpy ; last time - year ago , when I was in real mess with that everlasting trouble, I fainted twice in a row in bathroom , broke my nose and almost loose an eye .
so - I'm not dreking ya ,big dutchie .
anyway - happy expedition to latrine ; that's certainly most entertaining part
be happy in a moment when you are capable to use toilet paper by your self . from that moment it will go better
More off-topic.
It's not everlasting, i dislocated a disc. I'm not allowed to sit at all, nor bend my legs. It's either lying or standing, i manage maybe 250 yards a day on a diclofenac/tramadol/amyltriptyline/iboprufen cocktail.
Last sunday afternoon i had dinner at the house of a couple who had a $10K Loewe 52" TV on a SS pole from the floor to the ceiling, the TV could be turned and height adjusted with a remote control.
The guy was showing some Japanese movie, from a file on a laptop computer, said he found using DVDs too tiresome.
The Surinam food was fine, pretty TV, but usually you have to sit down to enjoy either.
Most people are OK with something out of the ordinary if it's convenient, i don't have much faith in a widespread individuality drive.
It's not everlasting, i dislocated a disc. I'm not allowed to sit at all, nor bend my legs. It's either lying or standing, i manage maybe 250 yards a day on a diclofenac/tramadol/amyltriptyline/iboprufen cocktail.
Last sunday afternoon i had dinner at the house of a couple who had a $10K Loewe 52" TV on a SS pole from the floor to the ceiling, the TV could be turned and height adjusted with a remote control.
The guy was showing some Japanese movie, from a file on a laptop computer, said he found using DVDs too tiresome.
The Surinam food was fine, pretty TV, but usually you have to sit down to enjoy either.
Most people are OK with something out of the ordinary if it's convenient, i don't have much faith in a widespread individuality drive.
jacco vermeulen said:
That's fair enough. Personally I find the idea of somebody turning their house into a giant pair of speakers just fantastic. Would I do it? Heck no...indeed I'd probably be shot by my wife if I even suggested it. But somebody had the nuts to do it, and I find that an exciting part of this field and something only available in DIY. I mean, imagine wandering into a local hi-fi store and asking about buying a pair of speakers. "Certainly Sir, we have this bookself model, nice 2 way box that one, or perhaps you would prefer this 3 way model?" "Um no I was thinking more along the size of, oh I don't know ... a house!"
Is it an individuality drive or merely expanding the envelope? If the solutions within the DIY circles are different from commercial offerings, and many people in this field are doing it, is it still individuality? The example of mounting the amps under the house inspired a solution to a problem in my house, not the same problem, but wiring related. An easy, neat solution to a problem that would not be "available" commercially. No big deal, but it only came about because somebody had pushed the envelope beyond merely copying a commercial idea.
A good example, for me at least, of DIY pushing the envelope ahead of commercial designs is with home constructed airplanes. By and large, when somebody decides to build a light aircraft at home do you think they sit down and say great, I can copy a Cessna. No way! Since the home builder isn't subject to the same constraints as the commercial light aircraft builders, the DIY constructor is able to push the boundaries. As a result, not only is the home constructed aircraft as good as commercial offerings, it's almost invariably better performing! Don't we, in the audio circles, have the same opportunities?
Peter Daniel said:
Oh, we stopped doing it long ago : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85590&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
I guess it all depends how much adventerous you want to be, some equipment does not need to be boxed at all and the only limit for designer's vision is pratical aspect of end application.
BTW, it didn’t require 1000 hours of work and didn’t cost thousands of $ in raw materials, and what’s most important, while I was able to put it together in two days, it still looks good.
Hi Peter. Nice amp, but watch out for kid's and cat's
Pete Fleming said:
I'm sure there are still plenty who get aroused by the thought of being Hardy Krüger in Flight of the Phoenix, but the pickings are not getting richer.
The kids overhere on occasion still ask me to go Full Monty on my vast scar ensemble that i collected by 1-on-1 imitating Johnny Weismuller till i was 12-ish, including the accompanying death wish tales recital.
But after the ceremony they return to their computers, playstations, and game boys for their own private make-belief Gladiator games.
The biggest Roman Legionarius of the lot throws up, just by me suggesting a weekend of bronc ocean sailing together.
My g/f can suggest digging tunnels in the dunes or adventure games in the old German Reich concrete bunkers at the beach, as she did so often during her youthy years overhere.
It's 10 yards from the front lawn gate to the dune entrance and 500 yards to the sea shore, The Hermanos rather prefer being aircon driven to either one of three ice-cream beach entrances or endless hours of cartoon TV staring.
Even up till high school days fellow adolescent turds used to call me The Professor, but current generations at times make me somewhat nausiated by their lack of creativity and sense of adventure.
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jacco vermeulen said:
glad to hear that ;
contrary to my situation ( do not worry - I'm nuckin' futz , anyway )jacco vermeulen said:
are you aware that sometimes I'm certainly only one who's nutz enough to read and understand what you ( TF ) are writing .....
hehe ...look at this one :
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I would like to ask this about AKSA 55N.
It costs about 500 pounds to build the whole project so lets take half a dozen new amp models which cost 500 ~ 1000 pounds in the shops.
The AKSA is an old design whereas the newer amps may be using newer topologies.
So has anybody actually done such a comparison?
ultimately if you can buy a 500 pound amp which is better than the asksa then its not really as good as it claims to be. I would like to know a definitive answer.
It costs about 500 pounds to build the whole project so lets take half a dozen new amp models which cost 500 ~ 1000 pounds in the shops.
The AKSA is an old design whereas the newer amps may be using newer topologies.
So has anybody actually done such a comparison?
ultimately if you can buy a 500 pound amp which is better than the asksa then its not really as good as it claims to be. I would like to know a definitive answer.
A definitive answer, that is unreasonable request. Unless of course you are the last person on earth. This may sound odd to you but sometimes I build a circuit to spec and listen to it to see what the designer was trying to achieve. I sincerely doubt 2 people actually hear alike maybe close. Having been in the Industry (lowly audio salesperson in my youth) and building my own stuff. I still don't consider myself to posses a "golden ear" but I do know when I like it. I seem to like Mr Pass's ears after building 3 of his amp designs. I still like my tube stuff it just sounds different. I find myself changing equipment for different styles of music.
Not a definitive answer but have compared my AKSA 55N+ to 2 commercial amps in recent times.
They were the Cambridge 840A V2 and the Yamaha A-S1000 (the new retro looking thing) with both having novel circuits such as Class XD and floating / balanced amplifier etc. Even though their power ratings exceeded the AKSA by a considerable margin they sounded wimpy and didn't have the drive of the AKSA and lost out immensely in pure sonics. I bought both of these as potential replacements for the AKSA for operational reasons and both were a disappointment.
One thing you have to consider with the AKSA is a good pre amp as it does deserve and need one to fully shine.
They were the Cambridge 840A V2 and the Yamaha A-S1000 (the new retro looking thing) with both having novel circuits such as Class XD and floating / balanced amplifier etc. Even though their power ratings exceeded the AKSA by a considerable margin they sounded wimpy and didn't have the drive of the AKSA and lost out immensely in pure sonics. I bought both of these as potential replacements for the AKSA for operational reasons and both were a disappointment.
One thing you have to consider with the AKSA is a good pre amp as it does deserve and need one to fully shine.
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