Yes they are not Hi-Fi but quite good party speakers and most HI-FI boxes sound dead after you exposed to altec 511 crossed to 15". My friend has a set and he doesn't want me to even install altec's own EQ circuit for home use to lower this horrible honk. So we just put some old 80's rock and jazz and crank it up like some bone heads 
and pour more cheap wine into glases. Ah, those small pleasures of lower classes.....
and pour more cheap wine into glases. Ah, those small pleasures of lower classes.....
the extra eyes you grow?
imo you need more heat than a propane torch can produce for that heat-on roof stuff... that could be a problem on plastic horns - but they do have a self stick version for "ice" proofing too... might work on plastic.
stuff is a sheet, unlikely to drip ever, it is a heat bonding adhesive of some sort - I have been meaning to check it out.
_-_-
Yeah , I know I have all too many better horns and better drivers but they don't quite have the "presence" and lovely honk like 511B does and guitar riffs don't sound quite the same
"Ice& water shield" self adhesive stuff is ok too but little thin. If you work fast and have little experience propane torch is quite enough. Best way is to melt one side well and attach it to the surface, lift the rest and carefuly heat it up with torch gluing it down and proceeding to the end of the material. Last bit you just lift with metal fork heat up and glue down. Use glowes and work outside .
Yo Hawaiiman,
You are confusing critique of a consumer good with critique of the consumer.
I made no personal attacks and cast no innuendo upon anyone. I know many people like these dreadful things and that is fine with me. Read what I said not what you think I am saying.
This is not an "excessively broad statement"...it is very focused. One horn, the 511...although I would expand it to numerous other Altec cast horns, one at a time, case by case basis.
Since when is it morally reprehensible to criticize or reject bits of vintage audio gear?
I think I did my part for positive dialogue to promote ALTEC. I published the first articles on the topic of Altec for the experimenter in the US, started the Altec User's Group (which Todd took over and made into something valuable), and I had the first or second Altec info page on the www. W. Meckle, rest his DIY soul, may have had the first. Todd White was in there too.
And, yes, I may have let positive comments on 511s slip by the editorial desk.
I consider it a public service to speak my mind on the 511. There is too much happy talk about these things and I don't want impressionable young people to get the wrong idea.
The 511 is the Dominos Pizza of horns. I suppose it is edible and it gives one an idea of what a pizza is.
But I am from South Philly, land of 1000 pizzas made and consumed by actual Italian-Americans, and I lived in New Haven, ground zero for brick oven pizza in the USA. I just can't praise Dominos. However, I can see that Domino's franchises prosper in Philly and New Haven. Somebody must like that slop.
In the end it is to each his own. So if you are happy, congratulations!
Now, let me have my well-researched opinion! I did, after all, work hard to arrive at it.
Don't even get me started on JBL!
BTW: My critique is not only focused on entry-level horn components, such as the 511. I also really don't like TAD2001s. Tried to get those working for me for a few years too. Sold them and went back to 288s.
Hey Limono, those M15s are pimpin' dude! That system really intrigues me as a small, mid-grade solution. Don't know how much smaller you can go and still keep the faith.
You are confusing critique of a consumer good with critique of the consumer.
I made no personal attacks and cast no innuendo upon anyone. I know many people like these dreadful things and that is fine with me. Read what I said not what you think I am saying.
This is not an "excessively broad statement"...it is very focused. One horn, the 511...although I would expand it to numerous other Altec cast horns, one at a time, case by case basis.
Since when is it morally reprehensible to criticize or reject bits of vintage audio gear?
I think I did my part for positive dialogue to promote ALTEC. I published the first articles on the topic of Altec for the experimenter in the US, started the Altec User's Group (which Todd took over and made into something valuable), and I had the first or second Altec info page on the www. W. Meckle, rest his DIY soul, may have had the first. Todd White was in there too.
And, yes, I may have let positive comments on 511s slip by the editorial desk.
I consider it a public service to speak my mind on the 511. There is too much happy talk about these things and I don't want impressionable young people to get the wrong idea.
The 511 is the Dominos Pizza of horns. I suppose it is edible and it gives one an idea of what a pizza is.
But I am from South Philly, land of 1000 pizzas made and consumed by actual Italian-Americans, and I lived in New Haven, ground zero for brick oven pizza in the USA. I just can't praise Dominos. However, I can see that Domino's franchises prosper in Philly and New Haven. Somebody must like that slop.
In the end it is to each his own. So if you are happy, congratulations!
Now, let me have my well-researched opinion! I did, after all, work hard to arrive at it.
Don't even get me started on JBL!
BTW: My critique is not only focused on entry-level horn components, such as the 511. I also really don't like TAD2001s. Tried to get those working for me for a few years too. Sold them and went back to 288s.
Hey Limono, those M15s are pimpin' dude! That system really intrigues me as a small, mid-grade solution. Don't know how much smaller you can go and still keep the faith.
Yeah , I know I have all too many better horns and better drivers but they don't quite have the "presence" and lovely honk like 511B does and guitar riffs don't sound quite the same
You have a point there. They had the metal sound before there was metal music.
Obviously, many people like this effect...Ted Nugent fans, in particular.
Wang Dang Sweet Poontang!
A violin will take your head off though.
Hey Joe where you goin with that 511 in your hand? Keep posting I enjoy the info.
Joe have you had any experience with any of Don Keele's old EV horns? I am interested in the HR6040 and maybe the HR9040. right now I am playing with a set of Peacey CH-1 which is the horn from the SP-1 and the MFX-1. The Peavey looks like a half size HR9040. I have found that these stage and image better with the long axis in the vertical position rather than in the horizontal position. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts. Best regards Moray James.
Joe have you had any experience with any of Don Keele's old EV horns? I am interested in the HR6040 and maybe the HR9040. right now I am playing with a set of Peacey CH-1 which is the horn from the SP-1 and the MFX-1. The Peavey looks like a half size HR9040. I have found that these stage and image better with the long axis in the vertical position rather than in the horizontal position. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts. Best regards Moray James.
"BTW: My critique is not only focused on entry-level horn components, such as the 511. I also really don't like TAD2001s. Tried to get those working for me for a few years too. Sold them and went back to 288s."
Ouch , you keep throwing sand in my eyes. I've stolen from local church (forgive me brothers) a set of Tad drivers for my big redneck horn system .TM 1201 12" midbasses , TD4001, td2001 and ET 703 .I could not stand TD4001 in tractrix edgar horn with ET 703 supertweeter so I thought I will soften the edge with TD2001 crossed at 2-3khz over TD4001 and you say it's a bummer really? Maybe this damn bug screen needs to be removed?
Ouch , you keep throwing sand in my eyes. I've stolen from local church (forgive me brothers) a set of Tad drivers for my big redneck horn system .TM 1201 12" midbasses , TD4001, td2001 and ET 703 .I could not stand TD4001 in tractrix edgar horn with ET 703 supertweeter so I thought I will soften the edge with TD2001 crossed at 2-3khz over TD4001 and you say it's a bummer really? Maybe this damn bug screen needs to be removed?
I'm gone down to change my oil...using the other 511 as a drippin pan...
I share your interest in the EVs but I can only pass on second hand info that they are worth messing with. They are a classic option for 1.4" ALTECs and the 1.3" EVs, drivers which I am also sorta interested in trying out
They will, of course, require EQ but that is not a major obstacle. They look right, don't they? (yeah talking about "sighted belief systems" here
)There is solid on-paper engineering behind that era of EV. How they translate into the home music listening situation is the question.
I think that fabulous ghetto DIY bargains are to be had among the 80s technology, since this stuff has not acquired much mystique among the domestic horn guys. Export market appeal seems to drive vintage prices up more the than anything else and nobody wants this stuff in Korea.
Right now I'm listening to some Renkus 3301 2" drivers. Really quite good, although they lack the juicy vibe of large format ALTEC alnicos. I paid around $200 for the pair. I've been very pleased with this acquisition.
Now, being the poor cheapskate that I am, I'm flipping through ignored 80s parts looking for gems. Anybody have a pr. of alnico Emilar 175s for sale?
I'm open to other suggestions while I'm at it! Anybody?
288s were a lot more fun when they were $75 apiece all day long. Sadly, ALTEC has become the victim of its own success in the vintage market.
Compared with "high end" speakers, ALTECs are still a reasonable deal, some units more than others, but that is not the yardstick I use to determine value because I am not in the high-end speaker market.
The best and perhaps only way to find out is to try. I think the EV HRxxxx are worth a shot.
Those tractrix horns are an extreme case. They have amazing resolution and detail and incredible pinpoint imaging within a 6" square (hard to get both ears in the sweet spot). Again, I can understand how some folks would love them but they were not for me.
I thought the 2001s lacked emotional realism while providing a veneer of remarkable tonal realism. Technically, they are at the top of the heap (although i wonder how much dome tweeter-type uncorrelated ringing extends that top end).
I just could not relax while the 2001s were playing. Similar to the reason I rejected the 511s. Not the orientation I was looking for.
I guess I could say they are for the left brain listener while I am a right brain guy.
Since you already robbed the church, give the 2001s a try. You might get 10000 years off your 50000 year sentence in Purgatory for putting in the effort.
Joe
The secret to tractrix horn is a system with few horns stacked. One just sticks out like sore thumb. It reminds me a simple experiment when I brought TD4001 in Edgar horn to substitue for RCA driver on Altec 805B horn and I was quite sure that it will be no contest really . Yeah , it was ...but not the way I was thinking it would. Round tractrix midbass/upperbas really opens up a space and than you're not restricted to that 6" spot. EV white whale is a very nice (huge) horn but I would use it as a low mid up to 2-3k and get another horn with little 1" altec to take over. Good thread
The one horn I would really want to know more about is Westrex 20/80 Acoustilens Horn presently used with field coil coverted altec 288c and 515B in Shindo Latour speaker. Joe did you have a chance to listen and experiment with this one?
The secret to tractrix horn is a system with few horns stacked. One just sticks out like sore thumb. It reminds me a simple experiment when I brought TD4001 in Edgar horn to substitue for RCA driver on Altec 805B horn and I was quite sure that it will be no contest really . Yeah , it was ...but not the way I was thinking it would
. Round tractrix midbass/upperbas really opens up a space and than you're not restricted to that 6" spot. EV white whale is a very nice (huge) horn but I would use it as a low mid up to 2-3k and get another horn with little 1" altec to take over. Good threadThe one horn I would really want to know more about is Westrex 20/80 Acoustilens Horn presently used with field coil coverted altec 288c and 515B in Shindo Latour speaker. Joe did you have a chance to listen and experiment with this one?
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Never even saw the Westrex 20/80, only read about it. Could be good!
I heard other Westrex systems (big theater stuff) sounding very fine. They had a variety of very strange horns. I remember one multicell with two rows of cells like a 1005 on the outside but double height cells in the middle. Field coil driver, I think. Sounded good.
Have to look to the more recent British colonies for that stuff.
I tried the 150hz Edgar midbass horn with the salad bowl/2001 combo. Used my Onken/416 as a bass cab.
Try as I might, I couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again. Too many disjunctions.
I thought there was a big leap in "style" between the mid-bass horn and that round HF horn but there was something about that round horn that made it jump out at me.
I'm trying to get to a two-way and try to make the one xover disappear as much as possible. Maybe pop a tweeter in on top if necessary but if I can get 13-14k with EQ
Like everybody else, I tried misc multi multi way systems and couldn't ever get them to blend as well as I wanted. They would sound great for a while then I'd tend to find problems when I really got to know the sound.
Theoretically and practically, to the extent that it can be called practical (not very), I like the WE 15A concept. One horn with no filters, single-order to a tweet at 6kc.
The best tractrix horn I ever heard may have been the HF horn from the Klangfilm Eurodyn. it is a short horn with a fast flare. No horn sound. These were often fitted with diffusers but I didn't find them to be that beamy compared to some.
Here's a vid with the diffusers clamped over the horn.
Klangfilm Eurodyn ?Ann Burton??? - YouTube
I heard other Westrex systems (big theater stuff) sounding very fine. They had a variety of very strange horns. I remember one multicell with two rows of cells like a 1005 on the outside but double height cells in the middle. Field coil driver, I think. Sounded good.
Have to look to the more recent British colonies for that stuff.
I tried the 150hz Edgar midbass horn with the salad bowl/2001 combo. Used my Onken/416 as a bass cab.
Try as I might, I couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again. Too many disjunctions.
I thought there was a big leap in "style" between the mid-bass horn and that round HF horn but there was something about that round horn that made it jump out at me.
I'm trying to get to a two-way and try to make the one xover disappear as much as possible. Maybe pop a tweeter in on top if necessary but if I can get 13-14k with EQ
Like everybody else, I tried misc multi multi way systems and couldn't ever get them to blend as well as I wanted. They would sound great for a while then I'd tend to find problems when I really got to know the sound.
Theoretically and practically, to the extent that it can be called practical (not very), I like the WE 15A concept. One horn with no filters, single-order to a tweet at 6kc.
The best tractrix horn I ever heard may have been the HF horn from the Klangfilm Eurodyn. it is a short horn with a fast flare. No horn sound. These were often fitted with diffusers but I didn't find them to be that beamy compared to some.
Here's a vid with the diffusers clamped over the horn.
Klangfilm Eurodyn ?Ann Burton??? - YouTube
The accepted story on the CH-1 is that it was designed at Peavey right after they hired a couple of ex EV engineers in the mid 1970's. that could well be as they look like a half scale EV HR9040 measuring in at 28.5"W x 14.25"H x 18"D. They hold pattern control down to 500Hz maybe a little lower. You can buy these for $50.00 all day with a Peavey 22A driver hanging off of them and you can get a new Ti diaphragm for the driver.
With parts this big or larger one really wants to do their finding in the local market or shipping gets to you and either takes your money or takes your money and breaks your stuff too. Sadly I don't get to see much Renkus on the ground round here. Thanks for the comments. Best regards Moray James.
With parts this big or larger one really wants to do their finding in the local market or shipping gets to you and either takes your money or takes your money and breaks your stuff too. Sadly I don't get to see much Renkus on the ground round here. Thanks for the comments. Best regards Moray James.
Bear,
That is a late 1950s (I think) Neumann lathe. Can't read Japanese so don't know the model of the lathe...not that i keep track of this stuff. WV-2 is a Neumann RIAA/reverse RIAA low level amp. That is a good sounding 1960s piece.
All the rich dudes have "cutting machines" in Korea, but nobody actually uses them for playback. Strange. I figure they must be fairly decent record players...
Here's a few pics from the new Silbatone factory. We put together a table with a platter, bearing, and motor from a Neumann lathe. Check out that big honker motor! Supposedly it sounds really good. Took a year to get around to putting an arm on it and I have not heard it yet. This will be one of our factory demonstration tables.
We have the diffusers for the Eurodyns but I never heard them installed. Might be useful in a theater but unnecessary for average hifi use....but again who knows, maybe they do something really special.
I hesitate to infer too much from photos or the way things look, because I have been fooled too often.
The Eurodyn is one of those things that sounds so much better than it looks. It is one of the greatest speakers.
That is a late 1950s (I think) Neumann lathe. Can't read Japanese so don't know the model of the lathe...not that i keep track of this stuff. WV-2 is a Neumann RIAA/reverse RIAA low level amp. That is a good sounding 1960s piece.
All the rich dudes have "cutting machines" in Korea, but nobody actually uses them for playback. Strange. I figure they must be fairly decent record players...
Here's a few pics from the new Silbatone factory. We put together a table with a platter, bearing, and motor from a Neumann lathe. Check out that big honker motor! Supposedly it sounds really good. Took a year to get around to putting an arm on it and I have not heard it yet. This will be one of our factory demonstration tables.
We have the diffusers for the Eurodyns but I never heard them installed. Might be useful in a theater but unnecessary for average hifi use....but again who knows, maybe they do something really special.
I hesitate to infer too much from photos or the way things look, because I have been fooled too often.
The Eurodyn is one of those things that sounds so much better than it looks. It is one of the greatest speakers.
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I used the peel-n-seel from Lowes on my 2384's.
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