Banned
Joined 2002
Anthony,
Welcome back! I trust you are now refreshed and ready for another bash at what you do so well - amp design!
In light of previous posts, I will stick my neck out and defend your position because I believe some of the comments here are not realistic. Here goes........
1. DIY design is no less demanding than industrial electronic design, and yet the financial rewards are trivial by comparison because it is done largely for love, with lesser financial risk but without proper and complete business plans and financing. Sadly, the love of DIY slowly unwinds as these unpalatable facts reveal themselves to the designer. He has relentless overheads too.
2. Very few DIY people, with some notable and revered exceptions here, can achieve the technical mastery necessary to actually research, productionize and market the polished industrial designs the retail market AND the DIY market both demand. This is not a criticism of anyone; it's just that unless you work daily in the commercial environment it is unlikely you will reach the requisite levels of expertise. In any event most high end gear is designed by teams, not individuals. It therefore follows that people such as Anthony, with many years valued experience and a number of excellent designs behind him, should be made very welcome, particularly when he returns to the fold after painfully burning out from the intensity of DIY electronics. Guys, a tiny mistake on a pcb, probably made because he'd spent hundreds of hours on the design and was exhausted, is more than forgivable, particularly when the consumer acquired the pcb for essentially the production cost - and ALL THE IP AT NO CHARGE!!! Make Anthony welcome, for if you do not, he will again leave, and you will lose capable industry insights and useful dialogue which will enrich your understanding of the technology you practice as a hobbyist.
3. There is a perception amongst DIYers, and indeed amongst the buying public in general, that DIY electronics will be delivered as a polished, slick design for little more than the cost of the parts. A moment's thought indicates this is just not reasonable, and as a result, you should be tolerant of mistakes made. Remedying these mistakes individually takes a huge (and financially unrewarded!) service commitment. Your perception of a profit margin might in fact not even cover costs incurred; this is the nature of business. You are a DIYer because you love the technology; so a minor layout error should not be beyond your skills to pick up, and considering the thin infrastructure of most DIY designers it should not be handed to you at zero inconvenience!! Besides, forums such as this one offer a marvellous medium to promulgage corrections to DIY designs; heck, how many designers actually frequent the forums and are even available to discuss their designs with the consumer? NP, Jonathan, and a handful of others, not many. And how many software upgrades disguise grievous errors in the original, after all? And yet, with some complaint, we pay, and pay, and pay for our software.
4. Anthony is, to my knowledge, one of the very few DIY designers who presents just about everything required at a tiny charge to build a very high powered, genuine audiophile amplifier. A 50W amplifier is relatively easy; a 500W amplifier is a major intellectual challenge. All this is creditable and praiseworthy, yet all we hear is criticism that he didn't follow up on a pcb mistake, publish corrections on his website, and generally scrupulously follow up on all the customer inquiries. Is his time worth nothing?? Would you work for nothing?? This is time, after all........ He might well be pretty touchy about this, yet all I see here is carping self interest disguised as the moral high ground...... (I do NOT make individual accusations, incidentally, you are all nice people, just a little thoughtless.)
5. Very few of you realize the ruthless market you guys represent. You have an expectation, right or wrong, that circuit diagrams will be available at no charge; that help will be offered at no profit; that the manufacturers will be properly humble and know their place. I cannot survive in the Australian market; too tough. In the US and particularly the European markets, largely owing to favorable currency exchange, I can survive. In a world where patent protection is expensive, illusory, and often unenforceable, IP is routinely stolen as a legitimate mode of doing business, and many buyers unwittingly expect something for nothing. To you guys I would say (and with obvious deference to Nelson's products, which are superb), if you paid nothing for it, it's probably worth the money. Remember, most electronics is far, far more than a schematic; there are issues of component choice and layout in all designs, and I refute utterly the motives of the individual who wants Anthony's schemats, his pcb layouts, and his detailed instructions at no cost. It does the DIY a discredit to have this expectation; how many of you would give years of his life to have it all ripped from him at no profit? Clearly companies offering DIY products into such an adverse business environment would not survive for long, which of course makes your choices narrower and less interesting.
IN closing, I applaud Anthony's designs, which are very, very good, and I'm very glad he's back, and given what has happened to him personally, I'd ask all here to be a little more reasonable in their expectation of what is essentially a free and worthy creative service for the universal benefit of DIYers the world over. Don't abuse his dedication, and hand him a few plaudits ocassionally.
I have no financial interest in Anthony's designs, and in fact don't even know the man. But I know well the environment in which he has labored to produce his exceptional amplifiers.
Welcome back to DIYaudio, Anthony. I hope you enjoy your time here second time round......!
Cheers,
Hugh
Welcome back! I trust you are now refreshed and ready for another bash at what you do so well - amp design!
In light of previous posts, I will stick my neck out and defend your position because I believe some of the comments here are not realistic. Here goes........
1. DIY design is no less demanding than industrial electronic design, and yet the financial rewards are trivial by comparison because it is done largely for love, with lesser financial risk but without proper and complete business plans and financing. Sadly, the love of DIY slowly unwinds as these unpalatable facts reveal themselves to the designer. He has relentless overheads too.
2. Very few DIY people, with some notable and revered exceptions here, can achieve the technical mastery necessary to actually research, productionize and market the polished industrial designs the retail market AND the DIY market both demand. This is not a criticism of anyone; it's just that unless you work daily in the commercial environment it is unlikely you will reach the requisite levels of expertise. In any event most high end gear is designed by teams, not individuals. It therefore follows that people such as Anthony, with many years valued experience and a number of excellent designs behind him, should be made very welcome, particularly when he returns to the fold after painfully burning out from the intensity of DIY electronics. Guys, a tiny mistake on a pcb, probably made because he'd spent hundreds of hours on the design and was exhausted, is more than forgivable, particularly when the consumer acquired the pcb for essentially the production cost - and ALL THE IP AT NO CHARGE!!! Make Anthony welcome, for if you do not, he will again leave, and you will lose capable industry insights and useful dialogue which will enrich your understanding of the technology you practice as a hobbyist.
3. There is a perception amongst DIYers, and indeed amongst the buying public in general, that DIY electronics will be delivered as a polished, slick design for little more than the cost of the parts. A moment's thought indicates this is just not reasonable, and as a result, you should be tolerant of mistakes made. Remedying these mistakes individually takes a huge (and financially unrewarded!) service commitment. Your perception of a profit margin might in fact not even cover costs incurred; this is the nature of business. You are a DIYer because you love the technology; so a minor layout error should not be beyond your skills to pick up, and considering the thin infrastructure of most DIY designers it should not be handed to you at zero inconvenience!! Besides, forums such as this one offer a marvellous medium to promulgage corrections to DIY designs; heck, how many designers actually frequent the forums and are even available to discuss their designs with the consumer? NP, Jonathan, and a handful of others, not many. And how many software upgrades disguise grievous errors in the original, after all? And yet, with some complaint, we pay, and pay, and pay for our software.
4. Anthony is, to my knowledge, one of the very few DIY designers who presents just about everything required at a tiny charge to build a very high powered, genuine audiophile amplifier. A 50W amplifier is relatively easy; a 500W amplifier is a major intellectual challenge. All this is creditable and praiseworthy, yet all we hear is criticism that he didn't follow up on a pcb mistake, publish corrections on his website, and generally scrupulously follow up on all the customer inquiries. Is his time worth nothing?? Would you work for nothing?? This is time, after all........ He might well be pretty touchy about this, yet all I see here is carping self interest disguised as the moral high ground...... (I do NOT make individual accusations, incidentally, you are all nice people, just a little thoughtless.)
5. Very few of you realize the ruthless market you guys represent. You have an expectation, right or wrong, that circuit diagrams will be available at no charge; that help will be offered at no profit; that the manufacturers will be properly humble and know their place. I cannot survive in the Australian market; too tough. In the US and particularly the European markets, largely owing to favorable currency exchange, I can survive. In a world where patent protection is expensive, illusory, and often unenforceable, IP is routinely stolen as a legitimate mode of doing business, and many buyers unwittingly expect something for nothing. To you guys I would say (and with obvious deference to Nelson's products, which are superb), if you paid nothing for it, it's probably worth the money. Remember, most electronics is far, far more than a schematic; there are issues of component choice and layout in all designs, and I refute utterly the motives of the individual who wants Anthony's schemats, his pcb layouts, and his detailed instructions at no cost. It does the DIY a discredit to have this expectation; how many of you would give years of his life to have it all ripped from him at no profit? Clearly companies offering DIY products into such an adverse business environment would not survive for long, which of course makes your choices narrower and less interesting.
IN closing, I applaud Anthony's designs, which are very, very good, and I'm very glad he's back, and given what has happened to him personally, I'd ask all here to be a little more reasonable in their expectation of what is essentially a free and worthy creative service for the universal benefit of DIYers the world over. Don't abuse his dedication, and hand him a few plaudits ocassionally.
I have no financial interest in Anthony's designs, and in fact don't even know the man. But I know well the environment in which he has labored to produce his exceptional amplifiers.
Welcome back to DIYaudio, Anthony. I hope you enjoy your time here second time round......!
Cheers,
Hugh
Thank you!
Hi dean
Thank you for your public support, Its true you don't know me but I hope in the future we may have a Opportunity to meet in person, perhaps the next time I visit Melbourne.
As a very small gesture I will put a link to your web site on mine.
Warm regards
Anthony Holton
PS: My new email address is aholton@netspace.net.au
Hi dean
Thank you for your public support, Its true you don't know me but I hope in the future we may have a Opportunity to meet in person, perhaps the next time I visit Melbourne.
As a very small gesture I will put a link to your web site on mine.
Warm regards
Anthony Holton
PS: My new email address is aholton@netspace.net.au
Yeah I thought that might happen.
Try ahoulton@netspace.net.au
I have only just moved over to netspace yesterday and they mis-spelled my name. I rang them today and they said to would be changed.
Anyway give that address a try.
regards
Anthony
Try ahoulton@netspace.net.au
I have only just moved over to netspace yesterday and they mis-spelled my name. I rang them today and they said to would be changed.
Anyway give that address a try.
regards
Anthony
Anthony,
I am very glad to see you have returned! I definitely look forward to your continued production of the DIY amp designs. You are practically the only person who has well-designed high powered amplifiers with PCBs and instructions available. While it was a little troublesome for some of us less experienced folks to build your amplifiers while you were away, I know that I learned a great deal from the experience and your service was still really valuable. My sym amps are working wonderfully. I wish you a quick recovery and a successful business...
Thanks
Michael P
I am very glad to see you have returned! I definitely look forward to your continued production of the DIY amp designs. You are practically the only person who has well-designed high powered amplifiers with PCBs and instructions available. While it was a little troublesome for some of us less experienced folks to build your amplifiers while you were away, I know that I learned a great deal from the experience and your service was still really valuable. My sym amps are working wonderfully. I wish you a quick recovery and a successful business...
Thanks
Michael P
Anthony, in case you haven't seen them, here are my sym amps. Monoblock....w/ 1kw power supplies in each. 12 outputs per channel and upgraded driver transistors, mjl15033/2 per suggestions by people on this board. 60kuf caps per rail w/ 68vdc rail voltage. They sound dang nice. I compared them to Rod Elliots DOZ high power that I made....about 50wpc ...and all the people that heard it were divided right down the middle, obvious more power is nice, and man does the symamp do accurate bass and mids and sparkly highs, but the laidback forgiving mids of the DOZ were also attractive to some. 50% like the symamps better, 50% liked the DOZ. Anyway, good to see that you are back!!!
http://diyne.speakerdesign.net/diy2003/diy2003_pics.htm
this first pic is me...next to the amps :-D
for all of you that think you can't build amps...suffice it to say i have a biology degree and I'm in dental school currently...no electronics background...and no scope! just a multimeter and ambition build anthony's amps! good stuff
-Matthew K. Olson
http://diyne.speakerdesign.net/diy2003/diy2003_pics.htm
this first pic is me...next to the amps :-D
for all of you that think you can't build amps...suffice it to say i have a biology degree and I'm in dental school currently...no electronics background...and no scope! just a multimeter and ambition
build anthony's amps! good stuff -Matthew K. Olson
Banned
Joined 2002
Greetings Matthew
Thanks for the encouragement and for building some of my amplifiers. I hope they give you years of service.
I think it would be a great idea to add a amplifier gallery to my website, just like Nelson Passes DIY website. featuring my amplifiers that people like yourself have built.
Do you have any photos of the inside of the mono blocks?
they look great by the way!
Anyway if anybody wishes to send in to me any photos of their amplifiers I will post them on my website.
Warm regards
Anthony Holton
My current email is ahoulton@netspace.net.au
www.aussieamplifiers.com
This email will change again to aholton@netspace.net.au
Thanks for the encouragement and for building some of my amplifiers. I hope they give you years of service.
I think it would be a great idea to add a amplifier gallery to my website, just like Nelson Passes DIY website. featuring my amplifiers that people like yourself have built.
Do you have any photos of the inside of the mono blocks?
they look great by the way!
Anyway if anybody wishes to send in to me any photos of their amplifiers I will post them on my website.
Warm regards
Anthony Holton
My current email is ahoulton@netspace.net.au
www.aussieamplifiers.com
This email will change again to aholton@netspace.net.au
Banned
Joined 2002
anthony you should use the gallery software like mine.
http://24.70.80.252/photo it is really good. and runs on unix : O) and is secure. perfect for people like you and me.. but.. i have to updated mine and put all the 600 pic's back into the gallery as i just rebuilt it and re-arranged it it has not many pic's but soon..
simple to set up and perfect. if you need any help let me know.
Jason
http://24.70.80.252/photo it is really good. and runs on unix : O) and is secure. perfect for people like you and me.. but.. i have to updated mine and put all the 600 pic's back into the gallery as i just rebuilt it and re-arranged it it has not many pic's but soon..
simple to set up and perfect. if you need any help let me know.
Jason
Banned
Joined 2002
http://24.70.80.252/photo/index.php
the software can be downloaded from
http://gallery.menalto.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=2
it is called gallery 1.4.1
free of course. if you need help let me know
jasonleaman @ shaw.ca
the software can be downloaded from
http://gallery.menalto.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=2
it is called gallery 1.4.1
free of course. if you need help let me know
jasonleaman @ shaw.ca
Hello,
I must agree with most people here, Anthony's amps are a really good design. I recently ordered his updated version 1.0.5 of the AV800 PCB. I can't wait to build it. In the digital forums, I have built jwb's DAC, and await a replacement voltage regulator to get it working. Once it's complete and I get my bills paid off, I will be ordering the parts for the AV800. When Anthony has his 1kW avialable for sale I will buy that as well. I'm just getting into DIY audio, but have always loved electronics for all of my life. I particularly love designing and building my own circuits and will definately be going back to college so I'll have an EE degree as well as an EET degree. I hope, to someday design as well as Anthony and others. Doing what Anthony does is HARD work, so please leave him alone. You try designing high power, high quality amplifiers and see how it is. A simple silkscreen error is too much to complain about when you have the personal responsibility of designing a complex power amplifier. I love how it has differential inputs, the fact everything is labeled on the silkscreen which makes things so easy, and the detailed construction manual to go along with it. jwb's DAC wasn't that easily assembled, but why complain when you get a good quality circuit for free, free help and support is offered, and the fact you have the satisfaction of building it yourself. jwb's DAC was a challenge for me, but I'm glad it was, because that is the fun of DIY electronics. That is the fun of electronics in general, and that is why you ordered Anthony's PCBs in the first place.
Anyway, that is enough of my rant. My question is about parts. First of all, I plan on using volume control on the input of the AV800. I ordered two PCBs for stereo. Since there are differential inputs, this is perfect for jwb's DAC because the outputs are differential outputs as well. For now, what I would prefer to do is use a ganged potentiometer for volume control. Since I'll have 4 inputs to this amplifier (L+, L-, R+, R-), where would be a good, but cheap supplier in the US for a ganged potentiometer with 4 variable resistors?
Secondly, the heatsinks. Where in the US would be the best supplier? For the rest of my parts I plan on using digi-key, mouser, newark, and arrow. I'm sure I should be able to get basically everything.
Thanks.
I must agree with most people here, Anthony's amps are a really good design. I recently ordered his updated version 1.0.5 of the AV800 PCB. I can't wait to build it. In the digital forums, I have built jwb's DAC, and await a replacement voltage regulator to get it working. Once it's complete and I get my bills paid off, I will be ordering the parts for the AV800. When Anthony has his 1kW avialable for sale I will buy that as well. I'm just getting into DIY audio, but have always loved electronics for all of my life. I particularly love designing and building my own circuits and will definately be going back to college so I'll have an EE degree as well as an EET degree. I hope, to someday design as well as Anthony and others. Doing what Anthony does is HARD work, so please leave him alone. You try designing high power, high quality amplifiers and see how it is. A simple silkscreen error is too much to complain about when you have the personal responsibility of designing a complex power amplifier. I love how it has differential inputs, the fact everything is labeled on the silkscreen which makes things so easy, and the detailed construction manual to go along with it. jwb's DAC wasn't that easily assembled, but why complain when you get a good quality circuit for free, free help and support is offered, and the fact you have the satisfaction of building it yourself. jwb's DAC was a challenge for me, but I'm glad it was, because that is the fun of DIY electronics. That is the fun of electronics in general, and that is why you ordered Anthony's PCBs in the first place.
Anyway, that is enough of my rant.
My question is about parts. First of all, I plan on using volume control on the input of the AV800. I ordered two PCBs for stereo. Since there are differential inputs, this is perfect for jwb's DAC because the outputs are differential outputs as well. For now, what I would prefer to do is use a ganged potentiometer for volume control. Since I'll have 4 inputs to this amplifier (L+, L-, R+, R-), where would be a good, but cheap supplier in the US for a ganged potentiometer with 4 variable resistors?Secondly, the heatsinks. Where in the US would be the best supplier? For the rest of my parts I plan on using digi-key, mouser, newark, and arrow. I'm sure I should be able to get basically everything.
Thanks.
Getting good heatsinks for a reasonable price is a quest in
it's self
I would do a forum search and collect data.
http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/products/index.shtml
http://www.r-theta.com
http://www.mmmetals.com./
http://www.accelthermal.com/
http://www.vepinc.com/
http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp...6&prodid=ACS1395&page=1&cri=heat+sink&stype=3
http://www.surplussales.com/Heatsinks/HeatSinkIndex.html
http://www.conradheatsinks.com/prices.html
hehe
http://www.warp2search.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13396
Archives re: heatsinks
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21888
Nice chassis/heatsink design.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=94427#post94427
Electronic Suppliers
http://www.meci.com/
http://www.mpja.com/
http://www.allelectronics.com/
http://www.donberg.ie/warehs/pgroup14.htm
http://www.audioelectronicsupply.com/
http://www.brigarelectronics.com/
http://www.electronicsic.com/Default.htm
http://www.suburban-elect.com/
http://www.alltronics.com/
http://www.excess-solutions.com/
http://www.homegrownaudio.com/index.html
http://www.goldmine-elec.com/
http://www.welbornelabs.com/parts.htm
http://www.canakit.com
http://www.sealelectronics.com/
it's self
I would do a forum search and collect data.
http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/products/index.shtml
http://www.r-theta.com
http://www.mmmetals.com./
http://www.accelthermal.com/
http://www.vepinc.com/
http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp...6&prodid=ACS1395&page=1&cri=heat+sink&stype=3
http://www.surplussales.com/Heatsinks/HeatSinkIndex.html
http://www.conradheatsinks.com/prices.html
hehe
http://www.warp2search.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13396
Archives re: heatsinks
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21888
Nice chassis/heatsink design.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=94427#post94427
Electronic Suppliers
http://www.meci.com/
http://www.mpja.com/
http://www.allelectronics.com/
http://www.donberg.ie/warehs/pgroup14.htm
http://www.audioelectronicsupply.com/
http://www.brigarelectronics.com/
http://www.electronicsic.com/Default.htm
http://www.suburban-elect.com/
http://www.alltronics.com/
http://www.excess-solutions.com/
http://www.homegrownaudio.com/index.html
http://www.goldmine-elec.com/
http://www.welbornelabs.com/parts.htm
http://www.canakit.com
http://www.sealelectronics.com/
Well, I finally started assembly of the AV800, and all I'm missing is the 0R22 3W resistors, the MJE340, the 2SC and 2SA devices, the silpad for thermal conductivity and electrical insulation to the heat sinks, and the large heat sink for the output devices. I'm having r-theta.com build me a custom heatsink for the output devices. this is just for the one AV800 PCB, I'll start assembling the second one once I get the first one operating the way it should. Also, the power supply might give me a bit of a problem. The toroid with 65V secondaries gives me 72V unloaded. The secondaries are rated forv 15A each. What I'm concerned with are the filter capacitors on the power supply and the electrolytic caps on the output stage of the amplifier. Both are rated for 100V as per the schematic in the construction manual. 72Vrms is 101Vp which might cause the caps to explode. Also, by mistake, I used 10k bleeder resistors on the rails instead of the 4.7k that was reccomended in the text. 10k was in the schematic. I can use resistors in series with the secondary and the AV800 to drop voltage or order a new transformer. The transformer has a 117V primary and 2x 65V secondaries. My mains are 117V measured with a volt meter, but 72V on the secondary unloaded. That's 101Vp which might pop the caps. Any cheap solutions other than doing a whole other PCB design for the power supply and getting 250V 20,000uf caps for it and 200V or 250V caps for the output stage?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Dear Anthony,
I hv asked u about n channel in 1999. U hv nicely responded with ur articles for my reference. I don't understand what happened that people now talking about u. I felt very bad. I know that u r a nice guy & with helping nature. There r good & bad people in the world. If u meet some bad people doesn't mean that is end of the world. U must hv also met nice people. This is part of life.
We really appreciate ur nice work for DIY community as a whole.
Be cool & happy,
with best wish & regards
Mahendra Palesha
I hv asked u about n channel in 1999. U hv nicely responded with ur articles for my reference. I don't understand what happened that people now talking about u. I felt very bad. I know that u r a nice guy & with helping nature. There r good & bad people in the world. If u meet some bad people doesn't mean that is end of the world. U must hv also met nice people. This is part of life.
We really appreciate ur nice work for DIY community as a whole.
Be cool & happy,
with best wish & regards
Mahendra Palesha
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