[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]Toshiba Power transistors based on original Hiraga design
[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]so no cheating there - only "BASED ON ORIGINAL DESIGN"
If sounds crap - could be changed to smth else, if got no luck there than need to go for smth else.
I`ve got some more [/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]q[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]uestions in post #719, would be grateful for [/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]c[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]oment[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]s[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond] [/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]so no cheating there - only "BASED ON ORIGINAL DESIGN"
If sounds crap - could be changed to smth else, if got no luck there than need to go for smth else.
I`ve got some more [/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]q[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]uestions in post #719, would be grateful for [/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]c[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]oment[/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond]s[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Book Antiqua, Garamond] [/FONT]
Hello to all Monster lovers
What do you think about this KIT:
15W pure sound Class A amplifer kit Hiraga ! - eBay (item 220712678031 end time Mar-17-11 17:39:53 PDT)
it seems like all transistors are original and it worth attention?
will this amp match my acoustics: 3-Way Classic
(moderate listening levels, room below 20sq.m.)
Is it possible to get solid low end on Metallica or King Crimson for example ?
The original output transistors were coloured in black and green. [This special color coding made it easy for Toshiba to also sell NPN/PNP sets with the same number stamped on them; these were used for example in Kaneda sets]. These in the kit are molded all black. Evidently not the same old stock then. But new production? Could be.
Le Monstre will deliver any solid BASS you like, I have once demoed mine on big 2 meter high Magneplanars. The soundstage - very dependent on the low frequencies - was superb (Jazz in the pawnshop tracks). With 90db it should work - even with the vented box. I use it on 87 db speakers.
I think those transistors (Toshiba) specially made to MCM electronics.
The store order them from Toshiba.
You can go to MCM electronics site and you can get them!
I don't think any specialty on these parts, that is why Toshiba no longer produce them just for order large quantity.
I got from MCM 100's of pairs.
There are a lot of good transistor on the market out perform these old Toshiba's!
Sanken has some great parts,also Sanyo to but you can use ON semi etc.
You just need to do some test.
I had the orig Hiraga transistors from NEC, nothing special. ON semi MJ15022/23 >24/25 out perform them with MJ11031/32>33/34 drivers!
I did tested!
Huge sound improvement with the ON semi transistors.
I'm now only interested on the Le Mostre mosfet version. To me the transistor version to dry.. To precise (cold, clinical transistor sound)
I'm more after tube like sound.. Some mosfet can deliver better sound.. After my ear!
Greetings
The store order them from Toshiba.
You can go to MCM electronics site and you can get them!
I don't think any specialty on these parts, that is why Toshiba no longer produce them just for order large quantity.
I got from MCM 100's of pairs.
There are a lot of good transistor on the market out perform these old Toshiba's!
Sanken has some great parts,also Sanyo to but you can use ON semi etc.
You just need to do some test.
I had the orig Hiraga transistors from NEC, nothing special. ON semi MJ15022/23 >24/25 out perform them with MJ11031/32>33/34 drivers!
I did tested!
Huge sound improvement with the ON semi transistors.
I'm now only interested on the Le Mostre mosfet version. To me the transistor version to dry.. To precise (cold, clinical transistor sound)
I'm more after tube like sound.. Some mosfet can deliver better sound.. After my ear!
Greetings
my goodness...
I was thinking (reading) that this amp have very warm sound, close to tubelike. Your opinion seem to be controversial. Now even more confused
and thanks for your information about transistors.
My le monstre can sound as sweet and delicate as can be on one day and terrible on the next. It can be a temperamental thing but when it sings it does so extraordinarily well. So I'm not very surprised at the different opinions. The one thing that makes this amp so special for me is the sense of space and depth of the soundstage it can create in the bass. I love it and i hate it.
regards,
Joris
Nice Kit ?
Dear Android,
Thank you for your information about this kit. I would like to try to give you my opinion.
Everything is said on Hiraga's Le Monstre in "Audiophile, n°27, 29, 31 and more, and you can find it here : The Class-A Amplifier Site - Jean Hiraga Index.
But it's very long to read, and not translate . Twitter time !
Just a point first . Hiraga was looking for two goals :
- building a solid state amp, closest to 300B, with its typical distorsion spectrum, and driving hard-to-drive speakers.
- getting the highest S/N ratio, using lead battery supply.
So if you're looking for watts and ultra-low distorsion amp, it's not the good project !
Now the kit !
- the genuine Fets are Toshiba 2SK170/2SJ74 "Y" grade. I got some and tested them : the closest grade for them now is the "GR". The kit is offering "BL". You'll easily find on the web matched pairs of "GR", it's cheap.
- the following BP of the cascode are Hitachi 2SA872/2SC1775 "E" grade. This is the grade we can see on the picture. Are they matched ? Same thing, matched pairs are easy to find.
- the driver pair is Hitachi 2SB716/2SD756. No spec of grade, it can be "D" or "E". Here, it's "C" and "D" : strange. But matched pairs are easy and cheap to find on the web
- NOW : the Power Trans ! Hiraga tested dozens of them. Finally, he choose the Toshiba 2SD844/2SB754. They were a few grade :"K,L,M,N,O" but "only K et L grade (2SD844K et 2SB754L) can be suitable", which means an Hfe between 70 and 90. You'll find below a picture of these original trans
, but i'm afraid you won't find them in real life... Nowadays, Toshiba has changed for the black and green series, only "O" and "Y" grades. "Y" is out of range, but with "O" you may get closer to the original Hfe. On the kit, it's "O" grade...
Well, you'll find as many "genuine" Le Monstre as DIYers, each version sounding better than the other...
But if you are looking for someting close to Hiraga's Amp, with its strange power and sweet bass and pure highs, if there is no fake, if you've got 27$ to risk : why not.
Note : I've bought a softstart kit on this ebaystore, everything was conform to the picture.
Hope i have helped.
Dear Android,
Thank you for your information about this kit. I would like to try to give you my opinion.
Everything is said on Hiraga's Le Monstre in "Audiophile, n°27, 29, 31 and more, and you can find it here : The Class-A Amplifier Site - Jean Hiraga Index.
But it's very long to read, and not translate . Twitter time !
Just a point first . Hiraga was looking for two goals :
- building a solid state amp, closest to 300B, with its typical distorsion spectrum, and driving hard-to-drive speakers.
- getting the highest S/N ratio, using lead battery supply.
So if you're looking for watts and ultra-low distorsion amp, it's not the good project !
Now the kit !
- the genuine Fets are Toshiba 2SK170/2SJ74 "Y" grade. I got some and tested them : the closest grade for them now is the "GR". The kit is offering "BL". You'll easily find on the web matched pairs of "GR", it's cheap.
- the following BP of the cascode are Hitachi 2SA872/2SC1775 "E" grade. This is the grade we can see on the picture. Are they matched ? Same thing, matched pairs are easy to find.
- the driver pair is Hitachi 2SB716/2SD756. No spec of grade, it can be "D" or "E". Here, it's "C" and "D" : strange. But matched pairs are easy and cheap to find on the web
- NOW : the Power Trans ! Hiraga tested dozens of them. Finally, he choose the Toshiba 2SD844/2SB754. They were a few grade :"K,L,M,N,O" but "only K et L grade (2SD844K et 2SB754L) can be suitable", which means an Hfe between 70 and 90. You'll find below a picture of these original trans
, but i'm afraid you won't find them in real life... Nowadays, Toshiba has changed for the black and green series, only "O" and "Y" grades. "Y" is out of range, but with "O" you may get closer to the original Hfe. On the kit, it's "O" grade...Well, you'll find as many "genuine" Le Monstre as DIYers, each version sounding better than the other...
But if you are looking for someting close to Hiraga's Amp, with its strange power and sweet bass and pure highs, if there is no fake, if you've got 27$ to risk : why not.
Note : I've bought a softstart kit on this ebaystore, everything was conform to the picture.
Hope i have helped.
Last edited:
Supernatural
Thank for your quick help.
On my side, i am not penetrating enough to detect fakes just looking at a picture.
I usually use a curve tracer.
Rgds
PY
Thank for your quick help.
On my side, i am not penetrating enough to detect fakes just looking at a picture.
I usually use a curve tracer.
Rgds
PY
I do not want to protect MCM electronics.
Do you think a big company like that sell fake transistors, all do what we see on the picture I'm not sure is from MCM electronics.
Cant be fake!
To me Hiraga Class A sound much tube like with the same power supply than the Le Monstre.
The sound of the amp depend a lot on the parts U use, wires , PS etc.
I built one Le Monste with good components, I do not want one more.
In one word not my cup of tea.
But still I'll give a try to the mosfet version.
Ask Daniel why He chose the Class A over the Le Monste.
I'm sure not just only he did that..
Greeting gabor
Do you think a big company like that sell fake transistors, all do what we see on the picture I'm not sure is from MCM electronics.
Cant be fake!
To me Hiraga Class A sound much tube like with the same power supply than the Le Monstre.
The sound of the amp depend a lot on the parts U use, wires , PS etc.
I built one Le Monste with good components, I do not want one more.
In one word not my cup of tea.
But still I'll give a try to the mosfet version.
Ask Daniel why He chose the Class A over the Le Monste.
I'm sure not just only he did that..
Greeting gabor
Thanks everybody for your replies !
I dont need watts and Db`s cause I`ve already got them.
I want some warm but clean and detailed sound with solid bass but not fatiguing.
think I should try it.
I know Daniels opinion on Hiragas amps, cause I`ve read the whole topic
Gabor, I`ve seen Monster kit specially for you – mosfet version
2 X CLASS A POWER AMP KIT - BASED ON HIRAGA LE MONSTRE - eBay (item 380249226846 end time Mar-04-11 19:24:22 PST)
I dont need watts and Db`s cause I`ve already got them.
I want some warm but clean and detailed sound with solid bass but not fatiguing.
think I should try it.
I know Daniels opinion on Hiragas amps, cause I`ve read the whole topic
Gabor, I`ve seen Monster kit specially for you – mosfet version
2 X CLASS A POWER AMP KIT - BASED ON HIRAGA LE MONSTRE - eBay (item 380249226846 end time Mar-04-11 19:24:22 PST)
- Oscar, can you be so kind to give me your PSU schematics? It must be perfect for newbie cause easy
- Is any DC speaker protection needed (no cap on output) or it will affect sound badly ?
- Will this work with 50kohm ALPS directly from CD or pramp needed ?
I see this the schema with 2N3055/MJ2955 power output transistors - not MOSFET.Gabor, I`ve seen Monster kit specially for you – mosfet version
2 X CLASS A POWER AMP KIT - BASED ON HIRAGA LE MONSTRE - eBay (item 380249226846 end time Mar-04-11 19:24:22 PST)
The output pair of the other kit uses Toshiba 2SD844/2SB754 transistors with a higher amplification factor - and more linear (stable) with current.
For an equal price this would be better I think.
Regarding the sound: the original schema 'produces' quite some 2nd harmonic (0,2% in my setting). This is nice on the ear. I once increased the feedback with 7 db to get a 10x amplification (to match with another amplifier I have), but the sound became harsher, less tube-like. I looked into the matter and saw that the second harmonics were indeed lowered now too, but third harmonic was slightly visible. Not the tube-like sound anymore!. So my advise: stick to the original components, an equal open-loop amplification. This works, even if it has re-produced components, but devices in the specification range. Just changing output transistors is a risk I personally won't take!
In general, a bit of 2nd harmonic can be likened to the sound of a tube. This Monstre will give the finest details too.
albert
I purchased hundreds of kits from MCM electronics , I sold them on Ebay not one complain.
When MCM run out from Toshiba they ordered min 1000pair or 10 000pair from Toshiba.
I have no interest to protect MCM!
I got all positive feedback on the kit I sold.???
Toshiba has plant in other countries not just Japan!
Otherwise I do not care about the Le Monstre only I want to try the mosfet version.
I do not like the sound of the transistor Le Monstre, to me Class A sound more tube like.
I do not say is bad amplifier! Only to me Class A sounded better.
Highly unlikely (out of question).
I like smart people, did you ask at least MCM or Toshiba or just you write your opinion to make upset peoples with your "OPINION"???
Greetings Gabor
When MCM run out from Toshiba they ordered min 1000pair or 10 000pair from Toshiba.
I have no interest to protect MCM!
I got all positive feedback on the kit I sold.???
Toshiba has plant in other countries not just Japan!
Otherwise I do not care about the Le Monstre only I want to try the mosfet version.
I do not like the sound of the transistor Le Monstre, to me Class A sound more tube like.
I do not say is bad amplifier! Only to me Class A sounded better.
Highly unlikely (out of question).
I like smart people, did you ask at least MCM or Toshiba or just you write your opinion to make upset peoples with your "OPINION"???
Greetings Gabor
Hi Guys,
I had good results with a Sanken out put stage - the amp was fast enough that the input lead in the test setup made a difference in rise time and stability.
Le monstre testing Round 2 :: 000.jpg picture by danw1million - Photobucket
For my taste le monstre has excellent sound however you need moderately sensitive speakers to make it sing in a medium to large room. I you have a good room and speakers the monstre is an excellent amp.
It will be easy to tell if the transistors are genuine or suitable.
The amp will have no problem at 100kHz and will continue to work with decreasing output until 1MHz or so with no filter.
Currently I am using Le class A as it suits my speakers and taste better.
One thing I will mention. both amps are quite temperature dependant.
the le class a especially, bias and dc offset are affected by thermal equilibrium.
I have noticed the sound is alot better at thermal equilibrium which is an hour or more with a good heat sink. If you are operating these amps with the circuit board in free air the first thing i would do is shield the pcbs from air movement you can blow ari on the pcb and watch the dc offset change etc etc. not a problem if it is in a case.
the DC offset can be below 20mV easily with out too much fine adjustment.
any how, my only advice is build either one an listen to the music. they are both good performing amplifiers.
I have compared them with JLH 1996 version (the good one with no output cap), F5, various tube amps, various commercial class AB amps, Quad current dumping, Denon etc.
They have a unique sound and they do not fatigue the ears of the listener.
a recent listening session with le class A discussed here(i probably should post it in the Le class A thread):
AmpFest 2010-11 Down Under • DIY Audio Projects Forum
happy reading... I am not in the pics but i am younger than the other guys there (31 yesterday) most of the music played was not to my taste but it does not hurt to listen to different material especially when it is recorded well.
any how enough rambling from me.
-Dan
I had good results with a Sanken out put stage - the amp was fast enough that the input lead in the test setup made a difference in rise time and stability.
Le monstre testing Round 2 :: 000.jpg picture by danw1million - Photobucket
For my taste le monstre has excellent sound however you need moderately sensitive speakers to make it sing in a medium to large room. I you have a good room and speakers the monstre is an excellent amp.
It will be easy to tell if the transistors are genuine or suitable.
The amp will have no problem at 100kHz and will continue to work with decreasing output until 1MHz or so with no filter.
Currently I am using Le class A as it suits my speakers and taste better.
One thing I will mention. both amps are quite temperature dependant.
the le class a especially, bias and dc offset are affected by thermal equilibrium.
I have noticed the sound is alot better at thermal equilibrium which is an hour or more with a good heat sink. If you are operating these amps with the circuit board in free air the first thing i would do is shield the pcbs from air movement you can blow ari on the pcb and watch the dc offset change etc etc. not a problem if it is in a case.
the DC offset can be below 20mV easily with out too much fine adjustment.
any how, my only advice is build either one an listen to the music. they are both good performing amplifiers.
I have compared them with JLH 1996 version (the good one with no output cap), F5, various tube amps, various commercial class AB amps, Quad current dumping, Denon etc.
They have a unique sound and they do not fatigue the ears of the listener.
a recent listening session with le class A discussed here(i probably should post it in the Le class A thread):
AmpFest 2010-11 Down Under • DIY Audio Projects Forum
happy reading... I am not in the pics but i am younger than the other guys there (31 yesterday
) most of the music played was not to my taste but it does not hurt to listen to different material especially when it is recorded well.any how enough rambling from me.
-Dan
I don't understand,
the "Le monstre" IS running class A, or at least that's what I thought.Best regards
Ebbe
It is needed to obbey schematic and currents
I have made a try last year, and reducing current the third harmonic increased a lot...and this sounds clear....i give up because of that...original is too much hot...and if we modify, then sounds bad.... difference when third harmonic increased is too much clear not to perceive.
regards,
Carlos
I have made a try last year, and reducing current the third harmonic increased a lot...and this sounds clear....i give up because of that...original is too much hot...and if we modify, then sounds bad.... difference when third harmonic increased is too much clear not to perceive.
regards,
Carlos