Yes, 15".ttan98 said:
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/beta-15a.pdf
Qes = 0.63, Qts = 0.58
I bought them for an OB project when I thought I'd have a different room. Now I'm going down another path. I have 8 all in unopened boxes.ttan98 said:
Email to follow.
Hola Al,AJ said:hey Brett
Sounds pretty good from here.
Any idea how the MTM part is going to work out? I think I'm gonna buy another two pair of 170s and just give it a shot. I'm a little concerned about the distance between the mids, but I'm not much of an audiophile so it probably won't bother me.
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12126
Project was inspired by these, and it seens to work for him in an otherwise well thought out design. My C-C distances will be closer for all drivers..
Mine will be a rectangular box a bit deeper than those. The second pair will look closer to Jack's, but more of a hybrid. I'll get my sketches scanned. Too lazy to do CAD.
Ear versus amplifier power
Hey guys, that amount of power isn't as extravagent as it sounds. For instance: "It takes 10x amplifier power for every 2x to the ear." So, to get twice as loud as 1 watt, it takes 10 watts. Then, twice as loud as 10 watts is 100 watts. Sure enough, twice as loud as 100 watts is 1000 watts.
And, consider if the amplifier in use isn't a "soft clip" type. In that case, headroom for "live sound" dynamics does take at least 1000 watts.
Since most CDs aren't recorded with live dynamics, the cure for the compression of their sound is either an artificial expander like Aphex or just use highly efficient (overreactive) speakers.
Doing this job with speakers is cleanest.
I don't believe that its required to combine highly efficient speakers with 1000 watt amplifiers, but that is a sure-fire way to get the job done without distortions.
The smaller scale alternative plan for live dynamics is to combine a soft-clip amplifier, like a Tripath (see 41hz.com), with an Aphex. Computer guru's will recognize it by another name, which is X-Fi Crystalizer. This equipment is some trouble in keeping the signal path clean. If the amp is handmade, it requires a quality DC blocking cap (or circuit) with a load on both sides of the cap, plus a pot (or an in-series resistor and yet another load onto the source input to the amp). That stuff is usually omitted from DIY designs, so I thought I should mention it in case someone runs into trouble. Anyway, there are small scale equipment options for live dynamics.
EDIT: I got to thinking. Ut oh! Since the Tripath amps can handle stout loads for speakers, some 4 ohm speakers come to mind. Here in the U.S., Dayton's 12" SDVC woofer can do 96db at 1 watt, and the little 4 ohm 6" classic sheilded can get up to 91db. That's almost a perfect match, especially if you aim the baffle step point (width of cabinet) right at the crossover point.
Or, the sturdier amplifier versions let you use 3x of 8 ohm speakers per channel--just stack them up.
Hey guys, that amount of power isn't as extravagent as it sounds. For instance: "It takes 10x amplifier power for every 2x to the ear." So, to get twice as loud as 1 watt, it takes 10 watts. Then, twice as loud as 10 watts is 100 watts. Sure enough, twice as loud as 100 watts is 1000 watts.
And, consider if the amplifier in use isn't a "soft clip" type. In that case, headroom for "live sound" dynamics does take at least 1000 watts.
Since most CDs aren't recorded with live dynamics, the cure for the compression of their sound is either an artificial expander like Aphex or just use highly efficient (overreactive) speakers.
Doing this job with speakers is cleanest.
I don't believe that its required to combine highly efficient speakers with 1000 watt amplifiers, but that is a sure-fire way to get the job done without distortions.
The smaller scale alternative plan for live dynamics is to combine a soft-clip amplifier, like a Tripath (see 41hz.com), with an Aphex. Computer guru's will recognize it by another name, which is X-Fi Crystalizer. This equipment is some trouble in keeping the signal path clean. If the amp is handmade, it requires a quality DC blocking cap (or circuit) with a load on both sides of the cap, plus a pot (or an in-series resistor and yet another load onto the source input to the amp). That stuff is usually omitted from DIY designs, so I thought I should mention it in case someone runs into trouble.
Anyway, there are small scale equipment options for live dynamics.EDIT: I got to thinking. Ut oh! Since the Tripath amps can handle stout loads for speakers, some 4 ohm speakers come to mind. Here in the U.S., Dayton's 12" SDVC woofer can do 96db at 1 watt, and the little 4 ohm 6" classic sheilded can get up to 91db. That's almost a perfect match, especially if you aim the baffle step point (width of cabinet) right at the crossover point.
Or, the sturdier amplifier versions let you use 3x of 8 ohm speakers per channel--just stack them up.
Re: Ear versus amplifier power
High power in not neccessary with HE speakers.
I'm fully aware of this, but will add that having designed, built and used HE speakers for a number of years, at peak SPLs that were harmful to my neighbours, I was never using more than a few watts and this was in a huge open plan room. This was measured at the terminals via soundcard.danielwritesbac said:
High power in not neccessary with HE speakers.
AJ said:hey Brett
Sounds pretty good from here.
Any idea how the MTM part is going to work out? I think I'm gonna buy another two pair of 170s and just give it a shot. I'm a little concerned about the distance between the mids, but I'm not much of an audiophile so it probably won't bother me.
- I really like these hemp cone Lil' buddy 10's - but you have to remove the dust cap and add a simple phase plug for to realize potential. They are more sensitive (like 6 db in low mid) then the PR170, go lower and have similar presence but better tone. They are also cheaper.. A pair a side would be better then 4 Audax imo. Main problem - they don't go as high as PR170 but a pair should be fine to 2.5KMike - thanks for the rec. Those do look great on paper and that Qts of .84 is just asking for OB. I was looking at 10's all last week and never saw these. I'd really like to be able to cross the Warrior line lower and if nothing else, maybe bring the 170s in @ 6-700hz after the Buddys. Lotsa room to play there.
BTW - I've got the BMS 4540 in the DDS waveguide right now. I'm liking it ALOT with the 170s, but I'm not too keen on the adapters I bought - they add an extra inch of throat, which makes absolutely no sense to me, and I think it's causing some extra loading around ~2-5khz. It's making it hard to filter. I've got a really wideband parallel notch filter (1.5mh L, 3uf C and 20ohm R) in that's almost got it flattened when measured inside the WG, but it doesn't stay put by the time I get to the listening position. Still sounds great, but I don't understand what's happening. If I never looked at the measurements, I'd never even worry about it.
I'm gonna make some new MDF adapters that'll let me get the drivers right up to the throat of the WG and see if it makes a difference.
BTW - I've got the BMS 4540 in the DDS waveguide right now. I'm liking it ALOT with the 170s, but I'm not too keen on the adapters I bought - they add an extra inch of throat, which makes absolutely no sense to me, and I think it's causing some extra loading around ~2-5khz. It's making it hard to filter. I've got a really wideband parallel notch filter (1.5mh L, 3uf C and 20ohm R) in that's almost got it flattened when measured inside the WG, but it doesn't stay put by the time I get to the listening position. Still sounds great, but I don't understand what's happening. If I never looked at the measurements, I'd never even worry about it.
I'm gonna make some new MDF adapters that'll let me get the drivers right up to the throat of the WG and see if it makes a difference.
AJ said:Mike - thanks for the rec. Those do look great on paper and that Qts of .84 is just asking for OB. I was looking at 10's all last week and never saw these. I'd really like to be able to cross the Warrior line lower and if nothing else, maybe bring the 170s in @ 6-700hz after the Buddys. Lotsa room to play there.
BTW - I've got the BMS 4540 in the DDS waveguide right now. I'm liking it ALOT with the 170s, but I'm not too keen on the adapters I bought - they add an extra inch of throat, which makes absolutely no sense to me, and I think it's causing some extra loading around ~2-5khz. It's making it hard to filter. I've got a really wideband parallel notch filter (1.5mh L, 3uf C and 20ohm R) in that's almost got it flattened when measured inside the WG, but it doesn't stay put by the time I get to the listening position. Still sounds great, but I don't understand what's happening. If I never looked at the measurements, I'd never even worry about it.
I'm gonna make some new MDF adapters that'll let me get the drivers right up to the throat of the WG and see if it makes a difference.
I have a like new (one's never even been used) matched pair of Emilar EC320C's that will work well in those horns. I imagine the crossover will still be tricky though. They are a 3" aluminum diaphragm with a short 2" exit. The surround is Mylar. One of the best large format drivers made IMHO. I'd like to get 300 out of the pair.
ttan...could get it cheaper local, but this is the driver you are looking for:
www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-828
www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-828
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