Finally the Phono End in the chassie GX388 Hi-Fi2000 got at the www.audiokit.it
Attachments
"The result is incredible. I suggest this project only if you have a very good amplifier."
- i like the simplicity. i couldn't have designed it but could build a copy only i don't know what you consider to be a "very good amp" or if my humble Fi 2a3's would qualify?
"Output impedance and level to drive any final amplifier without a pre-amp."
- is the intent to use a passive preamp between it and the power amp for attenuation?
- i like the simplicity. i couldn't have designed it but could build a copy only i don't know what you consider to be a "very good amp" or if my humble Fi 2a3's would qualify?
"Output impedance and level to drive any final amplifier without a pre-amp."
- is the intent to use a passive preamp between it and the power amp for attenuation?
The RIAA plot is very near to the ideal
last photos here
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/Phono/pre-PhonoEnd.html
last photos here
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/Phono/pre-PhonoEnd.html
cost no object is not equal to no compromise
Ciao, Andrea!
Did you see my RPA?
http://www.tubeaudio.8m.com/Rpa/rpa.html
A friend named it Reference PreAmplifier. He's got marketing skills, obviously.
To me, it was the end of creativity. I have not succeed in building anything better. I will keep trying, but I am currently too busy with life to get to it.
BUT I NEVER EVER THOUGHT OF IT AS NO COMPROMISE WHATSOEVER.
I am very proud of my designs, and understand that other people are proud as well... but there is proud and there is prejudice... and vanity. Complimenti per il tuo preamplificatore... pero un po di modestia ci vorrebbe.
To come to the point, the preamplifier is costly indeed, unless you salvaged the parts. As a friend of mine put it some time ago when he saw my (at the time new and interesting) 19 inch wide LCD monitor, bought at a very reasonable price (less than one would imagine, when prices begun to fall): "did you actually loose the 300 EURO while you were stealing it from the shop?". So, unless you stole those from the shop, they are costly.
But, the choice of transformers instead of caps is not a "no compromise" solution, but a "cost no object" solution. And to that regard, I've seen far more fancy or costly solutions...
Thank you for sharing, and the best wishes to you.
Regards,
Alex
Ciao, Andrea!
Did you see my RPA?
http://www.tubeaudio.8m.com/Rpa/rpa.html
A friend named it Reference PreAmplifier. He's got marketing skills, obviously.
To me, it was the end of creativity. I have not succeed in building anything better. I will keep trying, but I am currently too busy with life to get to it.
BUT I NEVER EVER THOUGHT OF IT AS NO COMPROMISE WHATSOEVER.
I am very proud of my designs, and understand that other people are proud as well... but there is proud and there is prejudice... and vanity. Complimenti per il tuo preamplificatore... pero un po di modestia ci vorrebbe.
To come to the point, the preamplifier is costly indeed, unless you salvaged the parts. As a friend of mine put it some time ago when he saw my (at the time new and interesting) 19 inch wide LCD monitor, bought at a very reasonable price (less than one would imagine, when prices begun to fall): "did you actually loose the 300 EURO while you were stealing it from the shop?". So, unless you stole those from the shop, they are costly.
But, the choice of transformers instead of caps is not a "no compromise" solution, but a "cost no object" solution. And to that regard, I've seen far more fancy or costly solutions...
Thank you for sharing, and the best wishes to you.
Regards,
Alex
Dear Andrea, this is a commercial statement. It is true that you are Italian
and it is obvious that you read a lot of Italian hi-fi magazines (Fedelta del Suono, se esiste ancora, e simili). I used to be like you in that regard, and used to believe.Than I learned who to design, and it was an enlightenment
I do not have to spend 1000 EUR to compete with Audionote-Schmaudionote. I can do it for peanuts, because I am building a one and only piece for myself.You should get commercial, if you are not already. Maybe with the right advertisement you really will compete with Audionote top serie, quelli da "svariati milioni di lire" -- pardon, svariate decina di migliaia di euro, spesi bene, senza dubbio!
Regards,
Alex
I mean that if someone give you the parts, i.e. transformers for free, than it's the same material effort as buying for peanuts on the flea market.
Furthermore, if some are willing to donate, things get even better.
I hope I made myself clear. I just try to draw a clean line between amateurism as contribution to the diy or audiophile community without material interest, and sponsored contributions.
It's one thing to spend 1000 EUR on a diy project, and quite another to make a diy project using 1000 EUR of sponsorship parts. The diyers "copying" the project will toss out of their pocket the 1000 EUR... maybe I have no real sense of perspective, living in a poor country. But I do not throw away 100 EUR if I find them on the floor...
Furthermore, if some are willing to donate, things get even better.
I hope I made myself clear. I just try to draw a clean line between amateurism as contribution to the diy or audiophile community without material interest, and sponsored contributions.
It's one thing to spend 1000 EUR on a diy project, and quite another to make a diy project using 1000 EUR of sponsorship parts. The diyers "copying" the project will toss out of their pocket the 1000 EUR... maybe I have no real sense of perspective, living in a poor country. But I do not throw away 100 EUR if I find them on the floor...
Alex,
Sponsored parts contribution? Never heard of that in 40 years in this hi-end business.
I have always bought my parts, and I'm sure Andrea has also. No one gives away Lundahl transformers, certainly not Lundahl!
Your design could be built for very little money, but many designs need expensive parts. For example, a good tube poweramp is going to be expensive just in parts cost if you want it to be very good.
Regards, Allen (Vacuum State)
Sponsored parts contribution? Never heard of that in 40 years in this hi-end business.
I have always bought my parts, and I'm sure Andrea has also. No one gives away Lundahl transformers, certainly not Lundahl!
Your design could be built for very little money, but many designs need expensive parts. For example, a good tube poweramp is going to be expensive just in parts cost if you want it to be very good.
Regards, Allen (Vacuum State)
Not that I have heard, but Andrea's page is full of banners, and there is a note beside the banners -- do not let me paraphrase, just take a look for yourself.
Frankly, I would not know. My pages are not full of hi-fi or diy banners and I have no reason to put for instance Lundahl's banners on my page (presume they would even care for that) for free: they would have to pay me in some way, let it be in parts? Otherwise, there is no point in having all those banners on your page? Or, maybe you would put them there to make your page look more serious...
What design of mine are you talking about? The RPA, for instance, with a total of 4 chokes, and a bunch of high quality caps, several tubes, all NOS RCA or similar? Well, if you source it for free, or on the flea market, or at the nearby gipsy gatherer, maybe its cheap... otherwise, try to make a calculations what would it cost you if you were buying from some of the known resellers of parts!
Or, you are implying the RH84, which can be built very cheap with salvaged parts? Maybe that means it is not a good poweramp, because the parts were salvaged? What if we make it with Lundahl trannies, or Tango, or Tamura... and other premium parts? Or maybe it does not make any sense, since we can make it with salvaged parts anyway??
Please try to clarify what are you implying -- that my designs are cheap, or not good enough... or that you need to buy expensive parts for some fan club? Because your words did not sound good, frankly.
On the other hand, the banners are there on Andrea's page for some reason, and there is an explanation which he wrote himself -- or maybe its my vivid immagination and paranoia?
Let me know...
I expect the banners are on Andrea's page because he sells these parts. And to sell things you need to show people you have them. And a banner puts the brand name right in people's faces.
I believe you have a "poor country" attutude against expensive things.
I could build your "Reference" preamp completely from parts in my junk box, or I could go crazy and buy in VISHAY resistors, chokes and power transformers from Tango and horrendously expensive NOS tubes off ebay.
But honestly, something with two plain cathode followers in the signal path doesn't excite me, and I would never bother to build it - having done almost exactly that back around 1978. I'm sure it sounds very pleasant, but for me at least, things have moved on.
Regards, Allen (Vacuum State)
I believe you have a "poor country" attutude against expensive things.
I could build your "Reference" preamp completely from parts in my junk box, or I could go crazy and buy in VISHAY resistors, chokes and power transformers from Tango and horrendously expensive NOS tubes off ebay.
But honestly, something with two plain cathode followers in the signal path doesn't excite me, and I would never bother to build it - having done almost exactly that back around 1978. I'm sure it sounds very pleasant, but for me at least, things have moved on.
Regards, Allen (Vacuum State)
Let us start with Andrea's banners:
1) There are lots of banners on his page.
2) Above the banners, there is a "disclaimer": "I don't get money from these banners but only few components to support my projects".
3) There is a link to Ebay where Andrea sells some stuff he does not need -- he does not sell there stuff acquired from the banner sources.
4) Some of the banner sources are manufacturers, I sincerely doubt Andrea is a hi-fi or hi-end dealer (?)
5) There is also a link for PayPal "Help me create new projects..."
Therefore, either the banners are there to serve the purpose mentioned in the disclaimer (that is where "some" parts come from), or the disclaimer hides
that Andrea is actually getting some money for that (knowing Kosta from KORATO, I sincerely doubt there is any money involved). Or, maybe, it is a case
of "imaging association" where the onlooker sees names like Manley, Svetlana, Lundahl... and associates immediately the proposed content with the
alegedly high quality or lavish products of the mentioned established companies.
Whichever the case, the banners are there, and that you cannot deny. And Andrea does not sell parts, as far as I have gotten to know. Therefore, please
do not try to make me look like a fool for seeing and saying aloud "that the emperor is naked".
Last but not least on this subject, Andrea "has come of age", he is a grown person, non e u minorenne, and I believe he does not need advocates to reply.
He can, of course, mention something like "the fifth amendment".
I have also built it completely from parts out of some boxes, but I do not consider those parts as junk, i.e. unwanted residues from other projects.
You have every right to your own taste or opinion, but in this case the cathode followers are three, because you should count in the line stage as well.
While I do not doubt that you built something with cathode followers back in 1978, I am quite sure the implementation was different, because at that time
the approach to cathode followers was different, and I have no reason to believe (without proof, just because you say so) in your design creativity and
innovative thinking.
Maybe you like transformers better, and that is also a prerogative of a free person. On the other hand, I do not like transformers better. I believe that
tubes work at their best without transformers, and that is particularly true for small signals where transformers can be avoided. In the large signal
game, or driving intrinsically low impedance loudspeakers, you just need transformers to keep things simple, otherwise you will have a very complicated
OTL amplifier with lots of part and reliability issues.
Transformers are there, to my belief, to simplify things, because you just need a transformer, a tube, and a cathode resistor... instead of an elaborate
circuit (yes, a CCDGC gain block is an elaborate circuit in comparison). I would gladly do without coupling caps wherever possible, but that would induce
reliability problems, and obvious problems for the DIYers (or for a manufacturer, for that matter, either in production and assembly or in post-sales
assistance).
Therefore, I do not think that Andrea's design is NO COMPROMISE. It is a compromise definitely, and a costly one. But he, or whoever else, can call it a
reference project provided it sounds real good. When it comes to the RPA, I can assure you that the sound is quite far from "pleasant" which is a nice
patronizing term in this case. And it is a compromise, like everything in life - or in electronics and physics. The perpetuum mobile has not been
invented, and never will be.
I believe that you have no idea what are you saying, actually.
1) Serbia is fortunately not a poor country, at least not economically. Our mishap is political. There is only one bridge over the Danube between
Bulgaria and Romania, and I believe their infrastructure is still not up to the roads/railroads/bridges of Serbia -- but both countries are EU members,
while Serbia is not. This does not imply that Bulgaria and Romania are poor countries.
2) I used to own very expensive equipment and mingle in circles of "very expensive equipment owner" audiophiles. Due to impoverishment caused by sanctions, wars, and simila, I had to sell my expensive audio equipment -- and basically never since bought any expensive audio equipment. I do buy neverhteless FullHD video equipment, plasmas, LCDs, etc -- but when it comes to amplification I actually prefer what I design and build. I have not yet come to loudspeakers, but that is due very soon since we are buying a new apartment (we are already apartment owners -- I hope you are as well?), large enough for our three children and us.
3) All the fun in DIY is making it yourself, and eventually getting the parts for "almost free" because you found a way to use something left unused or unwanted -- this does not mean that you cannot have fun buying Tamura, but it is much more fun making an amp with salvaged transformers!
It is therefore obvious that your patronizing implication is actually as wrong oriented as the rest of what you wrote in defense of Andrea (who probably does not need you to defend him) and in denigration of other's right not to believe without discrimination.
I hope you are fine and that you will in the future stay off my case.
Regards,
Alex
1) There are lots of banners on his page.
2) Above the banners, there is a "disclaimer": "I don't get money from these banners but only few components to support my projects".
3) There is a link to Ebay where Andrea sells some stuff he does not need -- he does not sell there stuff acquired from the banner sources.
4) Some of the banner sources are manufacturers, I sincerely doubt Andrea is a hi-fi or hi-end dealer (?)
5) There is also a link for PayPal "Help me create new projects..."
Therefore, either the banners are there to serve the purpose mentioned in the disclaimer (that is where "some" parts come from), or the disclaimer hides
that Andrea is actually getting some money for that (knowing Kosta from KORATO, I sincerely doubt there is any money involved). Or, maybe, it is a case
of "imaging association" where the onlooker sees names like Manley, Svetlana, Lundahl... and associates immediately the proposed content with the
alegedly high quality or lavish products of the mentioned established companies.
Whichever the case, the banners are there, and that you cannot deny. And Andrea does not sell parts, as far as I have gotten to know. Therefore, please
do not try to make me look like a fool for seeing and saying aloud "that the emperor is naked".
Last but not least on this subject, Andrea "has come of age", he is a grown person, non e u minorenne, and I believe he does not need advocates to reply.
He can, of course, mention something like "the fifth amendment".
I have also built it completely from parts out of some boxes, but I do not consider those parts as junk, i.e. unwanted residues from other projects.
You have every right to your own taste or opinion, but in this case the cathode followers are three, because you should count in the line stage as well.
While I do not doubt that you built something with cathode followers back in 1978, I am quite sure the implementation was different, because at that time
the approach to cathode followers was different, and I have no reason to believe (without proof, just because you say so) in your design creativity and
innovative thinking.
Maybe you like transformers better, and that is also a prerogative of a free person. On the other hand, I do not like transformers better. I believe that
tubes work at their best without transformers, and that is particularly true for small signals where transformers can be avoided. In the large signal
game, or driving intrinsically low impedance loudspeakers, you just need transformers to keep things simple, otherwise you will have a very complicated
OTL amplifier with lots of part and reliability issues.
Transformers are there, to my belief, to simplify things, because you just need a transformer, a tube, and a cathode resistor... instead of an elaborate
circuit (yes, a CCDGC gain block is an elaborate circuit in comparison). I would gladly do without coupling caps wherever possible, but that would induce
reliability problems, and obvious problems for the DIYers (or for a manufacturer, for that matter, either in production and assembly or in post-sales
assistance).
Therefore, I do not think that Andrea's design is NO COMPROMISE. It is a compromise definitely, and a costly one. But he, or whoever else, can call it a
reference project provided it sounds real good. When it comes to the RPA, I can assure you that the sound is quite far from "pleasant" which is a nice
patronizing term in this case. And it is a compromise, like everything in life - or in electronics and physics. The perpetuum mobile has not been
invented, and never will be.
I believe that you have no idea what are you saying, actually.
1) Serbia is fortunately not a poor country, at least not economically. Our mishap is political. There is only one bridge over the Danube between
Bulgaria and Romania, and I believe their infrastructure is still not up to the roads/railroads/bridges of Serbia -- but both countries are EU members,
while Serbia is not. This does not imply that Bulgaria and Romania are poor countries.
2) I used to own very expensive equipment and mingle in circles of "very expensive equipment owner" audiophiles. Due to impoverishment caused by sanctions, wars, and simila, I had to sell my expensive audio equipment -- and basically never since bought any expensive audio equipment. I do buy neverhteless FullHD video equipment, plasmas, LCDs, etc -- but when it comes to amplification I actually prefer what I design and build. I have not yet come to loudspeakers, but that is due very soon since we are buying a new apartment (we are already apartment owners -- I hope you are as well?), large enough for our three children and us.
3) All the fun in DIY is making it yourself, and eventually getting the parts for "almost free" because you found a way to use something left unused or unwanted -- this does not mean that you cannot have fun buying Tamura, but it is much more fun making an amp with salvaged transformers!
It is therefore obvious that your patronizing implication is actually as wrong oriented as the rest of what you wrote in defense of Andrea (who probably does not need you to defend him) and in denigration of other's right not to believe without discrimination.
I hope you are fine and that you will in the future stay off my case.
Regards,
Alex
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