Scottmoose said:
Hi scott.. you've only heard mine recently...
i hope you wasn't confusing that top end distortion end you heard last time from the cartridge i was (and still am) using..
i have got the distortion pretty well sorted now..
i do tend to play them at 100db + levels
and the dynamics.. at what ever frequency, come across
Lowthers, et al...
a local audio buddy has a set of Lowthers that he kinda detests...he switched in some AERs and now enjoys his Basszillas (D.O designed). His Lowthers are collecting dust in his closet. The AERs are at least triple the $800 budget
He is the same fellow that thinks my beater OB rig (Oxford J10s and Seas tweeters, and a salvaged x-overs) kicks and wouldn't be embarrassed running high end SET amps amplification.
He also let me try the 41Hz Basic6 amp on his AER /Basszillas---the little T-amp held its own, and in some ways bettered his 2A3 based, custom built and tweaked amps.
I disagree using an EQ of any sort unless it can be implemented as a stand-alone design (aka: Linkwitz electronic crossovers/equalizer/processor, etc). Having heard only one PC based x-over/processor (it was impressive), there certainly is a huge potential there, but requires a good PIO board (with good ADC and DAC implementations), and good microphones. It starts looking expensive if ya have to buy everything from scratch. I know this because I keep on trying to figure out a good set-up that is affordable for loudspeaker testing (in-situ).
milen007; maybe a set of Corals could be found and reconditioned as necessary?
stew
a local audio buddy has a set of Lowthers that he kinda detests...he switched in some AERs and now enjoys his Basszillas (D.O designed). His Lowthers are collecting dust in his closet. The AERs are at least triple the $800 budget
He is the same fellow that thinks my beater OB rig (Oxford J10s and Seas tweeters, and a salvaged x-overs) kicks and wouldn't be embarrassed running high end SET amps amplification.
He also let me try the 41Hz Basic6 amp on his AER /Basszillas---the little T-amp held its own, and in some ways bettered his 2A3 based, custom built and tweaked amps.
I disagree using an EQ of any sort unless it can be implemented as a stand-alone design (aka: Linkwitz electronic crossovers/equalizer/processor, etc). Having heard only one PC based x-over/processor (it was impressive), there certainly is a huge potential there, but requires a good PIO board (with good ADC and DAC implementations), and good microphones. It starts looking expensive if ya have to buy everything from scratch. I know this because I keep on trying to figure out a good set-up that is affordable for loudspeaker testing (in-situ).
milen007; maybe a set of Corals could be found and reconditioned as necessary?
stew
Re: Re: Re: Re: the obvious...
Hi..
what did you like about the JBL?
I would have thought (apart from the rising freq responce,) that the lowther would do much more of a detailed and life like sound,
what amps are you using?
thanks steve
milen007 said:
. I do have Enabled Lowther DX4 (for sale
Hi..
what did you like about the JBL?
I would have thought (apart from the rising freq responce,) that the lowther would do much more of a detailed and life like sound,
what amps are you using?
thanks steve
Steve
I can't aswer, sorry . I'm selling Lowthers and I'm out to hunt down more LE8's as the ones I have, developed a short VC (I know only original alnico black sprayed LE8 (not T ) as used in JBL factory speakers) so I can't advertise them too much
But yes ,Lowther DX4 is more lively and lifelike sounding. I never heard alnico Lowthers so it's not fair to knock'em all down. Years ago I heard best AR (BD3?) in Oris 150
Welborne Labs setup -boring , even Ron admitted that they might have smoothed them out a bit too much.
The amps I used :
On Lowther ,Klipshorn setup .Audio Note Quests (no joy but wonderful on jensen coax and altec biflexes)
Restored Fisher 500c (quite good) , Digital Teac amp (dreck) ,home brewed 45 based on Yamamoto design (OK) and on my friends Baszilla inspired OB's with his tweaked 300B amps .He fell in LOve with ENABL, too bad his DX4 is 16 Ohm and we can't swap.
I can't aswer, sorry . I'm selling Lowthers and I'm out to hunt down more LE8's as the ones I have, developed a short VC (I know only original alnico black sprayed LE8 (not T ) as used in JBL factory speakers) so I can't advertise them too much
But yes ,Lowther DX4 is more lively and lifelike sounding. I never heard alnico Lowthers so it's not fair to knock'em all down. Years ago I heard best AR (BD3?) in Oris 150
Welborne Labs setup -boring , even Ron admitted that they might have smoothed them out a bit too much.
The amps I used :
On Lowther ,Klipshorn setup .Audio Note Quests (no joy but wonderful on jensen coax and altec biflexes)
Restored Fisher 500c (quite good) , Digital Teac amp (dreck) ,home brewed 45 based on Yamamoto design (OK) and on my friends Baszilla inspired OB's with his tweaked 300B amps .He fell in LOve with ENABL, too bad his DX4 is 16 Ohm and we can't swap.
Re: Lowthers, et al...
Just my 2cents... I've lately put some small Lowther C45s in a Basszliia (panther-type) open baffle and they are soooo sweet. I've had or heard a few Lowther horns in the past (Big Fun, Academy, Acousta, with Pm6A, PM7A, DX3, DX4 and AER Mk1).
To my amazement, the lil 6 inch lowther in open baffles (currently run fullrange) are, up to now, my favorites. Ni honk, no shout, no irritating peaks... just fun and natural sounding. Of course, you loose in efficiency (about 94db) but it just sounds right.
Matching a 12 inch woofer below 250hz is not so hard if you bi-amp, but I'm currently looking for Richard Allan GC12 to take over the bass with similar efficiency.
Bottom line is... don't overlook the small lowthers. You do get about 90% of the performance of its larger siblings, but with 90% less of the bigger one's shout problems.
I sure would like to eventually hear the larger Basszillas...
Just my 2cents... I've lately put some small Lowther C45s in a Basszliia (panther-type) open baffle and they are soooo sweet. I've had or heard a few Lowther horns in the past (Big Fun, Academy, Acousta, with Pm6A, PM7A, DX3, DX4 and AER Mk1).
To my amazement, the lil 6 inch lowther in open baffles (currently run fullrange) are, up to now, my favorites. Ni honk, no shout, no irritating peaks... just fun and natural sounding. Of course, you loose in efficiency (about 94db) but it just sounds right.
Matching a 12 inch woofer below 250hz is not so hard if you bi-amp, but I'm currently looking for Richard Allan GC12 to take over the bass with similar efficiency.
Bottom line is... don't overlook the small lowthers. You do get about 90% of the performance of its larger siblings, but with 90% less of the bigger one's shout problems.
I sure would like to eventually hear the larger Basszillas...
Nanook said:a local audio buddy has a set of Lowthers that he kinda detests...he switched in some AERs and now enjoys his Basszillas (D.O designed). His Lowthers are collecting dust in his closet. The AERs are at least triple the $800 budget
He is the same fellow that thinks my beater OB rig (Oxford J10s and Seas tweeters, and a salvaged x-overs) kicks and wouldn't be embarrassed running high end SET amps amplification.
He also let me try the 41Hz Basic6 amp on his AER /Basszillas---the little T-amp held its own, and in some ways bettered his 2A3 based, custom built and tweaked amps.
I disagree using an EQ of any sort unless it can be implemented as a stand-alone design (aka: Linkwitz electronic crossovers/equalizer/processor, etc). Having heard only one PC based x-over/processor (it was impressive), there certainly is a huge potential there, but requires a good PIO board (with good ADC and DAC implementations), and good microphones. It starts looking expensive if ya have to buy everything from scratch. I know this because I keep on trying to figure out a good set-up that is affordable for loudspeaker testing (in-situ).
milen007; maybe a set of Corals could be found and reconditioned as necessary?
stew
limono said:Steve
I can't aswer, sorry . I'm selling Lowthers and I'm out to hunt down more LE8's as the ones I have, developed a short VC (I know only original alnico black sprayed LE8 (not T ) as used in JBL factory speakers) so I can't advertise them too much
But yes ,Lowther DX4 is more lively and lifelike sounding. I never heard alnico Lowthers so it's not fair to knock'em all down. Years ago I heard best AR (BD3?) in Oris 150
Welborne Labs setup -boring , even Ron admitted that they might have smoothed them out a bit too much.
The amps I used :
On Lowther ,Klipshorn setup .Audio Note Quests (no joy but wonderful on jensen coax and altec biflexes)
Restored Fisher 500c (quite good) , Digital Teac amp (dreck) ,home brewed 45 based on Yamamoto design (OK) and on my friends Baszilla inspired OB's with his tweaked 300B amps .He fell in LOve with ENABL, too bad his DX4 is 16 Ohm and we can't swap.
no problem, my experence it that lowthers are hard to implement
i run them in open baffle, not much more than covering upper mids/tweeters
reason i asked about the amps, is the lowthers are so revealing of poor amplification..
many amps that are very good sounding on other drivers/speakers, just can start to sound harsh connected to them
i get the feeling the speakers can get the blame, when maybe thats not the case..
i use old british globe triodes.. they do sound sweet, full bodied and fast
i've been though most of the lowther range in the past and am very happy with the ex drivers...at the moment...
I've heard some early aer's i think they where bd1, in OB.. my view was just what i would expect from a slightly weaker motor...
more hi fi sounding, less detail but a very nice smooth sound
i personally liked the lowthers there was another layer of detail
but that's was my opinion and i'm sure not all will agree..
thanks
steve
Steve
Part of the reason I don't want to go into comparison is that my Lowther is Enabled and it's really a different driver now.My originall assesment of the process was that the driver will be essentially the same but better which is of course not the case. We strayed enough from original post. I agree with you on the amplification issue.
Part of the reason I don't want to go into comparison is that my Lowther is Enabled and it's really a different driver now.My originall assesment of the process was that the driver will be essentially the same but better
which is of course not the case. We strayed enough from original post. I agree with you on the amplification issue.I could not disagree more.
As long as the amp is a competent design, then if your system sounds harsh it is the fault of the speaker enclosure or OB design. If the Lowther speaker sounds harsh the SPL response is out of balance. If an amp sounds good with one speaker design and poor with another it is the speaker system design causing this problem, not the amp. A good speaker system design should take into account the properties of the amp and any Lowther driver should work to its best capabilties with any type of decent amp in the right system design.
steve shiels said:
Indeed they do.
No, you're probably right, the cart. didn't help (at the time) -be interesting to hear it again, now you've got that new stylus. 'Dislike' was too strong a term -probably would've been better written as something like 'greatly admire what they do well, but couldn't live with them personally, long term, because my own preference is for speakers balanced to have a gradual HF roll-off.'Actually, Steve, Martin, I think you're perilously close to agreeing,
because it looks to this non-Lowther-owning outsider you're both emphasising the fact that overall system design is key, albeit approaching it from very different positions. Amplifier, speaker & room all form a combined system; ergo, they need to be optimised to each other via whatever means you personally happen to prefer, right?MJK said:
we'll thats not my experence martin
I have heard many amps and just because they are a competent design does mean they will sound realistic..
'harsh' was poor discription on my part..
lets look at another way,, if the signal from the amps is not totaly clean.. the lowthers can tend to reproduce that.. more so than many other drivers?
steve
Daze..
well just to show you how ignorant I am...
I hadn't realized the update to the Basszillas, to Leopard and Panther models with the changes to the woofers, and optimized for the Pass F1 amps. If those could be built within the budget of milen007, then I would certainly suggest those whole hearted. It almost sounds like a Mac OS upgraded operating system
I had driven the original Basszillas (my audio buddy's) with the 41Hz amp6Basic kit amp to very good effect. different than the 2A3 amps my friend has, but plenty enjoyable. A more "deLuxe" T-amp may well suit the Panthers/Leopards better. Would require some input from some who have tried them together.
I'd like to plug my own design, "the Spirit of Orion" loudspeakers as written up in Affordable$$Audio as something in the same "vein" but they are actively driven subwoofers with Jordan JX92s drivers, and not that efficient, but they can be driven by not very much power if the Jordans are freed up from frequencies below 200Hz (or so). Within milen007's budget though (I think), using perhaps some Fostex drivers.
stew
well just to show you how ignorant I am...
I hadn't realized the update to the Basszillas, to Leopard and Panther models with the changes to the woofers, and optimized for the Pass F1 amps. If those could be built within the budget of milen007, then I would certainly suggest those whole hearted. It almost sounds like a Mac OS upgraded operating system
I had driven the original Basszillas (my audio buddy's) with the 41Hz amp6Basic kit amp to very good effect. different than the 2A3 amps my friend has, but plenty enjoyable. A more "deLuxe" T-amp may well suit the Panthers/Leopards better. Would require some input from some who have tried them together.
I'd like to plug my own design, "the Spirit of Orion" loudspeakers as written up in Affordable$$Audio as something in the same "vein" but they are actively driven subwoofers with Jordan JX92s drivers, and not that efficient, but they can be driven by not very much power if the Jordans are freed up from frequencies below 200Hz (or so). Within milen007's budget though (I think), using perhaps some Fostex drivers.
stew
Re: Lowthers, et al...
Hi Stew, I think we might be talking about two different things. The thing I was referring to is simply lossless digital files played with software that has some EQ feature. No crossover, no mikes, just a free player with (in my case) a cheap outboard DAC. After getting this working on Linux, I dismantled it to try vinyl -- I think I'm going back to digital soon, for the convenience if nothing else.
Hi Stew, I think we might be talking about two different things. The thing I was referring to is simply lossless digital files played with software that has some EQ feature. No crossover, no mikes, just a free player with (in my case) a cheap outboard DAC. After getting this working on Linux, I dismantled it to try vinyl -- I think I'm going back to digital soon, for the convenience if nothing else.
(they do have limitshi guys.
i was suggested JA8008 with TW034. find little info about this discussion. just wondering if you guys has any experience with this driver. if possible, how they compare with dca 4 or 5.5?
limono, check your email. i have email you my source. but he always sells them in matched pair.
nanook, thats nice speaker with open baffle. its on my list. and leaning my option to which one i build that i can get the drivers easier.
looks like lowther has their own circle of fan. but maybe its not my league yet as a starter i do not have experience how to miss and match
Daze, lowther C45s in Basszliia (panther-type) open baffle seems good option. will learn on that.
thanks for all the inputs and keep it coming. but please help me choose as though limited to high efficiency, its still so many choices.
regards,
erwin
i was suggested JA8008 with TW034. find little info about this discussion. just wondering if you guys has any experience with this driver. if possible, how they compare with dca 4 or 5.5?
limono, check your email. i have email you my source. but he always sells them in matched pair.
nanook, thats nice speaker with open baffle. its on my list. and leaning my option to which one i build that i can get the drivers easier.
looks like lowther has their own circle of fan. but maybe its not my league yet as a starter i do not have experience how to miss and match
Daze, lowther C45s in Basszliia (panther-type) open baffle seems good option. will learn on that.
thanks for all the inputs and keep it coming. but please help me choose as though limited to high efficiency, its still so many choices.
regards,
erwin
milen007, comments about the Spirits...
The Spirits turned out very good. Nice thing is no amplifier is required to drive the subs, as they already have their own.
The fullrange drivers could be anything you want, but if sticking with OB, then something with a high"ish" Qts would be suitable (say .50+). Depending on efficiency then you can make the call on sensitivity required.
I just received a pair of DCA4s and DCA5.5s from two bald guys for review. As P10 stated, their efficiency as tested is lower than the FE series drivers.
There have been some very good suggestions in this thread. The Janzen Audio drivers may very well be what you are seeking--but they are not "fullrange". By fullrange it is implied "fullrange, single driver". The Spirits attempt to address that by using a powered sub pair to free up the main amplifier to drive the OB speakers. But without the subs the Jordans are classified as a "fullrange" driver.
The Basszillas I am familiar with are simply incredible, although a little canted towards classical, jazz, and small ensemble type music. They struggle (a tiny bit) with some hard hitting rock (like they are almost too polite).
stew
The Spirits turned out very good. Nice thing is no amplifier is required to drive the subs, as they already have their own.
The fullrange drivers could be anything you want, but if sticking with OB, then something with a high"ish" Qts would be suitable (say .50+). Depending on efficiency then you can make the call on sensitivity required.
I just received a pair of DCA4s and DCA5.5s from two bald guys for review. As P10 stated, their efficiency as tested is lower than the FE series drivers.
There have been some very good suggestions in this thread. The Janzen Audio drivers may very well be what you are seeking--but they are not "fullrange". By fullrange it is implied "fullrange, single driver". The Spirits attempt to address that by using a powered sub pair to free up the main amplifier to drive the OB speakers. But without the subs the Jordans are classified as a "fullrange" driver.
The Basszillas I am familiar with are simply incredible, although a little canted towards classical, jazz, and small ensemble type music. They struggle (a tiny bit) with some hard hitting rock (like they are almost too polite).
stew
rjbond...
er, try to contact D.O. directly. There's gotta be a pair that you can listen to.
The Merrills are not efficient enough to consider use in the Basszillas. P10 suggested they may be closer to the CSS drivers in that regard. They are relatively inexpensive, and seem of more than reasonable quality, considering their price. I am somewhat concerned regarding the basket , but that can be improved. I am hopeful that they will perform the way I think they might.
They most likely would do quite well in an open baffle as the Qts is quite high (again basing this on P10's measurements---I gotta get a speaker testing set up at my place...)
Hope that helps.
stew
er, try to contact D.O. directly. There's gotta be a pair that you can listen to.
The Merrills are not efficient enough to consider use in the Basszillas. P10 suggested they may be closer to the CSS drivers in that regard. They are relatively inexpensive, and seem of more than reasonable quality, considering their price. I am somewhat concerned regarding the basket , but that can be improved. I am hopeful that they will perform the way I think they might.
They most likely would do quite well in an open baffle as the Qts is quite high (again basing this on P10's measurements---I gotta get a speaker testing set up at my place...)
Hope that helps.
stew
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