Oh Jeez!
Whewwwwww!!!! OK, first of all, as cynical as i am, i need to confess something. I never, ever believed there was any serious interest for hi-fi in India, and didn't imagine seeing an Indian in a hi-fi forum and DEFINITELY not so many and boy by the end of thread it appears like these guys know each other (albeit in a round-about way) and looks like theyve already swapped lottsa stuff and mebbe even a coupla swigs! (i know, i know, im a CYNIC!) Anyways nice to know I've got company closeby. Well a little bout me, ive been a closet audiophile (imaginary too!) for the last 10 years maybe, never could muster enough moola for a decent sound rig and have been salivating, fantasising and drooling over old hi-fi mags (mostly HFH&RR, Stereophile) and listening to my Discman, closing my eyes and imagining it to be a rig with Mark Levinsons pumping out through Watt Puppys! Whew! Of late ive been planning to build myself a decent pair of speakers and been scouring the net for the info, when i bumped into here. Anyways I didnt go through the posts and Im sure ill get most of the info im looking for. Cheers folks!
Whewwwwww!!!! OK, first of all, as cynical as i am, i need to confess something. I never, ever believed there was any serious interest for hi-fi in India, and didn't imagine seeing an Indian in a hi-fi forum and DEFINITELY not so many and boy by the end of thread it appears like these guys know each other (albeit in a round-about way) and looks like theyve already swapped lottsa stuff and mebbe even a coupla swigs! (i know, i know, im a CYNIC!) Anyways nice to know I've got company closeby. Well a little bout me, ive been a closet audiophile (imaginary too!) for the last 10 years maybe, never could muster enough moola for a decent sound rig and have been salivating, fantasising and drooling over old hi-fi mags (mostly HFH&RR, Stereophile) and listening to my Discman, closing my eyes and imagining it to be a rig with Mark Levinsons pumping out through Watt Puppys! Whew! Of late ive been planning to build myself a decent pair of speakers and been scouring the net for the info, when i bumped into here. Anyways I didnt go through the posts and Im sure ill get most of the info im looking for. Cheers folks!
Jamshedpur etc
Ashok and Angshu
Have a couple on me when you meet! Good to know that you guys are getting together soon. Angshu, Ashok will, no doubt take you to one of the notable watering holes on the Ranchi highway-the 10th Milestone-great place, with some class parantha lawabdar! I will take you to The Only Place which has reopened here. I hear the food is good, though prices have been marked up a bit. Their Chateaubriand steak was without parallel.
Ashok Madhavan:
Look forward to meeting you on your next trip here. BTW, Venky plans to be here in summer.
Appolito:
Welcome. Joe! I have two MTM systems designed by you-the AriaR and the Audax HT system! The small group of us is like drops of rain on land parched of anything, and I am confident we will nurture this hobby.
George
Ashok and Angshu
Have a couple on me when you meet! Good to know that you guys are getting together soon. Angshu, Ashok will, no doubt take you to one of the notable watering holes on the Ranchi highway-the 10th Milestone-great place, with some class parantha lawabdar! I will take you to The Only Place which has reopened here. I hear the food is good, though prices have been marked up a bit. Their Chateaubriand steak was without parallel.
Ashok Madhavan:
Look forward to meeting you on your next trip here. BTW, Venky plans to be here in summer.
Appolito:
Welcome. Joe! I have two MTM systems designed by you-the AriaR and the Audax HT system! The small group of us is like drops of rain on land parched of anything, and I am confident we will nurture this hobby.
George
Joe D'A etc
Navin
I was just kidding!
I have exchanged emails with the real Joe D'Appolito, when I was constructing my Audax HT speaker system, though. This guy has an Indian flag, he must be a local, maybe a PIO in Australia.
Ashok/Angshu
Spelling correction-should read laccha paranthas at The 10th Milestone. As a regular Ashok will probably know the specialities if the house there far better!
George
Navin
I was just kidding!
I have exchanged emails with the real Joe D'Appolito, when I was constructing my Audax HT speaker system, though. This guy has an Indian flag, he must be a local, maybe a PIO in Australia.
Ashok/Angshu
Spelling correction-should read laccha paranthas at The 10th Milestone. As a regular Ashok will probably know the specialities if the house there far better!
George
OMG!
I cant believe ppl mistook me for Joe Appolitto! I wish I was though! Well, u guys seem to be a friendly bunch in here.
navin:
I am in India actually, going by the IP dont work ALL the time I guess.
Thank you for your interest, I am looking for the following in my speakers and would be glad for any advice you might have and possible links in this forum which might be essential to me.
Detail and imaging are of utmost importance. I would like my music to be as clean as possible. According to whatever I have read and known, the following would be the characteristics:
1. 3-way floor-stander - Preferably with a good set of drivers like Dynaudio, Scanspeak or Vifa with 150W handling and response characteristics in the range of 40Hz-22KHz. (Something under 3 foot height with the size of the drivers around 6", 4.5" and 1.5") I am basing them on reviews and feature list of speakers like the Soliloquy 5.3, the Axiom Millenia M60ti, and the Mission m35.
2. Cabinet made of 3/4" wood veneer, braced and filled with sound-absorbent. The veneer would be suitably treated to make it as non-porous as possible. The reason for not going the MDF route is that, I would like my speakers to have a nicer finish than that would be possible with MDF. Though I am not looking at matching that of Sonus Fabers, it should atleast match, say the Axioms (maybe i'm asking a lil 2 much huh?)
3. Cost is of no issue - in the sense that I dont mind spending a little more than what one might usually look at spending for a DIY 3-way floorstander.
4. The primary use for the speakers will music with the odd movie thrown in. On the other hand, I am very much interested in moving onto a DVD-Audio and SACD system in the future. Keeping this in mind, after the 3-way, I am planning to get the centers, surrounds and quite possibly the sub to built. So the 3-way should also quite fit in the role of a HT setup.
5. OK, this is the irritating bit, my musical tastes are quite varied to say the least. My fave artistes range from Tschaikovsky, Bach, Strauss, to Sepultura, Dream Theater, Led Zeppelin and Metallica with Pink Floyd, The Police, Alan Parsons Project, Eric Clapton, Blues Brothers, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, Satchmo, Bob Marley, UB40, Jarre, Vangelis, Garth Brooks, filling the gaps with a good measure of Ol' school rap, Country music thrown in. As you can see, the speakers DO NOT have their work cut out! That is the reason why I am looking for an 3-way floorstander.
Issues at hand:
1. I do not have any 3-way speaker design that I have in mind currently that I have reviews about and certainly not one that is a part of a HT system.
2.I do not know if I can source good quality drivers like the Danish ones. Also I am not sure if the quality of the components for the crossover that I can get off the shelf would be good enough.
3.The characteristics that I have stated above are the ones that I THINK should be possible and am not very sure if there are any pit-falls in them, as I have not undertaken any projects before.
PHEW! even I am tired. Sorry to make you guys go through the entire song and dance. If and when we meet up, Ill get you guys a drink!
I would deeply appreciate your valuable inputs/guidance/chiding from navin and the other. Thanks a lot guys Cheers!
I cant believe ppl mistook me for Joe Appolitto! I wish I was though! Well, u guys seem to be a friendly bunch in here.navin:
I am in India actually, going by the IP dont work ALL the time I guess.
Thank you for your interest, I am looking for the following in my speakers and would be glad for any advice you might have and possible links in this forum which might be essential to me.
Detail and imaging are of utmost importance. I would like my music to be as clean as possible. According to whatever I have read and known, the following would be the characteristics:
1. 3-way floor-stander - Preferably with a good set of drivers like Dynaudio, Scanspeak or Vifa with 150W handling and response characteristics in the range of 40Hz-22KHz. (Something under 3 foot height with the size of the drivers around 6", 4.5" and 1.5") I am basing them on reviews and feature list of speakers like the Soliloquy 5.3, the Axiom Millenia M60ti, and the Mission m35.
2. Cabinet made of 3/4" wood veneer, braced and filled with sound-absorbent. The veneer would be suitably treated to make it as non-porous as possible. The reason for not going the MDF route is that, I would like my speakers to have a nicer finish than that would be possible with MDF. Though I am not looking at matching that of Sonus Fabers, it should atleast match, say the Axioms (maybe i'm asking a lil 2 much huh?)
3. Cost is of no issue - in the sense that I dont mind spending a little more than what one might usually look at spending for a DIY 3-way floorstander.
4. The primary use for the speakers will music with the odd movie thrown in. On the other hand, I am very much interested in moving onto a DVD-Audio and SACD system in the future. Keeping this in mind, after the 3-way, I am planning to get the centers, surrounds and quite possibly the sub to built. So the 3-way should also quite fit in the role of a HT setup.
5. OK, this is the irritating bit, my musical tastes are quite varied to say the least. My fave artistes range from Tschaikovsky, Bach, Strauss, to Sepultura, Dream Theater, Led Zeppelin and Metallica with Pink Floyd, The Police, Alan Parsons Project, Eric Clapton, Blues Brothers, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, Satchmo, Bob Marley, UB40, Jarre, Vangelis, Garth Brooks, filling the gaps with a good measure of Ol' school rap, Country music thrown in. As you can see, the speakers DO NOT have their work cut out! That is the reason why I am looking for an 3-way floorstander.
Issues at hand:
1. I do not have any 3-way speaker design that I have in mind currently that I have reviews about and certainly not one that is a part of a HT system.
2.I do not know if I can source good quality drivers like the Danish ones. Also I am not sure if the quality of the components for the crossover that I can get off the shelf would be good enough.
3.The characteristics that I have stated above are the ones that I THINK should be possible and am not very sure if there are any pit-falls in them, as I have not undertaken any projects before.
PHEW! even I am tired. Sorry to make you guys go through the entire song and dance. If and when we meet up, Ill get you guys a drink!
I would deeply appreciate your valuable inputs/guidance/chiding from navin and the other. Thanks a lot guys Cheers!
System suggestions
DAppolito
You may want to look at 2-ways reinforced with a powered sub rather than 3-ways. I have three two ways and a couple fo 12 inch powered subs and I find that the sub-sat approach works well for me.
Also, the external finish can be decided independent of using MDF for the raw enclosure. All my enclosures are done in MDF, and then given the final finish, which could be veneer or solid wood, I usually use solid wood for the front baffle and corner moulding.
If you go for two ways, you may be able to source the drivers from abroad, because the tweeters and mids arent too bulky. Scanspeaks mids come in pairs and the cartons arent too big, dont know about Vifas. Focals are also excellent drivers. Nowadays with the internet and credit cards, as well as the general rlaxation by the Govt of foreign exchange, things are far far easier than before..
BTW, where are you located?
George
DAppolito
You may want to look at 2-ways reinforced with a powered sub rather than 3-ways. I have three two ways and a couple fo 12 inch powered subs and I find that the sub-sat approach works well for me.
Also, the external finish can be decided independent of using MDF for the raw enclosure. All my enclosures are done in MDF, and then given the final finish, which could be veneer or solid wood, I usually use solid wood for the front baffle and corner moulding.
If you go for two ways, you may be able to source the drivers from abroad, because the tweeters and mids arent too bulky. Scanspeaks mids come in pairs and the cartons arent too big, dont know about Vifas. Focals are also excellent drivers. Nowadays with the internet and credit cards, as well as the general rlaxation by the Govt of foreign exchange, things are far far easier than before..
BTW, where are you located?
George
Hi there gjo
Thanks for your reply, regarding the MDF vs Veneer, maybe you are right. Regarding the 2-way vs 3-way issue, i have not yet decided for sure to go with the 3-way, thats just a tentative idea and im looking at other options available to provided I dont sacrifice the musicality of the speakers. I am right now in Chennai, an will be shortly moving to Bangalore I guess. Anyways thanks for your reply.
Cheers
Thanks for your reply, regarding the MDF vs Veneer, maybe you are right. Regarding the 2-way vs 3-way issue, i have not yet decided for sure to go with the 3-way, thats just a tentative idea and im looking at other options available to provided I dont sacrifice the musicality of the speakers. I am right now in Chennai, an will be shortly moving to Bangalore I guess. Anyways thanks for your reply.
Cheers
i second geroge's idea.
3 way XO passive is nuts. in fact if i were u i'd go for biamped sub sit combo. after 28 years of making DIY speakers (from before 1978) i feel this is the best option given the wide range drivers u can get today.
no in this area there is plenty to expriment.
1. sub till 80-100hz, 6" till 2k, 1" dome
2. woofer till 200-250Hz, 4" till 3.5/4k, HF unit above that
each has it's pros and cons.
expanding on 1:
12" sub like the shiva etc can be got for under $150 and maybe under $100
6" woofer top of the line can be got for $150 (SEAS Excel, SS Revelator, Focal etc..)
1" tweeter (SEAS Excel, SS Revelator, Ring Radiator) will cost another $150
Dynaudio does not sell to DIY last i kow. so you can choose from SS. VIfa, Focal, Morel, Cabasse etc.
expanding on ver 2.
2 x 8" or 10" woofers Peerless, Focal, Vifa, SS, etc...
4" mid
and then the top can be a Raven or Ring etc...
in general. version 1 will give you a lot of air and big bass. 12"ers like the Shiva can move a lot of air but u have to live with a XO inthe vocal range version 2 allows 1 driver to cover the critical vocal range 300-3k at eh expnse of a it less bass SPL capability.
3 way XO passive is nuts. in fact if i were u i'd go for biamped sub sit combo. after 28 years of making DIY speakers (from before 1978) i feel this is the best option given the wide range drivers u can get today.
no in this area there is plenty to expriment.
1. sub till 80-100hz, 6" till 2k, 1" dome
2. woofer till 200-250Hz, 4" till 3.5/4k, HF unit above that
each has it's pros and cons.
expanding on 1:
12" sub like the shiva etc can be got for under $150 and maybe under $100
6" woofer top of the line can be got for $150 (SEAS Excel, SS Revelator, Focal etc..)
1" tweeter (SEAS Excel, SS Revelator, Ring Radiator) will cost another $150
Dynaudio does not sell to DIY last i kow. so you can choose from SS. VIfa, Focal, Morel, Cabasse etc.
expanding on ver 2.
2 x 8" or 10" woofers Peerless, Focal, Vifa, SS, etc...
4" mid
and then the top can be a Raven or Ring etc...
in general. version 1 will give you a lot of air and big bass. 12"ers like the Shiva can move a lot of air but u have to live with a XO inthe vocal range version 2 allows 1 driver to cover the critical vocal range 300-3k at eh expnse of a it less bass SPL capability.
Hi there
Hey navin, thanks for your reply. From your post, I take it that XO means crossover.
Regarding the Subs, I am NOT a bass freak, but i DO need tight bass for the classical stuff. Would I be right in assuming that the usage of 2 smaller drivers (e.g 8") instead of a huge one (say a 12") would result in more taut bass albeit at the expense of depth? I am perfectly OK with it.
Regarding the Crossovers:
My take on your post, '3 way XO passive is nuts.' is that using a passive crossover network for a 3-way is ineffective. I do know what an active crossover is (little bit of PA experience) but what I'm not very sure is where would the active crossover be? in the enclosure or the amp? If its active, wouldn't it require a separate power source? I am also a little vague on the advantagesof using an active crossover instead of a passive one.
Thanks for your post, I shall be researching more I guess. Cheers!
Hey navin, thanks for your reply. From your post, I take it that XO means crossover.
Regarding the Subs, I am NOT a bass freak, but i DO need tight bass for the classical stuff. Would I be right in assuming that the usage of 2 smaller drivers (e.g 8") instead of a huge one (say a 12") would result in more taut bass albeit at the expense of depth? I am perfectly OK with it.
Regarding the Crossovers:
My take on your post, '3 way XO passive is nuts.' is that using a passive crossover network for a 3-way is ineffective. I do know what an active crossover is (little bit of PA experience) but what I'm not very sure is where would the active crossover be? in the enclosure or the amp? If its active, wouldn't it require a separate power source? I am also a little vague on the advantagesof using an active crossover instead of a passive one.
Thanks for your post, I shall be researching more I guess. Cheers!
sorry about that. i talk an odd lingo.
3 way passive is difficult for 2 reasons. when the high order XO freq are close together say 700Hz and 2500Hz there are complex polar issues. when the XO freq are far apart (more than 1 decade like 2000Hz and 200Hz) then the size of the components at 200Hz is large and getting good quality components is expensive
1st order XO avoids this but then tthe drivers must have a wide bandwidth (like dynaudio) to cope with the extra range
i find a good comporomise is an active XO at say 100Hz for a 12" and then a passive XO at say 2k between a 6" and 1". this way the system can be built in stages. build the 6" 2way. then add the sub later.
however if you are planning 3 way at this stage then u might want to consider 2 x 8" or 10" mated to a smaller mid and tweeter
lastly u can even eliminate the XO altogether and make a full range using a Jordan, Fostex, Tangband etc...
there are many options. unless u draw up a very specific list of specs. How big can the speaker be, how expensive, what capabilites, how big is the room, placement, etc... it would be diffcult to offer u any more detailed answers
3 way passive is difficult for 2 reasons. when the high order XO freq are close together say 700Hz and 2500Hz there are complex polar issues. when the XO freq are far apart (more than 1 decade like 2000Hz and 200Hz) then the size of the components at 200Hz is large and getting good quality components is expensive
1st order XO avoids this but then tthe drivers must have a wide bandwidth (like dynaudio) to cope with the extra range
i find a good comporomise is an active XO at say 100Hz for a 12" and then a passive XO at say 2k between a 6" and 1". this way the system can be built in stages. build the 6" 2way. then add the sub later.
however if you are planning 3 way at this stage then u might want to consider 2 x 8" or 10" mated to a smaller mid and tweeter
lastly u can even eliminate the XO altogether and make a full range using a Jordan, Fostex, Tangband etc...
there are many options. unless u draw up a very specific list of specs. How big can the speaker be, how expensive, what capabilites, how big is the room, placement, etc... it would be diffcult to offer u any more detailed answers
Kits available
Guys
I have a couple of kit power supplies and a mosfet power amp 200 watts mono (200WRMS X 4 and 8 amps) from Marchand Electronics with heatsink. Marchand is a well respected US vendor Check their website-www.marchandelec.com) for details. This was originally brought for a powered sub. I should also have their XM-1 crossover if anyone is interested, its a24dB L-R active crossover unit.
At this point I dont have the time to put all of this together, so in case any of you is interested, you can have it at cost. I bought two plate amps from Stryke and just wired them to my subs and these are 220/110V switcheable, and work fine.
I think the amp is the PM 124 or 224(its the 200 watts model) and the power supply is a PS xxx( dont remember the exact model). There are assembly manuals and the stuff is sealed and new in box. Prefer to sell all together because I have no use for a spare power supply at this time.
Email me offlist at gjo@dtsam.com if you need any more info.
Thanks
George
Guys
I have a couple of kit power supplies and a mosfet power amp 200 watts mono (200WRMS X 4 and 8 amps) from Marchand Electronics with heatsink. Marchand is a well respected US vendor Check their website-www.marchandelec.com) for details. This was originally brought for a powered sub. I should also have their XM-1 crossover if anyone is interested, its a24dB L-R active crossover unit.
At this point I dont have the time to put all of this together, so in case any of you is interested, you can have it at cost. I bought two plate amps from Stryke and just wired them to my subs and these are 220/110V switcheable, and work fine.
I think the amp is the PM 124 or 224(its the 200 watts model) and the power supply is a PS xxx( dont remember the exact model). There are assembly manuals and the stuff is sealed and new in box. Prefer to sell all together because I have no use for a spare power supply at this time.
Email me offlist at gjo@dtsam.com if you need any more info.
Thanks
George
what an interesting thread...
...i just moved to dehli from london in june and will be here for another 18 months or so. sadly, I've yet to find the time to audition some cadence gear, though I hope to do that next month.
i was wondering if anyone has any details for good parts suppliers. i'm looking for tubes, but also general electronics stuff as well. i have some half finished guitar effects that I'd like to polish off when I find some spare time.
...i just moved to dehli from london in june and will be here for another 18 months or so. sadly, I've yet to find the time to audition some cadence gear, though I hope to do that next month.
i was wondering if anyone has any details for good parts suppliers. i'm looking for tubes, but also general electronics stuff as well. i have some half finished guitar effects that I'd like to polish off when I find some spare time.
Hugh
No fears! The AKSA remains with me-this is a mono power amp module which I brought for a sub, but decidd it just was too much effort to put together..
Looks like the Aussie and the Indians are going to be fighting out the cricket finals next week..
Fernmeister
Welcome! I hope you get an opportunity to connect up with some of us adventurous souls.
Ashok-we await your post about meeting Angshu at Jamshedpur..Aap log ne maja kiya honge!
George
No fears! The AKSA remains with me-this is a mono power amp module which I brought for a sub, but decidd it just was too much effort to put together..
Looks like the Aussie and the Indians are going to be fighting out the cricket finals next week..
Fernmeister
Welcome! I hope you get an opportunity to connect up with some of us adventurous souls.
Ashok-we await your post about meeting Angshu at Jamshedpur..Aap log ne maja kiya honge!
George
gjo said:
George,
Unfortunately, Ashok and I could not meet up. Ashok had to go out of town to attend a wedding. I had extended my stay from my initial program but Ashok reached late Monday night and I had to leave early morning Tuesday.
I was really looking forward to meeting Ashok and listen to all his valve gear, I am afraid that I have to wait for my next visit.
By the way the 10th Milestone is owned by my sister-in-law's friend, I will try and negotiate a special discount package for the DIYer, that is as long as Ashok behaves himself.
Jamshedpur in winters as always was fantastic. Drove around Bistupur, Jublee Park, Circuit house area and felt very nostalgic.
Fernmeister,
Welcome to India and Delhi, I seem to be the only one in this group from Delhi. Please feel free to contact me if you need any assistance. My mobile number is 9810088356.
You can audition the Cadence in Delhi, I have, number of times, and am quite impressed.
Cheers,
Angshu
Warning this post is serioussly of topic!!
guys,
i am the lookout for a new car. there are some limitations.
1. length less than 4500mm (15 ft), width less than 1800mm (6ft) as my parking space is barely that
2. rear seat comfort for mumbai roads as i put in more miles in the rear that in the front
3. leg room should be equal or more than the OPEL Astra (my persent car)
Choices so far: Skoda Octavia (rear leg room cramped), Toyota Corolla (excessive body roll), Chevy Foresster (a Subaru with a Chevy badge but will an SUV offer the comfort of a car?), Chevy Optra (not checked it out but I fear its antcedants - Daewoo-GM).
guys,
i am the lookout for a new car. there are some limitations.
1. length less than 4500mm (15 ft), width less than 1800mm (6ft) as my parking space is barely that
2. rear seat comfort for mumbai roads as i put in more miles in the rear that in the front
3. leg room should be equal or more than the OPEL Astra (my persent car)
Choices so far: Skoda Octavia (rear leg room cramped), Toyota Corolla (excessive body roll), Chevy Foresster (a Subaru with a Chevy badge but will an SUV offer the comfort of a car?), Chevy Optra (not checked it out but I fear its antcedants - Daewoo-GM).
Re: Warning this post is serioussly of topic!!
not the corolla. the octavia, is based on a VW, decent car, but not for travelling in the back. the optra, I have no experience with. I would go with the chevy foresster.
the subaru FWD range are not really like the heavy duty off road cars like the landcrusier or those tall tata things. they are developed more for bad roads and rally type driving. the forrester has a lot of performance features in common with the rally winning imprezza. i'm not sure what engine they have here, but in europe they were pretty highly powered (I have a friend in yorkshire who has one). when top gear (UK) reviewed them they classed it as a very impressive and comfortable car for country driving. i think it would be well suited to indian conditions
navin said:
not the corolla. the octavia, is based on a VW, decent car, but not for travelling in the back. the optra, I have no experience with. I would go with the chevy foresster.
the subaru FWD range are not really like the heavy duty off road cars like the landcrusier or those tall tata things. they are developed more for bad roads and rally type driving. the forrester has a lot of performance features in common with the rally winning imprezza. i'm not sure what engine they have here, but in europe they were pretty highly powered (I have a friend in yorkshire who has one). when top gear (UK) reviewed them they classed it as a very impressive and comfortable car for country driving. i think it would be well suited to indian conditions
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