So after discovering tube sound a few months ago, I loved it. I like that twang sound it adds to everything, especially guitar type instruments. I remember asking a top notch audio installer in my area and he said he absolutely never installs tube items in people's homes because they're undoubtedly inferior. I disagreed with him as I liked the distortion. But after about two months, I liked it less and less and eventually found it to be annoying and completely inferior to equivalent solid state products. I feel like if you took a good solid state amp back in time and let tube users (who did not have a choice) listen to it, their jaws would have dropped.
I your amp "adds twang sounds" to everything you listen to the the tubes are not at fault, a poorly designed amp is.
Tube amplifiers that are properly designed neither add nor subtract anything from the input; they simply amplify.
Don't forget, a triode is one of the MOST linear amplifying devices know to man.
Tube amplifiers that are properly designed neither add nor subtract anything from the input; they simply amplify.
Don't forget, a triode is one of the MOST linear amplifying devices know to man.
Hi,
The tube amp is not powerful enough, that is when it gets annoying.
I recall my Rogers Cadet III, nice enough until you crank it up,
and then it gets slaughtered by 50W of decent solid state.
At low / medium volumes it was great, but would not do
loud, at least with typical average sensitivity speakers.
rgds, sreten.
FWIW many moons ago I built a good system for a friend.
I let him try the Cadet III, he was very unimpressed at the
level it simply gave up the ghost, especially in the bass.
The tube amp is not powerful enough, that is when it gets annoying.
I recall my Rogers Cadet III, nice enough until you crank it up,
and then it gets slaughtered by 50W of decent solid state.
At low / medium volumes it was great, but would not do
loud, at least with typical average sensitivity speakers.
rgds, sreten.
FWIW many moons ago I built a good system for a friend.
I let him try the Cadet III, he was very unimpressed at the
level it simply gave up the ghost, especially in the bass.
Last edited:
Some 30+ years ago I occasionally doubted my judgment and went back to solid state, only to return quickly to tubes. In the past couple of decades I have had little reason to doubt the decision I made, and in the course of designing tube electronics I have gotten better at it.
Choosing appropriate speakers for use with tube amplifiers is an important part of the equation and there are also plenty of amplifiers using tubes or transistors that sound terrible, design incompetence is not limited to one technology or other..
So tell us a little about the speakers and amplifier used... (Comments about "twang" sound suspiciously like the device discussed was intended to add a little "color" to the sound - rather than attempting to reproduce it accurately.)
Choosing appropriate speakers for use with tube amplifiers is an important part of the equation and there are also plenty of amplifiers using tubes or transistors that sound terrible, design incompetence is not limited to one technology or other..
So tell us a little about the speakers and amplifier used... (Comments about "twang" sound suspiciously like the device discussed was intended to add a little "color" to the sound - rather than attempting to reproduce it accurately.)
This was a cheapish tube amp designed to create a tiny but perceptible bit of tube distortion. I haven't heard a tube amp that didn't create any distortion (I thought that was the whole point of tube sound? are you saying a tube amp could actually be clearer and less distortive than a solid state?) of course there's also the issue that each tube and tube amp has a different sound so it's hard to generalize.
are you saying a tube amp could actually be clearer and less distortive than a solid state?) of course there's also the issue that each tube and tube amp has a different sound so it's hard to generalize.
Yes, with caveats.
And again a properly designed tube amp should not have a "sound".
Does every different transistor have a different sound?
Some years ago,
I stopped doing audio and got rid of my tube stuff and bought an all in one system midfi yes it sound OK it did the job...then I built a tube HP amp because...well it seemed like a good idea. Then I went and listened at a local dealer to a £16,000 system..yes it was good but...something was not moving me. So I built a tube preamp and a chip amp for fun..the saga continues.
(what has happened to audio? where are the magazines etc)I walk into the "New audio shops and listen..then cringe." What can you do but build another one..
Old habits die hard I was building audio amps when I was at school...yes what was I thinking..
Regards
M. Gregg
I stopped doing audio and got rid of my tube stuff and bought an all in one system midfi yes it sound OK it did the job...then I built a tube HP amp because...well it seemed like a good idea. Then I went and listened at a local dealer to a £16,000 system..yes it was good but...something was not moving me. So I built a tube preamp and a chip amp for fun..the saga continues.
(what has happened to audio? where are the magazines etc)I walk into the "New audio shops and listen..then cringe." What can you do but build another one..
Old habits die hard I was building audio amps when I was at school...yes what was I thinking..
Regards
M. Gregg
Last edited:
And again a properly designed tube amp should not have a "sound".
So if we say a properly designed tube amp should not have a sound, we would also say that a properly designed solid state amp should not have a sound. Surely this translates into both being completely transparent (within their limitations) and if used correctly neither should garner a preference because they both sound like nothing.
I guess our definitions of 'a sound' are different then.
We all got's different pairs of ears; mine arent even a "matched pair"
We all got's different pairs of ears; mine arent even a "matched pair"
same here....
Transistor amps are far more accurate , measuring distortion to levels lower then .0001%
the problem comes when clipping occurs. The slightly non linear amplification coupled with the soft ( 2nd) harmonic distortion is more pleasing to the ear.
That being said, my amps all have SS outputs.
the problem comes when clipping occurs. The slightly non linear amplification coupled with the soft ( 2nd) harmonic distortion is more pleasing to the ear.
That being said, my amps all have SS outputs.
can someone even hear 1% of distortion?Transistor amps are far more accurate , measuring distortion to levels lower then .0001%
the problem comes when clipping occurs. The slightly non linear amplification coupled with the soft ( 2nd) harmonic distortion is more pleasing to the ear.
That being said, my amps all have SS outputs.
I don't need much power from amps because I use speakers with at least moderate effeciency and I don't need very high SPL. (I don't like the overall engineering in the combination of high power amp & low effeciency speakers anyway.)
So, I've never found tube amps that are not powerful enough, including a 0.7W SET for mid-high section in an active system I once had. I've never heard a single clip from them.
I steered away from tube amps these 2 years is because I encountered 3-channel configuration. For driving 6 channels of speakers in total in this active system, it's a pain to use all those tube amps. Too much heat for me. My 6S45, 2A3 and 300B amps are collecting dust in the storage, so sadly.
In my experiences, the sometimes 'warmer' sound from (good) tube amps is actually a better fidelity, which is a better overall presentation combining tones (harmonics), textures (details), and a coherent sum of them. The warmth is in the real thing and recording. (TBH, I don't remember hearing any vocal or acoustic musical instument that is 'cold' sounding.)
And, what is 'twang' ?
So, I've never found tube amps that are not powerful enough, including a 0.7W SET for mid-high section in an active system I once had. I've never heard a single clip from them.
I steered away from tube amps these 2 years is because I encountered 3-channel configuration. For driving 6 channels of speakers in total in this active system, it's a pain to use all those tube amps. Too much heat for me. My 6S45, 2A3 and 300B amps are collecting dust in the storage, so sadly.
In my experiences, the sometimes 'warmer' sound from (good) tube amps is actually a better fidelity, which is a better overall presentation combining tones (harmonics), textures (details), and a coherent sum of them. The warmth is in the real thing and recording. (TBH, I don't remember hearing any vocal or acoustic musical instument that is 'cold' sounding.)
And, what is 'twang' ?
can someone even hear 1% of distortion?
Klippel has an online test for that:Listening Test
Using my speakers I passed -45dB (0.56%) but failed at -48dB (0.398%).
I use SS gear exclusively for reproduction.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
- Home
- Member Areas
- The Lounge
- Has anyone gone from loving tube sound, to "what was I thinking?"