My idea of h-e-l-l would be Dolly Parton singing 9 to 5 on an endless tape loop played on a $25 table top AM radio in a bad reception area.
Re; the question of why there are "so many date fixers"? Post #37
I don't want to bore anyone with a dry technical analysis as I have enjoyed the 'nonsense' elements of this thread as much as the next man.....perhaps more so as I have a professional interest in this topic as I am a Anglican (or Episcopalian) pastor and did a bit of work on this topic as a student 35yrs ago.
For a start it is not just America! When the social triggers are right it pops up all over the place.
The study of the "last days" or "end times" etc is called eschatology and the more florid and extreme forms are known as apocalyptic. As I understand it the phenomenon arose in Israel after the Exile to Babylon (6th Cent' B.C.) and is usually the product of preaching Law without Grace. Or in other words in communities which hammer God's demands without a corresponding teaching of His love. This is still true today. (And of course the way to reduce it is to quietly remind people of God's love, grace etc. After a while the extreme elements should calm down.)
Secondly, these groups frequently express a very negative attitude to the material world. The group or sect wants to leave (or rather abandon) the earth and it is often destroyed when they depart. The origin of this attitude goes back to the Ancient Greeks and is one of the more persistent corruptions of the classic Hebrew/Christian understanding of the world. The Greeks understood that matter was bad and that the spirit/soul was "good". This idea has colored most subsequent European thinking for well over 2,000 yrs. And to the extent that Europe has colonized a lot of the world in various ways the influence is very widespread.
When training we were always taught that the Jewish/Christian understanding of the physical world was "the most materialistic religion" on the planet. Not in the sense of being obsessed with it but rather that matter was inherently good rather than evil. We believe that what God made was essentially good. (After all the Christians will remind people that when their God came to earth He took a regular physical body and did not float around as an ethereal spirit. At the end He did His best work on a piece of wood.)
There is obviously more but these too elements will go a long way to explaining a lot of what we see.
Cheers,
Jonathan
I don't want to bore anyone with a dry technical analysis as I have enjoyed the 'nonsense' elements of this thread as much as the next man.....perhaps more so as I have a professional interest in this topic as I am a Anglican (or Episcopalian) pastor and did a bit of work on this topic as a student 35yrs ago.
For a start it is not just America! When the social triggers are right it pops up all over the place.
The study of the "last days" or "end times" etc is called eschatology and the more florid and extreme forms are known as apocalyptic. As I understand it the phenomenon arose in Israel after the Exile to Babylon (6th Cent' B.C.) and is usually the product of preaching Law without Grace. Or in other words in communities which hammer God's demands without a corresponding teaching of His love. This is still true today. (And of course the way to reduce it is to quietly remind people of God's love, grace etc. After a while the extreme elements should calm down.)
Secondly, these groups frequently express a very negative attitude to the material world. The group or sect wants to leave (or rather abandon) the earth and it is often destroyed when they depart. The origin of this attitude goes back to the Ancient Greeks and is one of the more persistent corruptions of the classic Hebrew/Christian understanding of the world. The Greeks understood that matter was bad and that the spirit/soul was "good". This idea has colored most subsequent European thinking for well over 2,000 yrs. And to the extent that Europe has colonized a lot of the world in various ways the influence is very widespread.
When training we were always taught that the Jewish/Christian understanding of the physical world was "the most materialistic religion" on the planet. Not in the sense of being obsessed with it but rather that matter was inherently good rather than evil. We believe that what God made was essentially good. (After all the Christians will remind people that when their God came to earth He took a regular physical body and did not float around as an ethereal spirit. At the end He did His best work on a piece of wood.)
There is obviously more but these too elements will go a long way to explaining a lot of what we see.
Cheers,
Jonathan
Re; #61 and "Heaven and Hell".
We once owned a Peugeot "wagon" seven seater for many years. We needed it for the five kids! While owning the Peugeot, servicing it myself and getting a little frustrated with the eccentric aspects of its design I heard two nice definitions.
I apologise in advance as it is one of those "equal opportunity offender stories"! Everyone gets a serve.
"HEAVEN is where the English are the police, the Germans are the engineers, the French are the cooks, the Italians are the lovers and the Swizz do the organizing.
HELL is where the English are the cooks, the Germans are the police, the French are the engineers, the Swizz are the lovers and the Italians do the organizing."
Cheers, Jonathan
We once owned a Peugeot "wagon" seven seater for many years. We needed it for the five kids! While owning the Peugeot, servicing it myself and getting a little frustrated with the eccentric aspects of its design I heard two nice definitions.
I apologise in advance as it is one of those "equal opportunity offender stories"! Everyone gets a serve.
"HEAVEN is where the English are the police, the Germans are the engineers, the French are the cooks, the Italians are the lovers and the Swizz do the organizing.
HELL is where the English are the cooks, the Germans are the police, the French are the engineers, the Swizz are the lovers and the Italians do the organizing."
Cheers, Jonathan
The Priest always know the good ones!!! Offfffff course you have started a snowball rolling down the hill and it will soon be gathering speed.
Let's seeeeee - Nations or races covered - English, Germans, French, Italians, Swiss. Occupations covered - Cooks, police, engineers, lovers, and organizers (i.e. management).
NOW the beginning of the END HAS REALLY STARTED!!!!
Peugeot car was also for me always.
I had a Peugeot 504 and from Peugeot 405 is now the second is for me. I think you'll love these cars. Mostly when you're a bit perverted, like me.
I apologize every time I curse the snails gobble engineers due to one or another interesting solution.
Excuse to say, the cars are all beautiful and comfortable. And yet there was little wrong with them so that I could not have been resolved. In addition, they have space rockets, is not it?
Duh, as a former Peugeot 505 Break wrencher i totally disagree.
Heaven is a Peugeot.
Hell is a Citroen.
Exchange of the exhaust header of a GS required tilting the engine.
On a visit to the jazz festival in Cluny, French Burgundy, the back door fell out.
If it all worked, the GS Break 'wagon' was such a fun car.
Your Heaven/Hell definition is grand, though purgatory would be a Swiss melted cheese chef.
Yes, there are solutions, (not only in Citroens) which according to the manufacturer's specifications, can be repaired when the engine is pulled out.
However, they usually can be repaired without it.
But while this, the Hungarian language is so beautiful and expressive power is not enough.
Here I am thinking of curses.
Hi Jacco,
I don't want to slander the great Peugeot name. When I said "eccentric" that wasn't a criticism just an observation. I mean it was the only car I know with a sump plug with a square recesses and a special tool to remove it rather than a hex-head nut and a flat spanner. All part of the charm. (I am not sure if there is a minor translation question here.)
No, it was just "different" from the British and American Fords my family sold.........No! we loved our 504 (Familial, I think they were called)......only got rid of it when the kids left home and we couldn't justify the size anymore.
Easily the most comfortable car for touring we ever had.
Now we are starting to look at retirement I would like to think about a 505 turbo-diesel for the great open spaces of Australia........but probably not practical now.
Jonathan
I don't want to slander the great Peugeot name. When I said "eccentric" that wasn't a criticism just an observation. I mean it was the only car I know with a sump plug with a square recesses and a special tool to remove it rather than a hex-head nut and a flat spanner. All part of the charm. (I am not sure if there is a minor translation question here.)
No, it was just "different" from the British and American Fords my family sold.........No! we loved our 504 (Familial, I think they were called)......only got rid of it when the kids left home and we couldn't justify the size anymore.
Easily the most comfortable car for touring we ever had.
Now we are starting to look at retirement I would like to think about a 505 turbo-diesel for the great open spaces of Australia........but probably not practical now.
Jonathan
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Hmm, not all Greeks. Plato then Socrates. Jesus was also melancholy about it.
Yeah the body gets sick, rottens and dies. The spirit gets stoned. No brainer.
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