The BS170 circuit looks like it would work in a very similar way in principle. It is a different type of FET, a MosFet rather than a JFET, and I have not tried them. The input impedance is 500k, which is Ok, but if you change the 1M resistors to 2.2M it will work the same and have a better 1.1M impedance. C2 looks like it may take the edge off the treble. Id leave it out or reduce it.
I know it's a MOSFET, as I said the FETs are the ones almost impossible to get here. BS170/2N7000 are available and cheap...too bad they do not sound as, or are as useful as the J201, 2N5457/58/84, MPF102, NTE458, 2SK362, etc...
Ok I will test it! Thanks!!
Welcome to the start of the road
You need to go and understand distortion, tone and the amplifier/speaker interface.
Op=amps have a particular sound when they clip and guitar amplifiers are anything but flat - speaker and cabinet emulation is needed.
Some places to start
Hamm, R. O. (1973). Tubes Versus Transistors-is there an Audible Difference. Journal of the audio engineering society, 21(4), 267-273
Hamm is in the second of the following
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Tubeprimerandselection330.pdf
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Tubeprimerandselection320-2.pdf
Have a look at The “Hot-Lamp" speaker-simulator
Ultimately you end up building either most of a small decent amp (eg Vox Pathfinder 15R) or a Real McTube/Duncan Twin Tube Classic
Plus a speaker emulator Aiken and Dogstar Limiter and Small amp emulator
You need to go and understand distortion, tone and the amplifier/speaker interface.
Op=amps have a particular sound when they clip and guitar amplifiers are anything but flat - speaker and cabinet emulation is needed.
Some places to start
Hamm, R. O. (1973). Tubes Versus Transistors-is there an Audible Difference. Journal of the audio engineering society, 21(4), 267-273
Hamm is in the second of the following
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Tubeprimerandselection330.pdf
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Tubeprimerandselection320-2.pdf
Have a look at The “Hot-Lamp" speaker-simulator
Ultimately you end up building either most of a small decent amp (eg Vox Pathfinder 15R) or a Real McTube/Duncan Twin Tube Classic
Plus a speaker emulator Aiken and Dogstar Limiter and Small amp emulator
Not just me then !
I'm going to build the circuit again, but will have to wait for a new TL071 first
I think you could experiment with another FET opamp and use only one section ,if it's a double or quad, like the NE5532, TL072/62/82/64/74...
But I know about that. Well, "know"...I have experience..., as I showed in the comment you quoted ( http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/inst...ne-level-hi-quality-preamp-5.html#post4277317 #49), as I said there I need a flat or non modified guitar to line level (soundcard) "high quality" interface for amp modeling, with switcheable cab/speaker simulator for when I want to record through some hardware distortion (pedal, stompbox) or other effect, again, with the computer. And I already, before me entering to this thread, experimented with a lot of preamps, buffers, boosters and cabsims and tried to make hybrids but no one sound good enough for me. Now, this bass-slapping-like effect that I stumble upon in my last experiments I never encountered before, so I'm finding it surprising and bothering. I'm starting to think something went wrong with my guitar or sound card... I will have to make sure everything else is fine before I continue to experiment especially when yesterday I found like 5 other "guitar direct boxes" to test
, most of them very similiar to this one.But thanks a lot for the links. I knew the Real MCTube distortion page, but uses tubes so...not yet! Not prepared for that, I'm kind of only beggining and I know tubes are expensive...and I already made one really great sounding distortion (and like 5 other not great ones) that is kind of enough for my actual needs, but in a near future maybe. Those amp simulators uses tubes, transformers and high value (and high Q maybe?) inductors, those two last are even more expensive than tubes here! Look at the ones I linked... are like toys compared to yours!! But I made the simpler ones and are good enough...
Now those two first links, I will devour! But later!! Thank you!
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Hey, but not when soldering, eh?! Don't dare to question my soldering abilities!!
/wispering: (until now I always used sockets for ICs...but don't tell anyone!
they broke for something else, don't know what...)
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Well, I figured out what was wrong with my circuit. I included the optional Rp input resistor and I didn't pay proper attention to it's value. I can't read colour codes and putting it on the meter gave me what I thought was 1M - it wasn't 1M though, it was 100 ohms.
I bought the components from a local shop ( I live in Spain by the way ) - and I must have mistranslated the value into Spanish.
I am an idiot....
I bought the components from a local shop ( I live in Spain by the way ) - and I must have mistranslated the value into Spanish.
I am an idiot....
Well, I tested a lot of preamps designs and I still have many to test, my findings are:
-Noise: opamps are the best, and still not good enough, next are Fets (I have a K362 which is an NTE458/J201 equivalent, but can't get them anymore..any JFET), and then, are the normal general purpose transistors and MOSFETS of which I tested 2n3904 BC546to549, 2N7000 and BS170, I forgot to test the low noise BC550C but I will. All those transistor have so much noise that are just useless, especially for amp modelling. (I test the noise with GuitarRig5 with a Van51 in rhythm channel, "HI GAIN" ON, "Crunch" and "Bright" ON, "Pre Gain" at maximum, "Post Gain" at 2.83 and before the amp, a "Skreamer" all at "noon". In Win and GR5 I use the minimun input gain that's still useable. For what I've seen in videos the noise I get with opamps is much lower than with an USB Guitar Link 1 and 2. My measure would be of how much negative decibels I have to put the GATE to get it to work, this is: no noise get through until I play louder than that value. Less negative value the more noisy is the preamp so -70 is less noisy than -50. And I get with opamps (TL071-72-NE5532) around -64 to -57 db, with MOSFET and common transistors -47 to -35... disastrous. All in breadboard)
-Sound quality: from better to worse: MOSFETS; FET; OPAMP; normal transistors.
-That damn bass slapping effect I have would be from less to more: mosfets; transistors (if I remember correctly) fets; opamps.
-Flexibility (potencial to be used in other configurations-other uses, in the easiest and less complex way) : OPAMPS; the rest. In fact one of the best I tested is a super simple TL071 based tone control (of many similar yet to test) that when decreasing the bass to minimun makes that slapping effect almost dissapear (and works very well attaching to it the selectable/optional cabsim circuit), but still a mosfet based is still much much better at that, but with such a horrible quantity of noise that makes it useless.
So...everything sucks.
And for what I saw in internet until now nobody is coming with a useful solution for this, in fact I saw a lot of "experts" telling you that the way to connect a guitar to the PC, besides a proper "pro" and expensive interface, is just straight to the mic input with a 6,3 to 3,5mm adaptor(!!!!), which I heard so much that I tested it....horrible, as I expected it to be, in every sense. They also say that preamps should not be used and that the line in is inappropriate...somehow...
My question for the audio experts here, is: Is it that hard to get done this proper home made high imedance to low impedance (or exclusively guitar to line in) device with no sound artifacts or high quality and with very low noise, that is good for recording (and that don't use jFETs if possible)?
-Noise: opamps are the best, and still not good enough, next are Fets (I have a K362 which is an NTE458/J201 equivalent, but can't get them anymore..any JFET), and then, are the normal general purpose transistors and MOSFETS of which I tested 2n3904 BC546to549, 2N7000 and BS170, I forgot to test the low noise BC550C but I will. All those transistor have so much noise that are just useless, especially for amp modelling. (I test the noise with GuitarRig5 with a Van51 in rhythm channel, "HI GAIN" ON, "Crunch" and "Bright" ON, "Pre Gain" at maximum, "Post Gain" at 2.83 and before the amp, a "Skreamer" all at "noon". In Win and GR5 I use the minimun input gain that's still useable. For what I've seen in videos the noise I get with opamps is much lower than with an USB Guitar Link 1 and 2. My measure would be of how much negative decibels I have to put the GATE to get it to work, this is: no noise get through until I play louder than that value. Less negative value the more noisy is the preamp so -70 is less noisy than -50. And I get with opamps (TL071-72-NE5532) around -64 to -57 db, with MOSFET and common transistors -47 to -35... disastrous. All in breadboard)
-Sound quality: from better to worse: MOSFETS; FET; OPAMP; normal transistors.
-That damn bass slapping effect I have would be from less to more: mosfets; transistors (if I remember correctly) fets; opamps.
-Flexibility (potencial to be used in other configurations-other uses, in the easiest and less complex way) : OPAMPS; the rest. In fact one of the best I tested is a super simple TL071 based tone control (of many similar yet to test) that when decreasing the bass to minimun makes that slapping effect almost dissapear (and works very well attaching to it the selectable/optional cabsim circuit), but still a mosfet based is still much much better at that, but with such a horrible quantity of noise that makes it useless.
So...everything sucks.
And for what I saw in internet until now nobody is coming with a useful solution for this, in fact I saw a lot of "experts" telling you that the way to connect a guitar to the PC, besides a proper "pro" and expensive interface, is just straight to the mic input with a 6,3 to 3,5mm adaptor(!!!!), which I heard so much that I tested it....horrible, as I expected it to be, in every sense. They also say that preamps should not be used and that the line in is inappropriate...somehow...
My question for the audio experts here, is: Is it that hard to get done this proper home made high imedance to low impedance (or exclusively guitar to line in) device with no sound artifacts or high quality and with very low noise, that is good for recording (and that don't use jFETs if possible)?
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I sympathise. I have different kind of noise problem, which is a sort of digital 'hash' that is generated outside the guitar.
I recently built this circuit, the first one on the page :- Guitar Buffer Circuits and it is unity gain, or maybe a little less. But then I play a Strat with generic single coil pickups that don't have high output.
Guitar Rig seems to ( self ) generate more noise than most other amp modelling software, have you tried Amplitube ? - I find it a lot better, on some amp models at least. But I don't play metal, so I never really use the kind of high gain that you do.
I recently built this circuit, the first one on the page :- Guitar Buffer Circuits and it is unity gain, or maybe a little less. But then I play a Strat with generic single coil pickups that don't have high output.
Guitar Rig seems to ( self ) generate more noise than most other amp modelling software, have you tried Amplitube ? - I find it a lot better, on some amp models at least. But I don't play metal, so I never really use the kind of high gain that you do.
When I got Guitar Rig it was supposed to be best of the two, at least for metal, but surely I will test Amplitube soon, that and those free vst plugins like this ones https://pvdhp7.wordpress.com/ and TSE AUDIO - Software . But I have to get a good enough DAW too...
Ha, look while I was writing this I read this Guitar Rig 5 noise problem that confrims what both of us said, that Guitar Rig sounds amazing but has too much noise...well, to test the others then...maybe I just lost time with this... ...oh yeah...my bass slapping glitch grrrrr!!
Well, some say that, and some says that is simply because of the gain: by adding gain you raise the noise floor of your guitar/interface/preamps/cables/soundcard/etc and the modeling would make the noise sound different too... It will be good if they find good ways to remove the noise and if it's like you say to make it selectable. The gate and the noise reduction in Guitar Rig are very bad, it would be great if they do one that work like the one in the Amptweaker Tight Metal, but better.
With the simple jfet preamps that ive built, the preamp noise is absolutetly tiny compared to all the other cr@p coming out of the guitar (including my playing). But I suppose even the smallest hiss will get boosted to enormity by a high-gain amp or sim.
Into a pc, I get good results from a buffered guitar signal through the line-in (mic-in is terrible), provided I set the input levels right in the software. Im just using Audacity for clean recordings.
For the processing for metal, do you use noise gate and cab sim plugins to control hiss at both ends? I could imagine it could sound very bad through full-range speakers without those.
Into a pc, I get good results from a buffered guitar signal through the line-in (mic-in is terrible), provided I set the input levels right in the software. Im just using Audacity for clean recordings.
For the processing for metal, do you use noise gate and cab sim plugins to control hiss at both ends? I could imagine it could sound very bad through full-range speakers without those.
I think that is a really harsh comment, but at the same time I'd tend to agree with you to a certain extent
Work that one out if you can Fergutor - some tricks you could try - one that works for me to an extent is using a software parametric EQ. The hiss\hash\funny digital noise I have is centred around 4.3khz or so. If you notch there then things can get a lot better.
Also Amplitube's " Slash " collection has a really good effects pedal which is called a gate but also reduces noise when the gate is open.
Exactly, that is why I need very-low-sub-under-below-negligible quantity of noise. With no freaking slapping bass sound as this also gets amplified and distorts my distortion!!!
That's important in order to get the best undistorted non glitched pristine clean sound to the amp modeller or daw or recorder, and I think I'm doing it right. But one thing I noticed is that sound cards have different voltage and impedance levels in their inputs so a volume/gain in the preamp is important too, 1-1 gain is not enough it seems (too much for some too little for others.
One can get away (a little) with dark sounding guitar / preamps without a cab sim if playing clean and soft...but not with distortion...high frequencies skyrocket with distortion effects, so a cab sim is necessary here. About noise gate (and you just gave me an idea by the way) I don't have a hardware noise gate, and never found one good enough (and even possible to make) to make myself, so I have to use a gate in the soft, and the one in Guitar Rig 5 is not good in my opinion because is not a "noise gate" but a "signal gate" (as maybe all gates are outhere), the one in the Tight Metal is actualy a noise reduction gate. There is a "Noise Reduction" effect in Guitar Rig but it works the same way as the other gate (but with more controls) Gonna try Amplitube 3 today, Sid-W just said that the gate there actually reduces noise when open, so that seems better. Another thing I could do is either recording the clean guitar (one can do that in GR5 with a recorder in front of the effects but while listening with the effects on), then take that recording to some Audio Editor to remove the noise, or, as I already did with pedal effect and mic before, record the guitar with the effect and then remove the noise with the audio editor...but...too much work...and is not the way I want to use this...(ok maybe a whim of my part because it could be necessary to do this...damn...can't one be a little lazy?!) Tell me if I'm forgetting another method.
Thanks! But never tried that because noise is many frequencies at the same time so I can only make white noise, for example, sound more grey or pink or brown like, but never get rid of it enough without removing the guitar aswell. BUT, it could work anyway with some of the nastiest of the frequencies. On the other hand the main problem with noise is when I palm mute, for example, at the fading of the guitar sound all the noise rise and the result is an incredible amateur non proffesional effect...like a beautiful model dressed in white...with a turd hanging down her butt...hahaha.
Maybe my problem is my inexperience with real expensive pro equipment and I'm just overexpecting quality, I mean, maybe the noise I getting is normal but I don't have the "concept" of the normality of dealing with it... For example, look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgVLIZnSvDw , the problem is that in Guitar Rig there is not, well I didn't saw, an useful noise supressor like those, the one there is, is awful.
So having realized this (plus my prior comment), I think I'm at peace now...
.......Peace.......
EXCEPT FOR THAT SLAPPING BASS SOUND GLITCH #@%&$##!!!!
So having realized this (plus my prior comment), I think I'm at peace now...
.......Peace.......
EXCEPT FOR THAT SLAPPING BASS SOUND GLITCH #@%&$##!!!!
I'm unclear. Is the noise before or after the amp simulator? How much noise do you get with a shorted input on the pre playing thru the amp sim compared with a guitar plugged in. I'm trying to see if the noise is mostly from the sim, the pre or the guitar. If your guitar dosnt have a humbucker and your in a noises EM enviroment (dimmers, computers, motor brushes) your guit maybe the bigest problem.
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