Steve thanks for your reply, very interesting. I can´t wait to get them in my hands (probably next sunday) 
ok another question. What about the "audiom" drivers?? Those are bass units without the mid cone, very similar to axioms. I got one Audiom 51 last week. Are they good for open baffles?? I see some audioms on ebay from time to time. There are some 51s, 61s, 81s (15 inch), and yes, there are also 18inch 91s!!!! Not very expensive in fact. I´m planning to build "all goodmans open baffles"
Axiom 301 for midrange, super tweeter (unidentified vintage driver from goodmans, probably alnico 4 inch), at the bottom Audiom 51 (maybe as ripol) cut at 250Hz (second order Linkwitz-Riley XO). I will post some photos a.s.a.p
ok another question. What about the "audiom" drivers?? Those are bass units without the mid cone, very similar to axioms. I got one Audiom 51 last week. Are they good for open baffles?? I see some audioms on ebay from time to time. There are some 51s, 61s, 81s (15 inch), and yes, there are also 18inch 91s!!!! Not very expensive in fact. I´m planning to build "all goodmans open baffles"
Axiom 301 for midrange, super tweeter (unidentified vintage driver from goodmans, probably alnico 4 inch), at the bottom Audiom 51 (maybe as ripol) cut at 250Hz (second order Linkwitz-Riley XO). I will post some photos a.s.a.pderik736 said:Steve thanks for your reply, very interesting. I can´t wait to get them in my hands (probably next sunday)
ok another question. What about the "audiom" drivers?? Those are bass units without the mid cone, very similar to axioms. I got one Audiom 51 last week. Are they good for open baffles?? I see some audioms on ebay from time to time. There are some 51s, 61s, 81s (15 inch), and yes, there are also 18inch 91s!!!! Not very expensive in fact. I´m planning to build "all goodmans open baffles"
Some info..
this is from a 1965 goodmans booklet
axiom 201 13.000 gauss, total flux 87.500 maxwells, 15 watts RMs, some are rated 30-16000 c/s but some are lower 30-12000c/s
there are different whizzers on some
audium 51 magnets/ specs as above except they go up to around 7,000c/s
301, 16,500 gauss, 185.000 total flux, f/r 30-16,000c/s
61. magnet as 301 f/r as 51 above
81 bass 15" flux 14,000 gauss 269,000 total flux 25 watts rms
91 bass 18" on same magnet rated at 50 watts rms
the audioms come to 2 types 35 hz resonant frequency for music reproduction and 55 hz for guitar work
i have a 51- 55z example.. not for hi fi..
a pal used goodmans 301 & 61 4 speakers a cab they used 32 drivers in all..4 cabs using 61 for the bass guitar and another 4 with 301's supported with some horn tweeters for the lead.. he rates them very highly
that was in the early seventies.. many well know groups used them at that time...
he says more 12" where better than less 15" drivers.. the 15 inchers where a bit 'woolly'and not as sharp sounding as the 12" drivers .. i assume the larger cone flexed a little more
I'm am sure the 15 " sound good.. it's when you get them next to each other you can tell, to get them into perspective
The cone /voice coil travel is very small.. they make loud deep bass and you cannot see any cone movement.. thats a good sign
in open baffle you cannot run them near there rated wattage
but 4 watts will play 120+ db peaks with my set up
running two bass speakers in parellel and close together can help lower the resonant fequency of the drivers a little...
the main issue with any mulitple driver speaker is to get them all to work without any or too much electrical correction.. so you need your speakers not to have any large peaks and to all be around the same effiency at the frequencys you want to use them at.. thats why the goodmans 301/61 work with the lowther
the goodmans as far as i can see where very good quality and where reasonably flat..
hope thats some use
steve
Its interesting to see the way to go with the 201's seems to be Open baffle. I too have not really given much thought to OB, due to size, (and lack of experience). I have only built boxed enclosures before, and had more or less settled on rear loaded horns with bass extension in mind. I was fortunate to hear some large OB's in the foyer of the Tonbridge audiojumble a couple of months ago, driven with 211 SET, there was always a crowd around them captivated by the sound. But each of these had 3 drivers, and one of the main reasons I want to use a full range speaker is to use just one driver, and do away with any crossover, or filtering. Is this feasible, or would I be better off buying some more ply and having a go with the OB?
NJE807, you owe it to yourself to at least try open baffle design! This can be as simple as a single sheet of suitable material (chipboard will do for a prototype). It needn't cost much in time or money! Forget the weeks/months of designing and building a boxed speaker.
On open baffle, most drivers need some help in the bass region. I used TL subs originally filling in from about 60-70 hz down. I now have the Augies working in a similar frequency range.
You can run your main driver, ie 201/301 full-range without any crossover so you will be free of that problem throughout the critical frequency range. A fairly simple 4th order active crossover is used for the bass support drivers, and I also recommend a helper tweeter with nothing more than a cap for filter it. It won't be in that critical range so don't worry about the cap being there.
More details of what I did, including the details for the active filter can be found on Decibel Dungeon.
On open baffle, most drivers need some help in the bass region. I used TL subs originally filling in from about 60-70 hz down. I now have the Augies working in a similar frequency range.
You can run your main driver, ie 201/301 full-range without any crossover so you will be free of that problem throughout the critical frequency range. A fairly simple 4th order active crossover is used for the bass support drivers, and I also recommend a helper tweeter with nothing more than a cap for filter it. It won't be in that critical range so don't worry about the cap being there.
More details of what I did, including the details for the active filter can be found on Decibel Dungeon.
NJE807 said:
I thought the same.. i used lowther ex4 in a 3.6 m back loaded horn.. for about 7 years
the sound was very good i thought the bass wass too..
with OB i have lost the forward sound of bl horns .. i think thats a time delay thing now...
but everything else is better..
and they don't need to be big ... in fact smaller can be better in my opinion.. the lowther( in my case) does not need a big baffle and the bass drivers need to be close to the floor to corner load them with the floor in my view
i had no crossovers at all.. by rights all the drivers i used are suitable for use on there own..
i have now lightly rolled off the bass units above 1kz.. that has made the sound a slightly cleaner in the upper mids
my 3 drivers together give more volume than the horns
and there as less dips in the bass, which give far more detail and a much tighter faster bass... without missing bits i didn't know where missing with the horns
steve
Many thanks guys,
I have some 18mm MDF doing nothing, and a couple of days off this week, so I will have a go. I have found a website of JE Labs with a design for the axiom 201, but this is a bit wide at 3 feet. I will try something slimmer, and keep the driver close to the bottom. I will try adding some "wings" as well to see the the extra width is required.
I have some 18mm MDF doing nothing, and a couple of days off this week, so I will have a go. I have found a website of JE Labs with a design for the axiom 201, but this is a bit wide at 3 feet. I will try something slimmer, and keep the driver close to the bottom. I will try adding some "wings" as well to see the the extra width is required.
I finaly got my hands on a set of full (wide) rangers...
A blast from the 60s, the baby Goodmans Axiom 10, rated as15 ohms, 40 to 15000 c.p.s. , 10W Brittish, 20W USA rateing... (lol)
I just auditioned it open proped up on a cushion (which is the only english word other than fashion to end in shion).
Bass was a little thin at first but after planting myself in the nearfield I realised these are voodoo speakers.
They absorb you into the sound to such an extent that the breaks between songs pulls you startled like from a daydream to reality.
They do not like overly complex passages and becomes a bit aggressive with too wild music with the volume up, which I'm sure is mostly becaause they have 0 bass reinforcement at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, there is bass and it goes pretty low as can be expected from a 10" driver, but I think the 40Hz claim is optomistic, and I'd say the quality of the bottom octaves do not mach the mids and highs of this driver, so I might look at some crazy multi amp setup with passive filtering to get things right.
In the midrange I have never heard such dynamics, and anything above the waste of the drummer is top class. I was expecting it to sound lacking in treble, but it does this beautifully, yet diffirent from they sounds I'm used to. To use a visual analogy, it is like most commercial speakers are so bright that you can't see the last mit of surface detail, while these are just a bit to dark to see the last details in something like a symbal.
Brass sounds are out of the world, and small toms etc... wooow.
I can see that this speaker is goingto take a lot of work to only retain the good qualities I am hearing... what it does well it does alot better than the gear I'm used too... what it does worse... is the same too though.
I am highly satisfied though... I think these will end up great... I have never been able to deconstuct the layers of a recording this easily, with paterns previously hiden in the background getting their own voice.
Dave offered to help me find a way to put these to some good use as soon as he gets a break. I just can't wait. Allthough the next two to 3 weeks will be totaly absorbed by the move to my new house.
A blast from the 60s, the baby Goodmans Axiom 10, rated as15 ohms, 40 to 15000 c.p.s. , 10W Brittish, 20W USA rateing... (lol)
I just auditioned it open proped up on a cushion (which is the only english word other than fashion to end in shion).
Bass was a little thin at first but after planting myself in the nearfield I realised these are voodoo speakers.
They absorb you into the sound to such an extent that the breaks between songs pulls you startled like from a daydream to reality.
They do not like overly complex passages and becomes a bit aggressive with too wild music with the volume up, which I'm sure is mostly becaause they have 0 bass reinforcement at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, there is bass and it goes pretty low as can be expected from a 10" driver, but I think the 40Hz claim is optomistic, and I'd say the quality of the bottom octaves do not mach the mids and highs of this driver, so I might look at some crazy multi amp setup with passive filtering to get things right.
In the midrange I have never heard such dynamics, and anything above the waste of the drummer is top class. I was expecting it to sound lacking in treble, but it does this beautifully, yet diffirent from they sounds I'm used to. To use a visual analogy, it is like most commercial speakers are so bright that you can't see the last mit of surface detail, while these are just a bit to dark to see the last details in something like a symbal.
Brass sounds are out of the world, and small toms etc... wooow.
I can see that this speaker is goingto take a lot of work to only retain the good qualities I am hearing... what it does well it does alot better than the gear I'm used too... what it does worse... is the same too though.
I am highly satisfied though... I think these will end up great... I have never been able to deconstuct the layers of a recording this easily, with paterns previously hiden in the background getting their own voice.
Dave offered to help me find a way to put these to some good use as soon as he gets a break. I just can't wait. Allthough the next two to 3 weeks will be totaly absorbed by the move to my new house.
Can some-one please explain why these are so expensive??
A pair of these just sold on Ebay Australia for AUD$5000-
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VINTAGE-RARE...NameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122
Having just discovered how good a simple speaker using a full range driver can be I could justify $200 or so but this seems way over the top, how does the price of this driver compare to the Axiom 10??
A pair of these just sold on Ebay Australia for AUD$5000-
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VINTAGE-RARE...NameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122
Having just discovered how good a simple speaker using a full range driver can be I could justify $200 or so but this seems way over the top, how does the price of this driver compare to the Axiom 10??
The Axiom 80s have a very different (strange) construction and were very high-tech drivers for their day. As I recall, there is no outer surround to the cone, but instead there's a very large multi-spoke spider that is fitted at the front of the speaker and attached to the centre of the magnet.
I've never heard any in use though.
I've never heard any in use though.
The price is right
My 201's cost me £200 about a year ago, and I am glad I bought them when I did. It's worth considering they are still cheap compared to fullrangers from Lowther, and PHY. I have a pair of empty acousta cabs, and with the price of PM6A's, that's the way they are going to stay at the moment. I have been thinking about trying some Visaton B200's in them, as others have found this to be a favourable combination. Anyway I digress. I mocked my 201's up with some chipboard, and found the sound pretty good. A bit thin on the bottom end, but my single ended amps are probably contributing to that as well. I have been collecting other drivers to build some OB's with the Axioms as the main event, and some bass drivers, and supertweeters to help out at each end. I bought some second hand Eminence Delta pro12A's very cheaply, and some Fostex FT17H's. I now have to work out some crossovers. Simple first order passive is what I have in mind.
My 201's cost me £200 about a year ago, and I am glad I bought them when I did. It's worth considering they are still cheap compared to fullrangers from Lowther, and PHY. I have a pair of empty acousta cabs, and with the price of PM6A's, that's the way they are going to stay at the moment. I have been thinking about trying some Visaton B200's in them, as others have found this to be a favourable combination. Anyway I digress. I mocked my 201's up with some chipboard, and found the sound pretty good. A bit thin on the bottom end, but my single ended amps are probably contributing to that as well. I have been collecting other drivers to build some OB's with the Axioms as the main event, and some bass drivers, and supertweeters to help out at each end. I bought some second hand Eminence Delta pro12A's very cheaply, and some Fostex FT17H's. I now have to work out some crossovers. Simple first order passive is what I have in mind.
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/deta...aker_pair_great_sounding_speakers_full_range/
On looking for some more data I saw a classified add running at the moment for the axiom300 for only $200 for the set...These things have some serious alnico magnets on.
Pick up only though in Burlington, Ontario, Canada,
It is sacreledge, but I bet they'd make some fine guitar amp speakers too...
On looking for some more data I saw a classified add running at the moment for the axiom300 for only $200 for the set...These things have some serious alnico magnets on.
Pick up only though in Burlington, Ontario, Canada,
It is sacreledge, but I bet they'd make some fine guitar amp speakers too...
Cheers Nuuk, Yes your 201 adventures have been an inspiration. My original plan was to build some back loaded horns with them, but the simplicity of OB's appeals. I can't make them as wide as I would like, which is the thinking behind adding the woofer, close to the bottom to get as much reflection as possible. I have some 4mH inductors, which should cut them at around 320Hz if I have done my sums right.
NJE807 said:
I leave the 201s to run 'full'range', and have a single 1 uF cap for the tweeters. I'm not currently running the woofers, and in a smallish room (11 feet by 11), and with the right amp, I actually don't feel that I need them. In my larger lounge, I will be using a 4th order active filter on the woofers at somewhere between 60-80 hz.
Very simple with just two amps, one active filter, and one cap.
Boxes is the one thing I'm not short of at the moment...
For some relaxation I taped one up to try some OB goodness... it has some 3mm plywood inside...
Wow does this speaker open up, lots of strong good bass, sure it can be better, but it exceeded my expectations. I understand now what you guys talk of when you say the box sound goes away... it still retains a slight vintage sound though...
Still have a little shoutiness, but I will adress that with an F1 amp and parallel network...
Member
Joined 2006
versions of 201s
Wondered if any one knows that there are two versions of 201s...
My pair have a plastic surround, while I noticed (older version ?) has congrugated paper surround and employing AlNiCo magnets...
Is the older version superior sonic wise? Actually what are the differences?
Many thanks! CFT
Wondered if any one knows that there are two versions of 201s...
My pair have a plastic surround, while I noticed (older version ?) has congrugated paper surround and employing AlNiCo magnets...
Is the older version superior sonic wise? Actually what are the differences?
Many thanks! CFT
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