I'm totally the wrong guy to talk to about OB - while I've heard / built a few over the years, none have come close to floating my boat in an affordable and domestically acceptable fashion. Other forum members will no doubt be happy to regale you with advice in that regard.
My size / stiffness comment was an attempt at puerile humor - as in the old John Holmes' joke "I've got twelve inches, but can't use it, as a rule"
- Perhaps before your time?
As for comparing the Fane 15" driver (essentially a high sensitivity musical instrument device) to the Fostex kit (using a nominally 4" full range driver with approx 12dB less sensitivity) - well they are both moving coil cone transducers, but that's probably about as much as they share in common. The FE103 is a very sweet sounding little driver, but no where near qualified for the task you outlined, and the P1000 BLH isn't the best enclosure for it.
My size / stiffness comment was an attempt at puerile humor - as in the old John Holmes' joke "I've got twelve inches, but can't use it, as a rule"
- Perhaps before your time? As for comparing the Fane 15" driver (essentially a high sensitivity musical instrument device) to the Fostex kit (using a nominally 4" full range driver with approx 12dB less sensitivity) - well they are both moving coil cone transducers, but that's probably about as much as they share in common. The FE103 is a very sweet sounding little driver, but no where near qualified for the task you outlined, and the P1000 BLH isn't the best enclosure for it.
More than likely because I have no idea what you're talking about
I've been trying to find guides to OB design but as usual it is not a straightforward search. Seems like I spend 70% of my time searching for obscure information. How I wish there was a consolidated guide for all things DIY audio. Imagine all of the time and threads that would be spared if the combined knowledge of the DIY audio community was consolidated into a coherent guide. What a thing that would be. Anyway back to reality.I've seen a few things mentioned that a narrow baffle can give better off axis response so I suppose I'll make it as narrow as possible? I need a way to figure out narrow is too narrow.
If OB is giving you grief, then just make as big a closed box as your space allows.
The Fane 15-300TC works well in a sealed box, I use them myself in 80 liter sealed boxes. 80 liters is a bit on the small side, but it works very well, and they sound great.
Just calculate the box out of desired height and desired footprint, and it will work. Again, get 18mm ply, and have a chat with your uncle about some internal bracing.
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And there's not really any need to concern yourself with distance to any walls if building closed boxes. Just try and move them around in the room a bit to get a position/sound you're happy with.
I just mentioned OB because they're easy to build, they do not float my boat either. But OB can work very well for this driver.
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It's not OB that gives me grief it's electrical and acoustic audio design in general. It's a poorly documented area of science that leaves me in an eternal struggle to find information. Don't mind me I'm just rambling.
I think I'd rather do OB than sealed. OB has a higher sound quality than sealed correct?
What do you mean by "internal bracing"? I was under the impression I was to cut a hole in a plank of wood and stand it upright.
I think I'd rather do OB than sealed. OB has a higher sound quality than sealed correct?
What do you mean by "internal bracing"? I was under the impression I was to cut a hole in a plank of wood and stand it upright.
So now I found someone that says the baffles should be as big as possible to prevent acoustic cancellations from the rear? Also saying that the rear reflections add a sense of "airiness" the sound. These seem like conflicting statements. An infinitely large baffle will have no rear reflections to create "airiness".
How do I determine size of the baffle?
How do I determine size of the baffle?
Let me just say this:
Acoustic audio design is not poorly documented. It is just that there is so much information to process and understand that it may seem a little bit overwhelming at first.
OB is not superior to Sealed, the same way Sealed is not superior to Bass reflex, TL, TQWT or any other type of design. It is about design choices, what your goals are and the path you choose to achieve them.
If you really want to make OB, then make the baffles as wide as you can stomach. You should know that unless you have EQ options (and power to liberally waste), the baffle width will largely dictate the bass response, large baffle = deeper bass.
If you want it does not cost me anything at all to simulate some closed boxes for you, it's extremely easy. And I am most certain this will give you a more flexible end result in terms of placement in the room, and probably bass response too.
Edit:
And if you want to get your feet wet with loudspeaker design, best/fastest route is probably reading up on Hornresp:
Hornresp for Dum... hmm... Everyone - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Acoustic audio design is not poorly documented. It is just that there is so much information to process and understand that it may seem a little bit overwhelming at first.
OB is not superior to Sealed, the same way Sealed is not superior to Bass reflex, TL, TQWT or any other type of design. It is about design choices, what your goals are and the path you choose to achieve them.
If you really want to make OB, then make the baffles as wide as you can stomach. You should know that unless you have EQ options (and power to liberally waste), the baffle width will largely dictate the bass response, large baffle = deeper bass.
If you want it does not cost me anything at all to simulate some closed boxes for you, it's extremely easy. And I am most certain this will give you a more flexible end result in terms of placement in the room, and probably bass response too.
Edit:
And if you want to get your feet wet with loudspeaker design, best/fastest route is probably reading up on Hornresp:
Hornresp for Dum... hmm... Everyone
- Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
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I think what I should have said is it it poorly organized. It took me 1.5 years to learn audio electronic theory sufficiently to where I can comfortably design high end amplifiers. I spent countless hours searching for obscure information during this period. In hindsight I could have learned it all in a few weeks if the information was properly organized and easily available.
I've only recently started diving into driver design but the issue remains, lots of information buried in obscurity. Hopefully there isn't as much to concern myself over as there was in electrical design, that was an endless void of information.
Thanks I'll check it out.
I'd say my goal is to have a speaker replacement for my HD800 headphones. I know this probably cannot be achieved on the cheap but I'd at least like to have some similarly high end sound to listen to without being tethered until I get around to building some full range ribbons or something.
Make them wide but not tall? So a full room width baffle would be ideal then?
Hmmm that is quite generous. I think I'll take you up on that offer.
Also I have a question on relative fidelity. How would fane speaker compare to a CBT24 or CBT36 setup in sound quality?
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Headphones are free from room effects. Loudspeakers, not at all, in fact the room impacts the result to a degree that newbies find hard to believe. So your advisors need to know more than what kind of amplifier you are wanting to use. OB and 1 watt is seldom combined unless you are setting up a near field work station.
I would say no, but I'm an opinionated hobbyist not an expert. I do think you are finding the loudspeaker world bewildering because it is just that: almost as diverse as food. What is the best cuisine? Your musical taste is highly varied, so finding the one speaker that will check off the boxes for you will be a process. I want to recommend the big Fane in a big box but I haven't heard it. I do enjoy a vintage pair of 12" full ranges in my garage, but they don't do EDM.
It’s the very low power you speak of being available for this application that will severely limit your options-to either driver type/price, enclosure complexity, or both.
For reference, I think that near-field would be in the neighbour of just under 1 meter (such as a computer desk-top situation), to perhaps 2.5m or so - i.e between 3-8 feet.
For reference, I think that near-field would be in the neighbour of just under 1 meter (such as a computer desk-top situation), to perhaps 2.5m or so - i.e between 3-8 feet.
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Wow, this thread has some steam!
MJK yahoo pages mentioned before are one of the best to learn about OB design. Spend some time there. He also has a FB page now.
For sizing, OB is easy. Make them small to accommodate design of the room or other (often marital) concerns!
Make them as wide and as tall as you can and they will be able to go lower a bit more.
There will always be a reflection from the back, even with very wide baffles, sound bouncing off the wall, ceiling, and finally arriving to you. To me, OB sound more "life-like" than a closed box.
Boxes will always color the sound. Some will do it in a pleasing way, others will make it unlistenable. Plus, with a box, the sound is "projected" toward the listener.
If you listen to a person playing the violin in front of you, the sound irradiate from the instrument, it is not projected in a beam to you. That's what I like about OBs. They irradiate the sound so it feels more realistic, to my ears and head anyway. YMMV.
Of course, it also depends on the recordings, mastering, and quality of the audio stream. So many variables... That's why the information is scattered all over. We usually try to handle one or very few variables at one point, and over time, tackle some of the other variables.
There isn't a single complete "bible" that encompasses everything and tells you that if you build it this way, you will have audio nirvana.
Baby steps.
And until you start building something, and listen to it, this conversation is just words in the air ... When you do, you will be able to say: yes, this is something I like, ... or ... nope, that's not the sound I'm looking for.
MJK yahoo pages mentioned before are one of the best to learn about OB design. Spend some time there. He also has a FB page now.
For sizing, OB is easy. Make them small to accommodate design of the room or other (often marital) concerns!
Make them as wide and as tall as you can and they will be able to go lower a bit more.
There will always be a reflection from the back, even with very wide baffles, sound bouncing off the wall, ceiling, and finally arriving to you. To me, OB sound more "life-like" than a closed box.
Boxes will always color the sound. Some will do it in a pleasing way, others will make it unlistenable. Plus, with a box, the sound is "projected" toward the listener.
If you listen to a person playing the violin in front of you, the sound irradiate from the instrument, it is not projected in a beam to you. That's what I like about OBs. They irradiate the sound so it feels more realistic, to my ears and head anyway. YMMV.
Of course, it also depends on the recordings, mastering, and quality of the audio stream. So many variables... That's why the information is scattered all over. We usually try to handle one or very few variables at one point, and over time, tackle some of the other variables.
There isn't a single complete "bible" that encompasses everything and tells you that if you build it this way, you will have audio nirvana.
Baby steps.
And until you start building something, and listen to it, this conversation is just words in the air ... When you do, you will be able to say: yes, this is something I like, ... or ... nope, that's not the sound I'm looking for.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I'd use the headphone amp for headphone duty, and get something else that can drive any pair of speakers, regardless of efficiency. It's not like there's a shortage of cheap, decent sounding amps on the market.
jeff
Yeah but none of them touch the performance of my amp. I'm dead set on using my design to drive whatever speaker I use.
I'm going to assume based on the things that have been said since my last response that the Fane driver will not deliver very good fidelity?
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