That is a pretty bad idea. Sure you can connect signal ground to PE but this is an excellent way of creating a ground loop. And to get rid of the hum people might be tempted to disconnect PE from the other piece of equipment to break the loop. What you have then is a very dangerous situation.
PE means Protective Earth, should be used for that very purpose and NOTHING else.
I agree with you. As an example I can mention the music system at our student lab. It used to be powered by 240 VAC through a 9-pin DSUB!
That was because the guy who built the system (a very competent analog designer BTW) used an old piece of scrap metal as the rear panel with DSUB holes already drilled out and he didn't want to spend time cutting an IEC inlet hole.This works perfectly until some fresh students 5 years later want to disconnect the preamp coz' the lab is moving to another building. Although nothing happened you rarely expect a DSUB to carry the mains...
I don't get some of the attitudes here. Nobody is saying anybody MUST do anything. But where is the problem in discussing the accepted ways of building anything electronic safely?
As with all threads, it is the individual's perogative as to whether they read the posts or reply to any of them. If you just make hi-fi for yourself, fine, you don't have to read this thread if you don't want to but don't condemn the thread on the grounds it doesn't interest you.
Nor would I Peter but it has happened and will probably happen again. BTW - are you saying that you do your commercial GC's differently?
Carlos, I agree the loudspeaker terminal issue is not as important as say grounding the metal case but it still falls into the thread topic of safety so why not address it?
As with all threads, it is the individual's perogative as to whether they read the posts or reply to any of them. If you just make hi-fi for yourself, fine, you don't have to read this thread if you don't want to but don't condemn the thread on the grounds it doesn't interest you.
Nor would I Peter but it has happened and will probably happen again. BTW - are you saying that you do your commercial GC's differently?
Carlos, I agree the loudspeaker terminal issue is not as important as say grounding the metal case but it still falls into the thread topic of safety so why not address it?
Nuuk said:
None of my commercial amps features insulated binding posts. As long as non insulated posts will be avilable, I will continue using them. Majority of my amps are sold in North American markets and it was never a problem here. I tried to push for patented binding posts, but my business partner doesn't like them.
I hope you understand my approach.
Dear GC friends:
Some of you seems to be interested in the security topic. And everybody is welcome (Carlos!).
But: this thread was really not intended to DISCUSS safety topics or some sound discussions. It was intended as informational thread about safety norms! Nothing else.
Personal opinions are not interesting here, really (they could be dangerous)!
The idea from me was simply, to build up a permanent informational thread for newbies, about safety.
We cannot ask the mod, to cleanup this thread, to much work!
Thats why, I will make a second attempt, I will try to start a good security thread within some days.
It seems to be very important, to have a good starting text for this topic, so I want to take time for it.
I will read the whole thread and resume all the informative topics and links, we had here.
You can me contact by mail, in the meantime. With good subjects, I will filter the messages out of my spambox franz dot gysi at tiscali dot ch
Franz
P.S.
could be, the next thread begins like this:
"I want to start a second try, to start a thread, to inform every newbie and old chipclone freaks about safety.
Please, don't ask, why some safety norms are existing, I'll tell you right here in three sentences:
The worst case is as simple as this: what goes in, can come out.
So: when you connect your DIY gainclone to the mains (110V/220V, does not matter), then in the worst case, you can have the same voltage somewhere on your amp.
It is dangerous, could be lethal.
What we already found out, in the first try of this information thread:
Three major points:
- The mains connection and all cabling at the primary side, including very good PE (protective earth) connection from the box.
- Output connectors
- Input connectors"
Some of you seems to be interested in the security topic. And everybody is welcome (Carlos!).
But: this thread was really not intended to DISCUSS safety topics or some sound discussions. It was intended as informational thread about safety norms! Nothing else.
Personal opinions are not interesting here, really (they could be dangerous)!
The idea from me was simply, to build up a permanent informational thread for newbies, about safety.
We cannot ask the mod, to cleanup this thread, to much work!
Thats why, I will make a second attempt, I will try to start a good security thread within some days.
It seems to be very important, to have a good starting text for this topic, so I want to take time for it.
I will read the whole thread and resume all the informative topics and links, we had here.
You can me contact by mail, in the meantime. With good subjects, I will filter the messages out of my spambox franz dot gysi at tiscali dot ch
Franz
P.S.
could be, the next thread begins like this:
"I want to start a second try, to start a thread, to inform every newbie and old chipclone freaks about safety.
Please, don't ask, why some safety norms are existing, I'll tell you right here in three sentences:
The worst case is as simple as this: what goes in, can come out.
So: when you connect your DIY gainclone to the mains (110V/220V, does not matter), then in the worst case, you can have the same voltage somewhere on your amp.
It is dangerous, could be lethal.
What we already found out, in the first try of this information thread:
Three major points:
- The mains connection and all cabling at the primary side, including very good PE (protective earth) connection from the box.
- Output connectors
- Input connectors"
Yes I do! I don't want to give the impression that I am on a crusade to ban the use of existing binding posts, I'm not and have just built a GC for somebody else that uses them.
I am only saying that as somebody was killed, albeit due to their own stupidity, the subject is fair game for inclusion in a thread about safety.
Thanks for the effort to make a most useful thread to a relative newbie like me. I've got a working GC, but could go back into it and make some changes to clean up the novice work and make sure I've got it as safe as possible.
p.s. Good luck, Franz, Nuuk, etc. on keeping the new thread touchy-ego free.
p.s. Good luck, Franz, Nuuk, etc. on keeping the new thread touchy-ego free.
Hello all,
CE marking has been evoked in this thread. Fine, I have a couple of questions about it
From what I understood, this marking is not reserved to professional equipment. A DIYer may have his equipment CE too. I read that people juste have to auto-declare than the concerned stuff is CE-compliant. Of course, if one declares that his stuff is CE-compliant but it's not, it's a fraud!
I think this marking can be of interest vs. house insurance.
Now, to my questions:
- what are the practical rules behind this marking? For example, I know that there must be a minimum distance between line and neutral on a PCB, a minimum track width, and a minimum distance between line/neutral tracks and case (if metal case).
- does someone know of a book that covers practically CE marking? The rare books I found were only doing bla-bla about legal issues and so on...
- Why are EMC-related books so horribly expensive?
- Is there an EMC expert in this room?
CE marking has been evoked in this thread. Fine, I have a couple of questions about it
From what I understood, this marking is not reserved to professional equipment. A DIYer may have his equipment CE too. I read that people juste have to auto-declare than the concerned stuff is CE-compliant. Of course, if one declares that his stuff is CE-compliant but it's not, it's a fraud!
I think this marking can be of interest vs. house insurance.
Now, to my questions:
- what are the practical rules behind this marking? For example, I know that there must be a minimum distance between line and neutral on a PCB, a minimum track width, and a minimum distance between line/neutral tracks and case (if metal case).
- does someone know of a book that covers practically CE marking? The rare books I found were only doing bla-bla about legal issues and so on...
- Why are EMC-related books so horribly expensive?
- Is there an EMC expert in this room?
I cannot answer your question about practical rules.
But something very important about the self made CE declaration:
- First, the device has to be safe, whatever that means...
- Second: the manual is a very important part of the declaration!
Within this manual the most important point is: it must describe the normal usage (German: Bestimmungsgemässe Benutzung).
If this is missing, the declaration is fake.
Franz
P.S.
You can buy CE stickers from Conrad
But something very important about the self made CE declaration:
- First, the device has to be safe, whatever that means...
- Second: the manual is a very important part of the declaration!
Within this manual the most important point is: it must describe the normal usage (German: Bestimmungsgemässe Benutzung).
If this is missing, the declaration is fake.
Franz
P.S.
You can buy CE stickers from Conrad
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