Sure, when it's time.
In this informal case of audio testing, I think it is perfectly valid to point out what other Diyaudio listeners have observed (so far only me) so that everybody can be on the same page and compare notes.
I have said that the differences are on first inspection relatively fine and some may have trouble 'getting it', but once you do you will hear these errors in systems everywhere you go daily.....much like Mark's quote about a producer? lamenting being able to hear stuff others don't.
The upside is that there is ready solution to bad/irritating sound at the office, supermarket, restaurants, pubs etc.
Mostly I say only "this prototype may or may not change your sound", sometimes I say "this prototype might change your sound".
In the case of musicians/buskers/sound engineers I let them call fit/remove/restore...etc and they play what they want of course.
In the case of playback systems I let the subject choose the tunes and make the calls.
When the subject is done, I often get a range of quizzed looks and always a bunch of so far universally positive reactions and appraisals.
Most of the time I also get "where do I get some and how much ?".
The simple act of presenting a mysterious device and clipping it onto cables is perhaps instilling positive bias in itself, but the appraisals/descriptions make moot such argument ime.
Dan.
There are other tracks to choose from, pick one as I linked in a previous post if you like.
What is your preferred music ?.
Dan.
What if in some instances after you are done talking about installing the device you flip a coin and either install the device or a placebo. Or better yet, leave and send back your assistant to install it who does not know if it is placebo or not? Or better, have the assistant flip the coin, write down the result, and seal it in an envelope?
That would be a lot more like a scientific experiment.
In addition: You are a charmer, even in print. I don't know if your physical presence adds or detracts from that. You have said to us that this has been tried on thousands of people with good results.
So, long as you write in a way that tends to make people like you, exude confidence that it works, and assure people that it is unquestionably proven, it tends to set people up to be suggestible.
Effects like that have significantly skewed results in medical research with doctors who are, like you, enthusiastic, charming, and perhaps charismatic.
Because of that, you should find a way to remove those things as factors, and not even know yourself which trial is real or placebo until after you collect data or have observed how well it appears to be working. Preferably, you should not find out until the experiment has ended and you are moving to a data analysis phase.
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Dear Dan,
I tried hard, but they all sound the same to me. Thanks anyways for posting. Would there be a way to conduct a really well controlled listening test on your end? Because you adhere to your views with so much dedication, please go about it the scientific way and try to falsify your thesis. Asking for confirmation from friends in an uncontrolled environment will never lead to even the semblance of proof.
Good luck with your experiments,
Best,
Paul
I tried hard, but they all sound the same to me. Thanks anyways for posting. Would there be a way to conduct a really well controlled listening test on your end? Because you adhere to your views with so much dedication, please go about it the scientific way and try to falsify your thesis. Asking for confirmation from friends in an uncontrolled environment will never lead to even the semblance of proof.
Good luck with your experiments,
Best,
Paul
So you got my little joke....West Australia is known as the 'Wait Awhile' state....we like it that way.I SO get where you're coming fromPerth - The most remote city in the world? | .id blog
Sixteen thousand kilometres of pristine beaches to choose from and infinite perfectly fresh ocean air.
Perth and throughout the southwest is quite interesting, northern parts have another set of (rugged) charms.
Kinda makes Penrhyndeudraeth look small with it's two beaches and all.
Which part of town are you from...the drained swamp or the drained lake ?.
Dan.
Thanks for giving it a go.
Yes, it's not too hard to do a formal blind test, just that I haven't bothered to do so.
Informal sighted and blind tests have been rigorous enough in fact for the degree of testing I require at this stage.
Proof enough for me in my present context, agreed this is not acceptable as any formal proofs and that does not matter at present.
Thank you Paul.
Formal blind testing is but a formality in establishing reliable audibility.....informal testing shows it ought to pass just fine.
Yes, of course. Although we don't know what it is, we can be certain that it won't affect audio and it won't make identical files different. For that you need a Maxwell demon, which already appears in known physics and has been used in other audio gizmos.Max Headroom said:
This thread is amazing. The master fairy hunter has now pursuaded other people to search at the bottom of their own gardens, although he has already explained any failure to find fairies.
Electron spins actually. The theory of ferromagnets probably comes in about the second or third undergraduate module on the quantum theory of solids. I have forgotten all that but it will be something to do with spin-orbit coupling meaning that aligned spins are (somewhat surprisingly) a lower energy state than alternative configurations.
If you wish to communicate with others using words then private meanings of words are not usually a good idea.Max Headroom said:
No physics here, but a lot of psychology.
If you want to understand "deep reasons" you first have to understand the basics, so attend the first two years of a physics degree (or study the appropriate books) to prepare yourself. If not, do not dismiss an explanation as being inadequately "deep" when at present you could not even understand a shallow explanation.
Indeed. I have followed the discussion. I'm quite willing to do experiments of all sorts but there is a limit. This particular case breaks that so I will not even try because I would not be the same person afterwords I think...
//
Thanks for posting the files.
Compared Standard to Treated 1.
Listened for differences in percussive, layered, loud and soft passages and the bass intro and the song fade out through T's iDAC and Linkwitz's Sony MDR-EX51LP headphones:
Oh well, no luck for me. I feel like the same person!
Cheers!
Compared Standard to Treated 1.
Listened for differences in percussive, layered, loud and soft passages and the bass intro and the song fade out through T's iDAC and Linkwitz's Sony MDR-EX51LP headphones:
Oh well, no luck for me. I feel like the same person!
Cheers!
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Sure, why not, I should try it some time.
The kind of people I have demo'd to call a spade a spade and are not the suggestible types and can spot a smarmy salesman a mile off.
I am polite in person and in print, but I wouldn't say I am a charmer....I'm too honest in nature to give bs or to receive bs.
Mark, at this point in time hard data regarding real time comparison audibility is simply not required, but certainly it will be into the future.
My mission now is to gain formal insight into the physical processes involved supporting subjective observations.
To this end today I spent an hour or more demoing and discussing my IP with a local uni physics prof.
This fellow readily heard differences caused by placing the filters on the phone>portable speaker line level signal cable, and also noted differences between HHAP wav files stored on my phone.
He also noted differences when demo'd LED lighting.
This has piqued his interest and my task now is to come up with a suitable measurement jig for use with his labs VNA's and then we will see what we can find and progress from there.
Audio is just one application in an ocean, if we can prove mechanisms for observations in further fields there are interesting times ahead.
Dan.
Pant yr ynn, Pool Street
I went out with a girl from Perth for 9 months, she was a little bit dumb, it took her that long to realise that I wasn't in the business of providing for her
Hi Dan,
No offense intended. Just doing my duty to tell you what a friend should tell a friend. I will drop it for now. Please continue with Reaper when you get a chance. Happy to help if you have any questions. You can PM if you like.
Mark
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