Most of the differences are due to gain and clipping. Given that, no valid comparison of the AC cables can be made.
An possibly interesting experiment would be to import both sound clips into a program like Reaper. Then adjust the gain of the tracks until VU or loudness metering shows audience noise is the same for both clips. Listened to that way, the more clipped "good" version may sound worse instead of better.
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Is not quantum mechanics the root of the observations and effects as described by the relevant equations.
I meant cables in the context of AC power cables as is the context of the current discussion, not signal cables.
Why would the last two metres of AC supply cable inductance or capacitance matter, and what constitutes 'not too high, not too low' inductance and capacitance for the job at hand, ie supplying say an amplifier with 200W total output, ditto for line level gear drawing say 30W load.
AC power is generally unbalanced, so what would be the optimal cable configuration and why ?.
Dan.
Yes, you're soo right! That's exactly what marketing of dubious so called high end stuff like Quantum Bybees, fabulous power and speaker cables, handwound audiophile capacitors, electrolytics for aMUSEment etc. relies on!
Best regards!
Sure, which means they should work to counteract clipping and blooming artifacts as much as possible.
In any case, obvious gain changes in favor of the cable being promoted would seem to raise reasonable suspicions.
Sure, that's true for everything. But, if your old mechanical watch was losing time, would you look to quantum mechanics to help you fix it? Is it useful to require watchmakers to be fluent with quantum mechanics? No, to both questions.
So, why invoke a theory requiring quantum mechanics for something you don't understand? Because you don't understand quantum mechanics either?
Consider that it is possible for a fully intact cow to suddenly disappear and reappear on the surface of the moon. That is not strictly prohibited by theoretical physics. All we can say is it probably won't happen once in the entire life of the universe, but it still could happen since it isn't prohibitied.
Similarly, the chance of two identical digital files that are bitwise identical sounding audibly different due to something that happened in history of one of them is so small that it will probably never ever happen once. Much less, happen over and over again. So, if you think that is happening, you are really looking in the wrong place in quantum mechanics.
For one thing, every time you move a file around, you are making a copy of it and maybe deleting the old version. All the old subatomic particles that it consisted of are constantly changing as the file is moved. There is nothing quantum mechanical that moves with it.
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Not so fast, I highlighted 7.15s to 8.15s (snare hit and roll) and did blind AB and picked up slight perceived average level differences and adjusted the 'brighter' sounding passage down 0.5dB.
With the 'average' level sounding near as dammit the same, there are still quite distinct differences in the attack and decay characteristics of these transient type sounds with the 'brighter' passage giving better depth detail, and the 'duller' passage sounding excess noise noisier thus losing resolution.
The peak difference in the lead in background noise is in the order of 2dB or so according to Audacity peak hold, much greater than the perceived average differences. That said this difference in BG noise level could conspire to reduce lower signal levels perceived resolution, but not so much the change in attack/decay of music room sound.
Dan.
Dan, if there are volume level changes that don't look accidental, how do you know the only other thing that was changed was an AC cable?
For example, if whoever was doing the audio recording had a volume level knob, how do you know there weren't tone control knobs too?
What if the amplifier was rigged in some way that could operated by the person doing the demonstration?
Lot's of possibilities for trickery.
Personally, I have no confidence that there were no other shenanigans going on. If somebody wanted to fool a bunch of people in a situation like that, it would be extremely easy to do. Especially, if selling an expensive product that is unlikely to have any dramatic effect.
There is at very least what would be called "reasonable suspicion" that something like attempted fraud has occured . Certainly enough evidence to warrant careful investigation. (All in my personal opinion, of course)
For example, if whoever was doing the audio recording had a volume level knob, how do you know there weren't tone control knobs too?
What if the amplifier was rigged in some way that could operated by the person doing the demonstration?
Lot's of possibilities for trickery.
Personally, I have no confidence that there were no other shenanigans going on. If somebody wanted to fool a bunch of people in a situation like that, it would be extremely easy to do. Especially, if selling an expensive product that is unlikely to have any dramatic effect.
There is at very least what would be called "reasonable suspicion" that something like attempted fraud has occured . Certainly enough evidence to warrant careful investigation. (All in my personal opinion, of course)
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Well Dan and Soongsc, I thought that I might add my opinion to the mix on your side. I believe that open listening is one of the most important ways to detect audio differences. It is what we are seeking, is it not? Now, what has surprised me in the past, is that AC cable differences can make an audible difference, and sometimes not the way or in the direction that I would initially expect it to change (if any). In any case, we hear what we hear, and that is reality as I know it.
Dan, I have spoken to you off line and I know that you are on a quest with your new findings, that are similar to what Jack Bybee has found. Keep up the effort, some day you might be praised for it. I think that your example recently of a college PhD fits a number of people here. They can't think their way outside of a textbook, and are unwilling to trust their ears in any case.
I actually appreciate your bringing up cable differences, because I have gotten lazy and have not tried testing them for years. I wonder what the OPPO that I have would be best with?
Dan, I have spoken to you off line and I know that you are on a quest with your new findings, that are similar to what Jack Bybee has found. Keep up the effort, some day you might be praised for it. I think that your example recently of a college PhD fits a number of people here. They can't think their way outside of a textbook, and are unwilling to trust their ears in any case.
I actually appreciate your bringing up cable differences, because I have gotten lazy and have not tried testing them for years. I wonder what the OPPO that I have would be best with?
I believe whats required are decent (not expensive) connectors and 13 amp flex. A slightly thicker earth conductor might have made for the tiny difference i once heard in a mains cable but that was running a power amp. Noise floor may have been a little lower due to better case grounding but nothing i could measure. I heard no difference with my sources or my pre amp. D
Exactly. For one thing, the mic isn't even pointing the same way....
The final killer for me is some of the errors in his speech before the "demo".
It reminds me that Lord Kelvin, was one of the worst 'know it alls' in history. To be sure, he had a lot of learning and he moved science forward for a time, BUT it is also known that he tried to discourage Darwin, dismissed trying for heavier than air aircraft, X-rays (perhaps only in the beginning) etc. when within 10 years of his criticisms, new evidence or experience proved him wrong. They used to say back in his day that science will only move forward after the deaths of those in power for scientific thought. Still happens today.
And sales of superglue.
I love the smell of cyanoacrylate in the morning.
Smells like... Snake oil.
I'm sure the veterans of this thread can relate to this. Combatting BS with Science.
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Plenty of counter examples. Just take a look at covers of Popular Mechanics of the 50's and 60's or maybe the Segway is going to change the way urban dwellers live and work forever. Maybe someday you'll realize how silly it is to compare the development of our basic scientific foundations with garage tinkering audio nuts.
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Maybe so. But, if a piece of equipment is sensitive to AC cables somebody should investigate and find out why and under what circumstances. At least record the difference into your sound card and let's hear it. Otherwise, we have nothing but talk, which is not helping move forward towards better understanding and more agreement.
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