planet10 said:The Omnes sensitivity is probably optimistic... to get that high efficiency one would likely need an 8" or larger, which probably limits you to Fertin or Supravox. A new contender would probably be the 9" Feastrex, but it may not like an OB, you need seriously deep pockets, and it would probably be a waste restricting it to such a narrow band. As well it would be very challenging to find woofer & tweeter that would mate with it.
Relaxing things a bit further efficiency wize to bring the price down to what mere mortals can afford, the Visaton B200 with phase plugs is a good candidtae. A 5k XO is pretty low thou.
dave
I think I'd need a pair of those minimum for high output (120 db). If I do that the rising response won't be so bad and the treble won't matter much.
"I was thinking that myself! The dust cap is "Zurette" what ever that means??? Maybe it's there to cause the peak for guitar? I think I'll carefully cut one out and see. "
I suspect it will help a lot. The dustcap looks huge on that driver for no good reason compared to the size of the voicecoil.
I suspect it will help a lot. The dustcap looks huge on that driver for no good reason compared to the size of the voicecoil.
Caferacer said:"I was thinking that myself! The dust cap is "Zurette" what ever that means??? Maybe it's there to cause the peak for guitar? I think I'll carefully cut one out and see. "
I suspect it will help a lot. The dustcap looks huge on that driver for no good reason compared to the size of the voicecoil.
Thanks, I think you are right, I love the midrange but the top end is a bit ragged, The answer to my Wide Range mid may already be here...
AER's MK1 is 103dB/W it's an 8 incher.
Quite beamy up high which is the ONLY thing I don't like about it. in the right box it'll do 40Hz with ease. Bass you can feel with 1 watt, it's bizarre.
not sure how it's response is OB, but you have 3dB to throw away with a filter.
I'd run it up till it starts getting beamy then XO to something special with it's own amp. I think around 15k but it's been about a year since I listened to one. If you're in the right seat in the room at the right height they're magical. It's what got me back into audio again.
Quite beamy up high which is the ONLY thing I don't like about it. in the right box it'll do 40Hz with ease. Bass you can feel with 1 watt, it's bizarre.
not sure how it's response is OB, but you have 3dB to throw away with a filter.
I'd run it up till it starts getting beamy then XO to something special with it's own amp. I think around 15k but it's been about a year since I listened to one. If you're in the right seat in the room at the right height they're magical. It's what got me back into audio again.
John L said:I know that this driver only has a 94db rating, but have you been following the B20 scene lately? Lots of neat little mods that turn this inexpensive 8" driver into a custom fireplug.
IIRC it is actually closer to 90 in real life
dave
Magnetar said:So if you guys were to pick the best 'Wide Range' driver for use between 120 and 5K what would you use? It would be electronically high passed and used on open baffle...Hemp Cone
Magnetar said:high QTS (for use on a baffle) no rising response, 100 db sensitivity and can handle some power with little to no coloration,
Magnetar said:six to ten inch
In order of price
Omnes 8"
Hemp FR8
Visaton B200
Supravox 165/215 RTF (not bicone)
Supravox 215 Signature
Veravox 7x
Fertin 20D
but I would consider a freq. response of 60-10k (2 octaves wider than your specs) so that your bass and hf drivers can be easier integrated. Also consider a driver with a minimlar breakup as this will allow you to integrate the HF driver without using a LPF filter on the widerange.
BTW what bass and hf drivers do you have in mind.
inrank said:http://www.spectrumaudio.de/breit/omnesaudio/omnesaudioL8.html
i used them on a relatively small baffle, about 18"
can that baffle be folded so say somethng like 12-15" wide with 3-4" wings on either side?
planet10 said:The Omnes sensitivity is probably optimistic...
by how much? about 3db? that would bring it to the same level as the Fertin 20D.
navin said:Omnes 8"... by how much? about 3db? that would bring it to the same level as the Fertin 20D.
I haven't measured mine, but holding it in your hand, it gives the impression that it should be relatively cheap, and i'd be surprised if efficiency is over 92 dB. But that is just seat of the pants.
dave
I think that most of those fullrange drivers will not be efficient enough for you (especially below 1KHz or so). This fostex looks rather nice: http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/ff225k.pdf but it has really small xmax.. maybe using 2 per side? From pro drivers this one seems interesting http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/PM250.pdf and really 100dB! There are some distortion measurements of this driver on german forum that looks very nice..
navin said:
but I would consider a freq. response of 60-10k (2 octaves wider than your specs) so that your bass and hf drivers can be easier integrated. Also consider a driver with a minimlar breakup as this will allow you to integrate the HF driver without using a LPF filter on the widerange.
BTW what bass and hf drivers do you have in mind.
can that baffle be folded so say somethng like 12-15" wide with 3-4" wings on either side?
by how much? about 3db? that would bring it to the same level as the Fertin 20D.
Thanks!
I don't like the idea of crossing the treble in that high or crossing the bass to mid that low for various reasons. Mostly I don't think there is a single driver that will have that efficiency and power handling over that range on an open baffle, and if it did I think I'd be compromising in IM distortion that I find clearly audible and irritating. I quad amp with horn loaded low bass.
The baffle can be any size, here is the bass section: five 16 ohm woofers in parallel -
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have several HF drivers - ribbons AMT, compression drivers/tweeters - the best sounding is the B&C DH10 in a Transylvania slotted tube. It's best used above 3K and has plenty of sensitivity and wide dispersion.
sumacSK said:I think that most of those fullrange drivers will not be efficient enough for you (especially below 1KHz or so). This fostex looks rather nice: http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/ff225k.pdf but it has really small xmax.. maybe using 2 per side? From pro drivers this one seems interesting http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/PM250.pdf and really 100dB! There are some distortion measurements of this driver on german forum that looks very nice..
Thanks,
That curve, resonance specs and efficiency reminds me of the B&C 6.5" driver I have loaded in the tractrix horn in the picture above. It fullfills what I seek but does not radiate as a true dipole due to being front horn loaded and only is usable to 350 cycles. I suspect the Ciare would also require horn loading to cover the range and would have weak low midrange mounted on a boaed.
Hi, have no idea of quality more than read some ppl have built OB's, with their 15 inchers with good result from this supplier.
Good prices though!
http://www.traumboxen.de/ad-audio/v8020.htm
http://www.traumboxen.de/ad-audio/m6515.htm
Good prices though!
http://www.traumboxen.de/ad-audio/v8020.htm
http://www.traumboxen.de/ad-audio/m6515.htm
Hi,
I wonder if 12" alnico guitar speakers like tone tubbys ,celestion blue or
the speakers of Ted Weber could be interesting as widerangers?
Brought in discussions for some times ,but who has build
something with these so far ?
Maybe some tweaking like cone treatment,ENABLing or phaseplugging
would be worth giving a try.
I think of something like the Bastanis Atlas but with drivers mentioned above.
Open back HF compression driver for true dipole treble looks like an interesting approach,too.
Stand alone bass dipoles for frequencies below 100Hz.
This could help keeping the mid/high baffles as narrow as possible.
Worth giving it a try?
regards
Simon
I wonder if 12" alnico guitar speakers like tone tubbys ,celestion blue or
the speakers of Ted Weber could be interesting as widerangers?
Brought in discussions for some times ,but who has build
something with these so far ?
Maybe some tweaking like cone treatment,ENABLing or phaseplugging
would be worth giving a try.
I think of something like the Bastanis Atlas but with drivers mentioned above.
Open back HF compression driver for true dipole treble looks like an interesting approach,too.
Stand alone bass dipoles for frequencies below 100Hz.
This could help keeping the mid/high baffles as narrow as possible.
Worth giving it a try?
regards
Simon
I cut the dustcap out of the lil' buddy driver and away went the treble peak, now they go out to 2.5 k go down 3db and stay level out to 6-7K and then roll off nice and smooth. So they sound better but don't extend out too far. Now I might make a 1.75" phase plug. Seems like this driver will be hard to beat for a high efficiency Wide Range mid on an open baffle if I can get the top end straightened out a bit.
Re: Phase Plugs were easy
Candles eh? Never thought of that one before. Good flexibility there Magnetar.
Magnetar said:Found some old candles the right diameter, shaped them, smoothed them out and glued them in with silicon glue so they're removable, it brought the top end up a couple of db
Candles eh? Never thought of that one before. Good flexibility there Magnetar.
Re: Re: Phase Plugs were easy
Probably temporary - I'll probably melt them with Marley - Wonder if I could find some (these are green! - that will smell like hemp when the music gets rolling? These ARE hemp cones...
John L said:
Candles eh? Never thought of that one before. Good flexibility there Magnetar.
Probably temporary - I'll probably melt them with Marley - Wonder if I could find some (these are green! - that will smell like hemp when the music gets rolling? These ARE hemp cones...
I found mine from a 1 1/3" wooden drapery pole, which you can find at Lowes or Home Depot, in the drapery section. Have you tried this yet? Of course, the size of your voice coil may be larger or smaller.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Now someone get two 12" Alnico hemp cone Tone Tubbys and do the same thing.
That is the reason why I asked if someone already made experiences with these drivers(OK,not exactly with green candles)
Unfortunately too expensive to buy some tubbys or webers and find it doesn´t work
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