I guess I was hoping that using the dsp with auto eq/align would let me skip having to drag a computer out to the living room, install and learn REW and then manually adjust EQ...
Mr. Bates, that was my original plan, I do have a 10 band analog eq. But best to me sounds different on different pieces of music, and I'm not sure I have the golden hearing required to get it right. For instance, I did notice the Fane was shouty, but adjusting eq I had a hard time finding a "neutral" setting - it was either shouty, or it wasn't shouty at all but sounded muted in that freq range. The resolution on the eq I have isn't terribly good, its maybe +/-8 or 10 or 12 db, I forget, but the total adjustment range is probably 1.25" or something. So I'm under or over adjusting things. I still need to sort out the hiss that the analog EQ adds too, haven't had time to try grounding it or shielding it as of yet, so I've just been listening to things au naturel.
Mr. Bates, that was my original plan, I do have a 10 band analog eq. But best to me sounds different on different pieces of music, and I'm not sure I have the golden hearing required to get it right. For instance, I did notice the Fane was shouty, but adjusting eq I had a hard time finding a "neutral" setting - it was either shouty, or it wasn't shouty at all but sounded muted in that freq range. The resolution on the eq I have isn't terribly good, its maybe +/-8 or 10 or 12 db, I forget, but the total adjustment range is probably 1.25" or something. So I'm under or over adjusting things. I still need to sort out the hiss that the analog EQ adds too, haven't had time to try grounding it or shielding it as of yet, so I've just been listening to things au naturel.
Last edited:
Ok, just got the first fane into a sealed box, with minimal stuffing inside (leftovers from helper woofer cab). Sounds pretty good, frighteningly loud, lol. Played with eq a bit and dropping the 4k a bit seemed to tame the shout to a reasonable level - its certainly nowhere near flat, as anticipated, but its fixable.
It does sound best off axis, the tweeter level highs on axis can be a bit much. I'm thinking a bit more eq, and of using a type of acoustic lens to spread the pinpoint highs a bit horizontally. You guys remember the old slant plate design that JBL used? That's my intention.
It does sound best off axis, the tweeter level highs on axis can be a bit much. I'm thinking a bit more eq, and of using a type of acoustic lens to spread the pinpoint highs a bit horizontally. You guys remember the old slant plate design that JBL used? That's my intention.
Attachments
Visaton B200 has the same issue. Dustcapectomy & phase plugs added transform the driver.
dave
that double whizzer Fane has a papery extended high-end on axis and sounded good tho no low end in my K12 (about 35L back chamber) with bonded Dacron damped vent slits - no perceptible "boom". K12's aperture would have little effect upon the central HF beam. A Harvey & Kock style plate lens would be worth a try - are you going to try covering most of the speaker at first? - or a mini lens to take care of only the whizzer and inner cone area? (seems natural)
A K-tube can be suspended right in front of the whizzer - just far enough never to be bumped by the cone - would be goofy with a direct radiator
(that did work to some degree in an 8 inch klam to pipe the highs out of the chamber)
A K-tube can be suspended right in front of the whizzer - just far enough never to be bumped by the cone - would be goofy with a direct radiator
(that did work to some degree in an 8 inch klam to pipe the highs out of the chamber)Dave, i had thought about making a phase plug for the fanenn but wasnt sure how much sound was produced by the dome of the dustcap itself (like a dome tweeter?). Also, plenty of reading on folks cutting on the 12lta, but none that I've seen on the fane 12-250tc.
Freddi, i forgot to mention i was also going to try a TP tube type K-tube too
Yes was thinking lens over just covering the 2nd (larger) whizzer, but widthwise across the whole driver to mount to the baffle out there.
Freddi, i forgot to mention i was also going to try a TP tube type K-tube too
Yes was thinking lens over just covering the 2nd (larger) whizzer, but widthwise across the whole driver to mount to the baffle out there.
(I don't have a scanner anymore) - in G.A. Briggs book "Loudspeakers", the Kock and Harvey lens covered the whole speaker - quite "deco" in appearance. You might bring up the subject of spacing and shaping plate lens on other diyAudio forums (Weltersys would know)
a K-tube probably would get directional in the the top octave
as long as you perceive the on axis highs as hot, you've got a chance to spread them
here's my Fane in a K12 - not in there anymore - never got a 2nd driver and mucking with horns anyhow- when I tire of the horns
then will return to Ks - top-end was not excessive to me in K12 - but the baffle tilts back 25 degrees in this model (30 in earlier and some later K12)
https://i.imgur.com/Qqzo0QV.jpg
a K-tube probably would get directional in the the top octave
as long as you perceive the on axis highs as hot, you've got a chance to spread them
here's my Fane in a K12 - not in there anymore - never got a 2nd driver and mucking with horns anyhow- when I tire of the horns
then will return to Ks - top-end was not excessive to me in K12 - but the baffle tilts back 25 degrees in this model (30 in earlier and some later K12)
https://i.imgur.com/Qqzo0QV.jpg
Last edited:
I have done enuff whizzer cone drivers to have a fair level of confidence that it is a good idea in all whizzer cone drivers.
dave
I should try that Fane in a vented K12 - a fudge sim indicates it could do 125dB 1 pi and have built in BSC https://i.imgur.com/X9hoY57.jpg
Something like this is what I was picturing for the acoustic lens. I need to dig into the design stuff more, all I've found thus far is that the space between plates is the ceiling for the highest frequencies affected, 1/2wavelength = space between plates. So 5/16" should cover up to about 20k Hz. Angle and overall length (depth) of the plates would affect what the time differential coming off them would be, and thus what the degree of "bending" would be. Width of the plates, I'm not so sure... but they do mention them needing to be open on the sides, maybe just to avoid reflections? I need to find that fellow Freddy mentioned next I guess, if I'm to go that route.
Dave, you think just the phase plug would improve dispersion that much?
Right now it might be like a 20 deg spread... something like 60 deg might be good. I have to admit I'm pretty nervous about trying to cut off the dustCAP...
Or I could just do both I suppose, it's a trip to the machine shop either way.
Jesse
Dave, you think just the phase plug would improve dispersion that much?
Right now it might be like a 20 deg spread... something like 60 deg might be good. I have to admit I'm pretty nervous about trying to cut off the dustCAP...
Or I could just do both I suppose, it's a trip to the machine shop either way.
Jesse
Attachments
FWIW, me and others have [stretch] suspended felt or rigid polyfil discs or cones or completely covered the driver and cut holes as required to dampen/diffuse a driver's 'shout' [my fave] whereas the plate diffuser needs to be calculated to get good results. The design math is [was?] on the net, but couldn't find it quickly, just this: https://mniec.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/acoustic_lens_1.jpg
GM
GM
Thanks GM, that's probably worth a try in the interim to see if it breaks up the highs... But not as cool as the acoustic lenses
I didn't find any math for them when I was looking, I was looking at the same document you found. Here's the full document:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/acoustic_lens.pdf
Here's that fellow's rendition of it:
[DIY] Small Acoustic Lens
And his design, which he was kind enough to put the plans up for:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/plan.pdf
I'm not sure what his level of expertise is with these things, maybe he is well known over here or in similar circles? At any rate, he seemed rather pleased with them and their performance.
Here's a JBL ad for them:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ee/b8/7d/eeb87d1d590fe561b68036a36417b03c.jpg
which shows the slant plate design and also shows the corrugated plate design.
Initially I was going to pursue the corrugated design thinking it would be easier to just cut out some corrugated roofing sheet metal or something, but I didn't find anything I quite liked after looking at the store.
Here's another JBL ad for them which also shows the perforated sheet design:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1974-pro/page18.jpg
Fundamentally, all 3 designs do the same thing. I considered all of them at one point or another - a simple horizontal lens would be easy to do with the perforated design and a few sheets of it which could be just clamped together with spacers for experimenting. Ultimately, I didn't have anything laying around that I could use to make one, and did not find any formulas or direction on how to design one for X amount of dispersion, given an input dispersion of Y.
Cool stuff for sure!
I didn't find any math for them when I was looking, I was looking at the same document you found. Here's the full document:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/acoustic_lens.pdf
Here's that fellow's rendition of it:
[DIY] Small Acoustic Lens
And his design, which he was kind enough to put the plans up for:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/plan.pdf
I'm not sure what his level of expertise is with these things, maybe he is well known over here or in similar circles? At any rate, he seemed rather pleased with them and their performance.
Here's a JBL ad for them:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ee/b8/7d/eeb87d1d590fe561b68036a36417b03c.jpg
which shows the slant plate design and also shows the corrugated plate design.
Initially I was going to pursue the corrugated design thinking it would be easier to just cut out some corrugated roofing sheet metal or something, but I didn't find anything I quite liked after looking at the store.
Here's another JBL ad for them which also shows the perforated sheet design:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1974-pro/page18.jpg
Fundamentally, all 3 designs do the same thing. I considered all of them at one point or another - a simple horizontal lens would be easy to do with the perforated design and a few sheets of it which could be just clamped together with spacers for experimenting. Ultimately, I didn't have anything laying around that I could use to make one, and did not find any formulas or direction on how to design one for X amount of dispersion, given an input dispersion of Y.
Cool stuff for sure!
you might ask WHG as he has a positive view of the slant plate lens when used correctly. Here's an old thread: Horn lens experience - mixing lows and highs with a JBL 2390
I'd imagine the very top to drop quite a bit 10 degrees off axis (?) - will have to mount mine and measure, Something like a cardboard disc or other shape with an open vertical slot 1/2" wide suspended in front of the whizzer could be tried. (without a plug behind the slot there might be a new cavity resonance -? - maybe poke some small holes in the cardboard baffles)
that Fane was pretty well balanced in my K12, maybe a bit bright and not nasty rough like a direct radiator AN10.
fwiw, I like to listen to rainstorm sounds and hear timbre changes as one goes off central axis. The Karlson K-tube does pretty well of sounding closer to real than some systems.
I'd imagine the very top to drop quite a bit 10 degrees off axis (?) - will have to mount mine and measure, Something like a cardboard disc or other shape with an open vertical slot 1/2" wide suspended in front of the whizzer could be tried. (without a plug behind the slot there might be a new cavity resonance -? - maybe poke some small holes in the cardboard baffles)
that Fane was pretty well balanced in my K12, maybe a bit bright and not nasty rough like a direct radiator AN10.
fwiw, I like to listen to rainstorm sounds and hear timbre changes as one goes off central axis. The Karlson K-tube does pretty well of sounding closer to real than some systems.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.