With external enclosure dimentions measuring 23"H x 27"D x 46"W, and using 1" MDF, total internal air space before the port, bracing and drivers will be 13.4 cu.ft. The port will be taking up about .9 cu.ft. of space on its own which will leave .5 cu.ft. for the drivers and bracing to use, getting the total internal air space down to 12 cu.ft. after displacement.
If this is cutting it a little too close for bracing and driver displacement, I can always build the enclosure up a little taller. If I go to my MAX height of 27" (external) the enclosure will be 15.9 cu.ft. before any displacement, so I have plenty of room if needed.
Does anyone know how much air space these Dayton 15DVC drivers displace? Also, how much extra space should I give myself for extensive bracing?
If this is cutting it a little too close for bracing and driver displacement, I can always build the enclosure up a little taller. If I go to my MAX height of 27" (external) the enclosure will be 15.9 cu.ft. before any displacement, so I have plenty of room if needed.
Does anyone know how much air space these Dayton 15DVC drivers displace? Also, how much extra space should I give myself for extensive bracing?
Ok, new problem...
I have retired my Def Tech loudpspeakers as the mains and have reinstated my Klipsch Cornwalls which are considerably larger. So in other words, my current subwoofer design is not going to fit.
I was thinking, what kind of bass response can I expect from building two towers for the subs and the drivers actually mounted about 3' and 6' above the floor? The towers will be installed in the two front corners of the room directly behind the Cornwalls.
Building the towers would allow me to conceal the enclosures with red curtains on either side of my 9' projection screen.
If I use .75" MDF, I can build them (outside dimensions) 90" tall, 23" wide and 12" deep. Internally, this will give me 11.6 cu.ft. of airspace before driver and bracing displacement.
Also, with the enclosures being 90" tall and 23" wide, I can still tune them to 12Hz and only have one bend in the port, with the port running along side the drivers and the opening exhausting at the bottom of the enclosures on the floor.
Any suggestions and/or thoughts?
I have retired my Def Tech loudpspeakers as the mains and have reinstated my Klipsch Cornwalls which are considerably larger. So in other words, my current subwoofer design is not going to fit.
I was thinking, what kind of bass response can I expect from building two towers for the subs and the drivers actually mounted about 3' and 6' above the floor? The towers will be installed in the two front corners of the room directly behind the Cornwalls.
Building the towers would allow me to conceal the enclosures with red curtains on either side of my 9' projection screen.
If I use .75" MDF, I can build them (outside dimensions) 90" tall, 23" wide and 12" deep. Internally, this will give me 11.6 cu.ft. of airspace before driver and bracing displacement.
Also, with the enclosures being 90" tall and 23" wide, I can still tune them to 12Hz and only have one bend in the port, with the port running along side the drivers and the opening exhausting at the bottom of the enclosures on the floor.
Any suggestions and/or thoughts?
I'm getting ready to add two more Dayton Quatro 15s to my basement... Two are probably enough, but I bought four when they were on sale...
And I just bought a Crown XLS602 from Guitar Center on sale for $249.99.
I had been using a pair of the PE 240 watt plate amps to drive the subs (5.5 cubes, ported to 18.5), and I knew things would be different...
1) Crown amp sounds a LOT better. More detailed bass.
2) Blackhawk Down's Irene scene, even at reduced volume, made me HIGHLY aware that the pro amps do not have rumble filters installed. 5hz bass is VERY interesting to watch. And it looks like the only way to get one is to build it myself.
If you hear of a pre-built sub-20hz 2nd order or better rumble filter, please let me know.
And I just bought a Crown XLS602 from Guitar Center on sale for $249.99.
I had been using a pair of the PE 240 watt plate amps to drive the subs (5.5 cubes, ported to 18.5), and I knew things would be different...
1) Crown amp sounds a LOT better. More detailed bass.
2) Blackhawk Down's Irene scene, even at reduced volume, made me HIGHLY aware that the pro amps do not have rumble filters installed. 5hz bass is VERY interesting to watch. And it looks like the only way to get one is to build it myself.
If you hear of a pre-built sub-20hz 2nd order or better rumble filter, please let me know.
chops said:
Okayyyy.... I noticed you are planning on using a pro amp, and I thought I would let you know about a possible problem, and whammo... I guess that'll teach me to think... but I'll play nice-nice...
FWIW, and you can check SVS, etc., on this... The "Irene" scene in Blackhawk Down has some _very_ low, and _very_ loud 5hz bass... And I had to watch it to see what it'd do. With the volume way down, about 18 below where I normally have it set for movies... Granted, it ain't gonna seem "loud," but it was really darn trippy watching a pair of drivers maxing out that slowly. Looked like a 3d movie. If I had not known what to expect, I likely would have had a pair of dead drivers.
If you're like me, your previous subwoofer amps had subsonic rumble filters built in. In my case, a 2nd order at 20hz... Yeah, you lose a little, but it protects your drivers from severe overexcursion. If you'll look at a typical WinISD plot, you'll notice that in ported design, cone excursion typically peaks, drops, and then goes through the bloody roof. Sealed speakers don't do this - but the excursion goes up at a higher frequency, albeit with a shallower slope, and it stays up....
Heat doesn't generally kill subs. Excessive travel is what does it. I have a friend who has done it to a pair (and not simultaneously either...) of Adire Tempests in a 340 litre sonotube. Next time I house sit for him, I'm gonna cut about 3' off the puppy...
Now, if you're going to figure on underpowering them, that's one way of minimizing the problem. Just looked at four 15" DVCs. IIRC, you have them in oversized boxes. It'll probably sound nice. But if you do not put in a hard cut down way low, the first time you hit some very low loud LFE/HT/Telarc 1812 bass, and you and your friends are watching something nice and loud, you're gonna have some dead speakers. With four DVC 15s, in 24 cubes total, I'm getting some impressive numbers - but with a sizable signal at 5hz, you're going to be running 'em 50mm... And I think WinISD figures one way... Oops.
Now, running the four drivers sealed in 18 cubes, with 700 watts available, and a Qtc in the low sevens gets you darn near the same performance, and your speakers are within xmax limits down to 5hz...
So, the bottom line - I'm going have to locate/build a filter to cut my low end... If I go 2nd order, I'll probably place it about 17hz or so... Yeah, I'll miss out on ultra low stuff, but I won't be buying new drivers every time I have a party.
Oh yeah - as for volume... My front speakers each get 300 watts (bridged Hafler 2xx amps), and my sides and rears are run from some Hafler DH-500s... I was using a pair of 240 watt plate amps to run the subs, but now I've got the XLS602... So I think I can play loud enough... I'm just going for more clarity and definition with the subs now... I _did_ see a remarkable improvement going from the 240s to the pro amp. But without the low end protection, I'm going to be playing it safe for the time being.
Not the point at all.
I have been running sealed, ported and even open baffle subwoofers in my systems for years now with regular home audio or pro audio amps, with and withouth subsonic filters. I know what to expect and I know what the drivers will do at what levels and at what frequencies.
WinISD measures in both 1-way and p-p. You have to set it the one you want.
The amp I'll be getting has a peak output of around 600W @ 2 ohms per channel, and it has a built-in bypassable subsonic filter @ 12Hz.
I was not referring to volume. What I was getting at was that most preamps, receivers, amps, whatever; they may be rated to 5Hz or even 2Hz, but once that volume is turned up to a normal listening level, the bass freq resp of that equipment usually rises very rapidly and you only really have bass extension down to about 12Hz or 15Hz, not 5Hz.
My main point to your first post is that it had absolutely nothing to do with what I was asking about.
And since no one seems to like me here anymore (which I don't care either way) I already found my answer from a much better, more reliable source.
I have been running sealed, ported and even open baffle subwoofers in my systems for years now with regular home audio or pro audio amps, with and withouth subsonic filters. I know what to expect and I know what the drivers will do at what levels and at what frequencies.
WinISD measures in both 1-way and p-p. You have to set it the one you want.
The amp I'll be getting has a peak output of around 600W @ 2 ohms per channel, and it has a built-in bypassable subsonic filter @ 12Hz.
I was not referring to volume. What I was getting at was that most preamps, receivers, amps, whatever; they may be rated to 5Hz or even 2Hz, but once that volume is turned up to a normal listening level, the bass freq resp of that equipment usually rises very rapidly and you only really have bass extension down to about 12Hz or 15Hz, not 5Hz.
My main point to your first post is that it had absolutely nothing to do with what I was asking about.
And since no one seems to like me here anymore (which I don't care either way) I already found my answer from a much better, more reliable source.
And who is that amazing source? BTW, you don't need to be rude with everyone in there.
To answer your question, both drawings would work. Length for a port with a corner, you calculate the average length, in the center of the corner. Then since your port ends on one side of the box, you add half the diameter of the port to the length.
To answer your question, both drawings would work. Length for a port with a corner, you calculate the average length, in the center of the corner. Then since your port ends on one side of the box, you add half the diameter of the port to the length.
I've got a friend who has a 15" DVC in a 340 litre sonotube - replaced a couple of adire drivers. It'll go VERY low, and sounds reasonably nice, but if he runs it loud, he's gonna tear it apart. I haven't tried one of those in a sealed box yet. Right now, I'm running a pair of 3 cubic foot boxes with Quatro 15s under my maggies, and I really like them.
hi Bogie, i've heard alot about the Quatros for HT. and i was thinking of replacing my Atlas 12 with a 15" driver but, i will be using for 2 channel home music system and was just wondering if it would be an upgrade? or would i loose some SQ. which is my main goal. the Quatro seems to plot out pretty nice in BassBox 6 Pro. but as always, the human ear makes the best tool for sound judgement! thanks for any input. 
For now, I'm running a single Dayton 15DVC driver in a 4 cu.ft. sealed enclosure. When I first built it, I was using one of those cheap 250 watt Rythmic Audio plate amps. Those amps suck and it made the sub sound like garbage. Fortunately the dumb thing died. Now it's just sitting on the back of the enclosure filling the hole I made for it.
Now I'm powering it with an old Technics SU-8099 integrated amp which is only giving the sub 115 watts per VC and now the sub sounds excellent. It plays a heck of a lot cleaner with a lot more detail, it blends in better with the rest of my system, plays louder and lower and is just an all-around great sounding sub now.
If you decide to replace that Atlas with the Dayton, just be sure to stay away from that Rythmic junk. Use a good quality amp and you'll be happy.
Now I'm powering it with an old Technics SU-8099 integrated amp which is only giving the sub 115 watts per VC and now the sub sounds excellent. It plays a heck of a lot cleaner with a lot more detail, it blends in better with the rest of my system, plays louder and lower and is just an all-around great sounding sub now.
If you decide to replace that Atlas with the Dayton, just be sure to stay away from that Rythmic junk. Use a good quality amp and you'll be happy.
Don't be shy at throwing power at 'em. You're going to overexcurse them before you melt 'em, and they'll self-destruct that way LONG before you let the magic smoke out by nuking the voice coils... My "150 watt rated" home theater speakers are fed between 255 and 300 watts apiece - I don't "use" it all, but it's all clean.
One of my next projects is to find a larger fanless amp for my maggies. They're only getting a Hafler DH-200, but it is SO clean, and it'll run 125 wpc before clipping into 8 ohms, so with the four ohm maggie load, I'm guessing 175-200ish... I'd like to stick a 400wpc amp on 'em.
One of my next projects is to find a larger fanless amp for my maggies. They're only getting a Hafler DH-200, but it is SO clean, and it'll run 125 wpc before clipping into 8 ohms, so with the four ohm maggie load, I'm guessing 175-200ish... I'd like to stick a 400wpc amp on 'em.
one amp i for sure, stay away from is the PE 240 watt. i don't know if i had a lemon or not but the amp had to be run at about 3/4 gain to get much out of it which many, have complained about. also, there are two 1/4 watt resistors in that amp that run extremley hot! when i say hot, i mean they cooked black and crumbled? the coating fell off of them and this is at idle with no input. i don't know if anyone else has looked inside of theirs or not but, might want to sometime! i was told by the company that was normal? i'm no EE. but, i know enough about electronics to know 1/4 watt resistors running that hot to where they cook black and fall apart is for sure, not normal. also the amp was never pushed hard in this small room of mine. so that turned me away from those particular model amps for sure hehe! thanks for the replys!
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