Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Carcass construction
heheh tweaking is like practicing aikido. it's all about redirecting the energy in a pleasing and effective way. it sure can be time consuming!
but i've found that the more time i spend working a build, the more beautiful it becomes. there is a definite flow from my hands and i guess "spirit" into the piece. i've heard it called "wu" but i don't know what that translates to exactly.
very satisfying...unless the client is riding you hehe
Nelson Pass said:
heheh tweaking is like practicing aikido. it's all about redirecting the energy in a pleasing and effective way. it sure can be time consuming!
but i've found that the more time i spend working a build, the more beautiful it becomes. there is a definite flow from my hands and i guess "spirit" into the piece. i've heard it called "wu" but i don't know what that translates to exactly.
very satisfying...unless the client is riding you hehe
Use glue and wood dowels
Using wood dowels along with glue not only helps strengthen but helps align your panels. Get 1/4" diameter dowels that are 1" long from any hardware store. They have ridges or grooves along the length to provide small glue lines down the length of the dowel. Just drill a hole the same diameter or a hair larger, and 1/2" deep, put some glue in the hole before inserting the dowel, and use a toothpick to smear some glue on all inner sides of the hole before inserting the dowel. Also smear the dowel's ridges before inserting it. If a piece of wood is slightly warped, you can use dowels to help hold it in line. You can also use biscuits but with dowels you don't need an electric tool like a biscuit joiner. Just be sure to drill holes at a vertical 90 degree angle. If you make a mistake you can just drill a new set of holes another inch further down. Since it is inside a joint it wont be seen, and you can cut a dowel in half, and glue into the holes that were a mistake, or simply fill them with glue.
Using wood dowels along with glue not only helps strengthen but helps align your panels. Get 1/4" diameter dowels that are 1" long from any hardware store. They have ridges or grooves along the length to provide small glue lines down the length of the dowel. Just drill a hole the same diameter or a hair larger, and 1/2" deep, put some glue in the hole before inserting the dowel, and use a toothpick to smear some glue on all inner sides of the hole before inserting the dowel. Also smear the dowel's ridges before inserting it. If a piece of wood is slightly warped, you can use dowels to help hold it in line. You can also use biscuits but with dowels you don't need an electric tool like a biscuit joiner. Just be sure to drill holes at a vertical 90 degree angle. If you make a mistake you can just drill a new set of holes another inch further down. Since it is inside a joint it wont be seen, and you can cut a dowel in half, and glue into the holes that were a mistake, or simply fill them with glue.
Thanks for the reply guys. I bought some corner clamps yesterday so I started just glueing the panels that are 90 degrees to each other. I was going to use screws on the pannels that are not seen or the ones that get covered by a nother pannel. I just did not know if the intorduction of metal from the screws would do anything to the sound. But the dowl idea is a good one. I think they sell jigs that will space a dowl the same distance apart so everything is even. I might have to look into that. Thanks again.
John
John
I have been looking into getting a biscuit joiner for a while now. But I would think it would take a lot of measurement to do a butt joint in the middle of a pannel. But I went to a wood shop yesterday just to look around and check out dowls and found new ones out there that look interesting. They are called the MILLER Stepped Dowel System and they look interesting. They have three of four steps to the dowl and come with a special drill bit to make that shape in the panels. So the new plan is to glue all the joints and then screw them to have a nice tight joint. Than once the glue is dry pull the screws out and drill out the screw hole with this stepped drill bit and put in the dowls. The dowls come in different woods and birch is one of them. I am using birch plywood to make the boxes. I will let you guys know how it turns out and maybe post some pictures. But it will be a while because I don't have too much freetime to work on them which sucks because I want to know how these will sound.
bisuit joins
Yeh, just bought a biscuit joiner to! my intention is to just use these to join/connect all internal baffles to front, top and back (two units to “interlock” – various operations) as a reasonably rigid structures.
Once the front/top/internal & back/internals are built I simply glue and place them onto one side, then glue and clamp other side and base into position (one operation).
I’ll probably use biscuits to locate/fix front, back, top and bottom panels to sides but will not try biscuit joins on internal edges. Which would probably cause too many line up points at one hit.
Yeh, just bought a biscuit joiner to! my intention is to just use these to join/connect all internal baffles to front, top and back (two units to “interlock” – various operations) as a reasonably rigid structures.
Once the front/top/internal & back/internals are built I simply glue and place them onto one side, then glue and clamp other side and base into position (one operation).
I’ll probably use biscuits to locate/fix front, back, top and bottom panels to sides but will not try biscuit joins on internal edges. Which would probably cause too many line up points at one hit.
FE167E cabinet?????
Having bought the necessary sheets to cut and build the FE166ES-R recommended BLH ……. I’m changing my mind. Yes, I will build this cabinet but as the drivers first home I thought I might try the Fostex cabinet for the FE167E .. just think it look cute (hu?).
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/recom_enclose/167e_enclrev.pdf
Yes, I know I’m probably not going to get the best performance, otherwise Fostex would have recommended this cabinet, but as a bit of fun … would it really be detrimental to have a go???
Having bought the necessary sheets to cut and build the FE166ES-R recommended BLH ……. I’m changing my mind. Yes, I will build this cabinet but as the drivers first home I thought I might try the Fostex cabinet for the FE167E .. just think it look cute (hu?).
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/recom_enclose/167e_enclrev.pdf
Yes, I know I’m probably not going to get the best performance, otherwise Fostex would have recommended this cabinet, but as a bit of fun … would it really be detrimental to have a go???
Driver Mounting
I won't get to start my carcasses until sometime after March 19. My wife is the auction committee chair for our kids' school so I'm the weekend social director of our brood until her event is over. BTAIM, I've been able to go over the Fostex BLH design, lay out 5x5 cut sheets (PDFs are attached, if anyone is interested), and figure out mounting and hardware.
I took one look at the tiny screws that came with the 'ES-Rs, thought about those honkin' huge magnets, and tossed them in the back of my junk box. I bought a set of threaded inserts from Rockler to use with 8x32 Hex head bolts (still looking for those but have been told that Ace is the place).
I'm planning to put the inserts in through the back side of the baffle. The thinking here is that tightening the bolts will pull the inserts into the wood, providing a more rigid coupling of the driver to the front baffle.
Well, thats what I came up with. I'm wondering what the pros on this forum are doing.
I won't get to start my carcasses until sometime after March 19. My wife is the auction committee chair for our kids' school so I'm the weekend social director of our brood until her event is over. BTAIM, I've been able to go over the Fostex BLH design, lay out 5x5 cut sheets (PDFs are attached, if anyone is interested), and figure out mounting and hardware.
I took one look at the tiny screws that came with the 'ES-Rs, thought about those honkin' huge magnets, and tossed them in the back of my junk box. I bought a set of threaded inserts from Rockler to use with 8x32 Hex head bolts (still looking for those but have been told that Ace is the place).
I'm planning to put the inserts in through the back side of the baffle. The thinking here is that tightening the bolts will pull the inserts into the wood, providing a more rigid coupling of the driver to the front baffle.
Well, thats what I came up with. I'm wondering what the pros on this forum are doing.
Actually, I cant even seem to find dowels that are 1'' long. All I can ever find is 3/4.'' You dont necessarily want to put all of your dowels in at a perfect 90 degrees. If you have the board laying flat on a table in front of you, and the other board you are trying to connect is facing up parrallel to your body, having a slight angle on the dowels to the left and right (not up and down bc that could send it through the side of the wood) will sorta hold the wood in place and make it impossible to pull appart without ripping the dowels/wood.
Re: Driver Mounting
Those threaded inserts are great. I've used them for other non-audio projects. Just make sure you drill perfectly perpendicular holes for them. Be careful when threading them in...they can tend to go in a little crooked sometimes. And if you're flaring or beveling the inside of the mounting hole, leave some room for the four locations.
The tee-nuts are good, too. I used those out of necessity, since I already assembled my prototypes without installing any mounting hardware. The inserts are a little tough to do after the fact.
And thanks for the cutting diagrams!
Smashatoms said:
Those threaded inserts are great. I've used them for other non-audio projects. Just make sure you drill perfectly perpendicular holes for them. Be careful when threading them in...they can tend to go in a little crooked sometimes. And if you're flaring or beveling the inside of the mounting hole, leave some room for the four locations.
The tee-nuts are good, too. I used those out of necessity, since I already assembled my prototypes without installing any mounting hardware. The inserts are a little tough to do after the fact.
And thanks for the cutting diagrams!
This is what I did to backcut my front baffle. I used a wood rasp to do the backcutting. I installed the T- nuts before glueing up the speaker. As was mentioned, drill the holes straight and somewhat oversized. I would also suggest adding some glue to the tee nut to make sure it doesn't fall out. I had one fall out and had to use a hack saw to remove the driver; talk about nerve racking.
Attachments
Re: Re: Driver Mounting
For those who might put my cut sheets to use, please note the following:
Part 26 is the one below the number.
The part labled 38 and 11 is part 11. The one below is part 38.
Parts 2, 3, 6, and 7 have been eliminated since its possible to cut 1 meter sides from 5x5 stock.
The parts are laid out to give left-right grain on the top and the steps at the bottom of the horn. The steps at the top of the horn will have vertical grain.
I cross referenced my layout against the Fostex plan and am pretty confident that all the parts are there. Please double check before you put saw to wood.
Keith
tmmuch said:
For those who might put my cut sheets to use, please note the following:
Part 26 is the one below the number.
The part labled 38 and 11 is part 11. The one below is part 38.
Parts 2, 3, 6, and 7 have been eliminated since its possible to cut 1 meter sides from 5x5 stock.
The parts are laid out to give left-right grain on the top and the steps at the bottom of the horn. The steps at the top of the horn will have vertical grain.
I cross referenced my layout against the Fostex plan and am pretty confident that all the parts are there. Please double check before you put saw to wood.
Keith
Re: Re: FE167E cabinet?????
I'm afraid I do not have any design knowelge and the only software I have is WinISD Pro. So I loaded the old FE167E driver and changed the parameters I had on the brief FE166ES-R spec. The BR box is about 7.7 litre volume, so at about 50 Hz tuning this is what I got.
Am I going in the correct direction? port length seem longer than original design at nearly 50cm (close to floor)?
planet10 said:
I'm afraid I do not have any design knowelge and the only software I have is WinISD Pro. So I loaded the old FE167E driver and changed the parameters I had on the brief FE166ES-R spec. The BR box is about 7.7 litre volume, so at about 50 Hz tuning this is what I got.
Am I going in the correct direction? port length seem longer than original design at nearly 50cm (close to floor)?
Attachments
Re: FE167E cabinet?????
I put my 166esr drivers into this 167 BR enclosure. I figured that a little series resistance would bring up the qts of the 166esr enough to work in this BR. My intention was to use this BR only temporarily to break in the drivers while I was building a more permanent enclosure. I'm glad I did this because I learned a few important things.
First, here are my biasis. I'm a total newbie. I've listened to a pair of Ohm F speakers for almost 30 years. These speakers use a single Walsh driver that radiates the sound 360 degrees. It has its problems, but it has a very open sound. Recently one of my speakers died. Since I don't have $4,000 to spend on a new set, I decided to try the DIY route. But, I'm not sure that a conventional driver can duplicate this sound. Anyway, here's what I learned about the 166esr in a 167 BR cabinet.
1) This cabinet has a very small sound. Although I have a large listening room, I doubt that this BR would even work in a small room. The 166esr was designed for a BH, so I'm guesing (hoping!) that it will work better in a BH.
2) There may be a problem with cone excursion in this BR. I don't have any way to measure the cone excursion, but it sure looks like more than 0.6 mm when the volume is turned up.
3) It is possible to dramatically alter the sound quality of the driver with passive EQ. When I first listened to this speaker, it was very shrill. So shrill that I couldn't even stand to be in the same room when it was playing. Even after 100 hours this speaker was still shrill. Well, it turned out that my old Hafler DH-200 amp was the problem. After reading Nelson Pass' article on passive EQ (Thanks Nelson!), I started fiddling around with passive ressitance and found that I could make this speaker much more enjoyable. It still had a small sound, though.
4) The highs fall off dramatically with distance. After passive EQ, the highs were shrill at a distance of 4 feet. At 8 feet, they were just right. At 15 feet they were almost gone! This worries me a bit because the highs of my old Ohm Fs still sounded good at a distance of 30 feet.
Well, I hope I haven't discouraged you from building these cabinets!
Sincerely,
Rich Raymond
greenie512 said:
I put my 166esr drivers into this 167 BR enclosure. I figured that a little series resistance would bring up the qts of the 166esr enough to work in this BR. My intention was to use this BR only temporarily to break in the drivers while I was building a more permanent enclosure. I'm glad I did this because I learned a few important things.
First, here are my biasis. I'm a total newbie. I've listened to a pair of Ohm F speakers for almost 30 years. These speakers use a single Walsh driver that radiates the sound 360 degrees. It has its problems, but it has a very open sound. Recently one of my speakers died. Since I don't have $4,000 to spend on a new set, I decided to try the DIY route. But, I'm not sure that a conventional driver can duplicate this sound. Anyway, here's what I learned about the 166esr in a 167 BR cabinet.
1) This cabinet has a very small sound. Although I have a large listening room, I doubt that this BR would even work in a small room. The 166esr was designed for a BH, so I'm guesing (hoping!) that it will work better in a BH.
2) There may be a problem with cone excursion in this BR. I don't have any way to measure the cone excursion, but it sure looks like more than 0.6 mm when the volume is turned up.
3) It is possible to dramatically alter the sound quality of the driver with passive EQ. When I first listened to this speaker, it was very shrill. So shrill that I couldn't even stand to be in the same room when it was playing. Even after 100 hours this speaker was still shrill. Well, it turned out that my old Hafler DH-200 amp was the problem. After reading Nelson Pass' article on passive EQ (Thanks Nelson!), I started fiddling around with passive ressitance and found that I could make this speaker much more enjoyable. It still had a small sound, though.
4) The highs fall off dramatically with distance. After passive EQ, the highs were shrill at a distance of 4 feet. At 8 feet, they were just right. At 15 feet they were almost gone! This worries me a bit because the highs of my old Ohm Fs still sounded good at a distance of 30 feet.
Well, I hope I haven't discouraged you from building these cabinets!
Sincerely,
Rich Raymond
Re: Re: FE167E cabinet?????
Rich, thanks you very much for the reply - that was exactly what I was looking for and had a feeling that FE166ES-R driver and FE167E cabinet might clash. Yes you have put me offf - but only with this combination at some other time I'll try FE167E in the BR cabinet as a matching pair.
Did you see my previous post about retuning cabinet - do you think it'd make any difference?
I was tooled up for the full BLH anyway but in a moment of boredom got distracted .. must try and remain focused on the here and now?
rray786 said:
Rich, thanks you very much for the reply - that was exactly what I was looking for and had a feeling that FE166ES-R driver and FE167E cabinet might clash. Yes you have put me offf - but only with this combination at some other time I'll try FE167E in the BR cabinet as a matching pair.
Did you see my previous post about retuning cabinet - do you think it'd make any difference?
I was tooled up for the full BLH anyway but in a moment of boredom got distracted .. must try and remain focused on the here and now?
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