We DID make some efforts to make the prize go to someone deserving which reading about the event would have clarified.
The grand prize was the tweeters or two of the great amps from Nelson Pass. The first winner decided on the cases as he had no interest in ribbons- he prefers a DIY speaker design that doesn't use ribbons. yet he was interested in amps. Letting them choose was an effort to encourage people to get what they wanted. The tweeters were the most expensive item there. If we did as you suggested and this guy was just trying to maximize profit he would have entered the raffle for the tweeters, so what is the advantage there? How do we know what manner he is acting until after the event?
I distributed some items via silent auction, not so much to raise money but because I felt only someone interested would want to pay to bid. I didn't want to auction the tweeters because they would have probably gone for hundreds of dollars and the "little guy" wouldn't have had a chance. The risk either way was someone would sell them, but there was also the possibility that they would go to someone who could use them. Now they are available- for hundreds of dollars, but available.
Why are we necessarily never going to hear how they perform? Who is going to buy them other than a DIY'er? Someone would buy them to put on a shelf? Buy them and blow them up? We should encourage someone who is serious to work out a deal and buy them- We need to assure that any member that buys them isn't insulted. They would be bringing them back to what they are intended to be.
The suggestions as to how to better the process are not a huge improvement IMHO , so the demand to "do it" is a bit presumtuous I think.
The tweeters were a very small part of a great day. That day is diminished by this cosntant second guessing and invective.
The grand prize was the tweeters or two of the great amps from Nelson Pass. The first winner decided on the cases as he had no interest in ribbons- he prefers a DIY speaker design that doesn't use ribbons. yet he was interested in amps. Letting them choose was an effort to encourage people to get what they wanted. The tweeters were the most expensive item there. If we did as you suggested and this guy was just trying to maximize profit he would have entered the raffle for the tweeters, so what is the advantage there? How do we know what manner he is acting until after the event?
I distributed some items via silent auction, not so much to raise money but because I felt only someone interested would want to pay to bid. I didn't want to auction the tweeters because they would have probably gone for hundreds of dollars and the "little guy" wouldn't have had a chance. The risk either way was someone would sell them, but there was also the possibility that they would go to someone who could use them. Now they are available- for hundreds of dollars, but available.
Why are we necessarily never going to hear how they perform? Who is going to buy them other than a DIY'er? Someone would buy them to put on a shelf? Buy them and blow them up? We should encourage someone who is serious to work out a deal and buy them- We need to assure that any member that buys them isn't insulted. They would be bringing them back to what they are intended to be.
The suggestions as to how to better the process are not a huge improvement IMHO , so the demand to "do it" is a bit presumtuous I think.
The tweeters were a very small part of a great day. That day is diminished by this cosntant second guessing and invective.
Hi Variac,
Thanks for clarifying everything with a level headed and sensible approach.
I can see how you're stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one, and I'm not sure there's an easy solution to the problem.
Maybe a raffle isn't the best format for prize giveaways? I'd imagine if you had awarded the RAAL's to the builder of the "best in show" pair of speakers, your chances of success would be much higher. Alternatively, you could award gift certificates that might encourage further building, while being difficult to sell, like a prototype run of PCB's, or a $200 Digikey spending account for amp builders. I know these aren't perfect examples, but it might be a start. There's a big difference between winning something because you earned it, and winning something through a stroke of luck. The latter leaves the prize with very little sentimental value.
Sounds like it was a great event, and I might have to plan a vacation to SF which happens to coincide with next years BAF... I'll tell my wife at the last minute what the plans for the weekend are!
Cheers,
Owen
Thanks for clarifying everything with a level headed and sensible approach.
I can see how you're stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one, and I'm not sure there's an easy solution to the problem.
Maybe a raffle isn't the best format for prize giveaways? I'd imagine if you had awarded the RAAL's to the builder of the "best in show" pair of speakers, your chances of success would be much higher. Alternatively, you could award gift certificates that might encourage further building, while being difficult to sell, like a prototype run of PCB's, or a $200 Digikey spending account for amp builders. I know these aren't perfect examples, but it might be a start. There's a big difference between winning something because you earned it, and winning something through a stroke of luck. The latter leaves the prize with very little sentimental value.
Sounds like it was a great event, and I might have to plan a vacation to SF which happens to coincide with next years BAF... I'll tell my wife at the last minute what the plans for the weekend are!
Cheers,
Owen
Hi Owen,
You would never regret going to the Burning Amp show. It's well worth while simply due to the members you can actually meet. Seeing all the great equipment build by members is amazing. The concepts alone are amazing!!
By all means, make every attempt to catch the show next year.
-Chris
You would never regret going to the Burning Amp show. It's well worth while simply due to the members you can actually meet. Seeing all the great equipment build by members is amazing. The concepts alone are amazing!!
By all means, make every attempt to catch the show next year.
-Chris
I have tried to refrain from replying but I feel I need to. I mixed feelings about this for sale thread. I want the tweeters so I am willing to pay for them.
I have made an offer to glottis999 for the RAALs. I have plans on using the ribbons and I would greatly appreciate if I may be first in line for them.
I hope it is OK to ask other members to allow me to be first. If a member offers glottis999 more than me, they are all yours. I just ask that I get first dibs.
I have made an offer to glottis999 for the RAALs. I have plans on using the ribbons and I would greatly appreciate if I may be first in line for them.
I hope it is OK to ask other members to allow me to be first. If a member offers glottis999 more than me, they are all yours. I just ask that I get first dibs.
Variac said:
Something got lost in translation if my post was read as criticism of the BAF organizers. It wasn't. Any frustration sensed is directed elsewhere. The advantage of per prize entries is it makes motive explicit. No one wins by accident and spinning prizes immediately for profit does the best job practical exposing intent. You can't know what a winner will do, the only option is to act retroactive.
Fair enough, there are better ways to be found. The 'do it' referred to repercussions after the fact - the only practical option - and not meant as 'structure raffle as I say.'
It will be tough keeping small and unique operations like RAAL engaged in these events if their donations are treated as freebies. Unlike regular contest giveaways RAAL gets no advertising benefit of consequence from it. It seems truly a donation to the 'community'. In the balancing act, honestly, between maintaining a healthy relationship with the manufacturers/designers actively supporting DIY or risking the loss of a single member, for me the choice would be simple.
Also interedted in the ribbons.
Just letting you know I'm interested if the first sale falls through.
I actually priced a set in Oz from Stones Sound studio last week. About $1300 AUD a pair plus shipping with a very weak aussie dollar. That $1200 US from a US seller sound like gouging to me.
Shipping to Australia shouldn't be too much trouble.
I would prefer to go to the local reseller so your price would need to be pretty good by a few hundred bucks.
Go easy on the guy, it was a raffle not a charity giveaway. A deserving recipient doesn't come into it, it's just luck. You should have bought more tickets if you feel bitter about it.
FYI Intended use is with de-whizzered (clumsy wife) enabled Fostex FE207E with Dave's phase plugs in Chang cabinets, A DIYhifi supply PP el24 amp with a Monica USB dac. Very much a DIYAUDIO-centric project.
Just letting you know I'm interested if the first sale falls through.
I actually priced a set in Oz from Stones Sound studio last week. About $1300 AUD a pair plus shipping with a very weak aussie dollar. That $1200 US from a US seller sound like gouging to me.
Shipping to Australia shouldn't be too much trouble.
I would prefer to go to the local reseller so your price would need to be pretty good by a few hundred bucks.
Go easy on the guy, it was a raffle not a charity giveaway. A deserving recipient doesn't come into it, it's just luck. You should have bought more tickets if you feel bitter about it.
FYI Intended use is with de-whizzered (clumsy wife) enabled Fostex FE207E with Dave's phase plugs in Chang cabinets, A DIYhifi supply PP el24 amp with a Monica USB dac. Very much a DIYAUDIO-centric project.
I originally posted this info on the Burning Amp thread, out of frustration that they didn't go to someone who will appreciate them. You know when I've seen this post for sale - I just had a bad feel about it. It is not a question if the lucky winner is allowed to sell it, they belong to him no question about it.
My frustration is a luck of taste. Posting it for sale the very next day here on the DIYAudio left me num. For the wider audience that are not informed - Alex from RAAL made an extra effort and had custom engraving "For Burning Amp" on these ribbons. Not to mention that they were hand carried overseas even though Alex had to carry many other items for the show in Denver. I was hoping they will go to someone who would be proud to own them and that deserves the effort. That is all to it. So hopefully they will find a good home in a second attempt.
Also to answer this for Jan - if he allows me:
Originally posted by opc
The question is:
Would you pass it on for nothing?
He did, he won prize (not ribbons but I believe Nelson's case) and he passed it to someone in the group because he wouldn't be able to carry it on the plane.
My frustration is a luck of taste. Posting it for sale the very next day here on the DIYAudio left me num. For the wider audience that are not informed - Alex from RAAL made an extra effort and had custom engraving "For Burning Amp" on these ribbons. Not to mention that they were hand carried overseas even though Alex had to carry many other items for the show in Denver. I was hoping they will go to someone who would be proud to own them and that deserves the effort. That is all to it. So hopefully they will find a good home in a second attempt.
Also to answer this for Jan - if he allows me:
Originally posted by opc
The question is:
Would you pass it on for nothing?
He did, he won prize (not ribbons but I believe Nelson's case) and he passed it to someone in the group because he wouldn't be able to carry it on the plane.
As we all know anything won in a raflle or drawing is a shot in the dark. Once won it belongs to the owner to do with as he pleases. We may not agree with his intentions however those tweeters may be better off in the hands that will use them to their best. Vote your consience(sp) with your wallets either buy or don't buy. however, it looks like a little repremand may bring the price down. If we all had money we would just buy our stuff
instead of DIY.
My 2c worth
Regards, Elwood
instead of DIY.
My 2c worth
Regards, Elwood
Hi Peter,
You also know that we do not moderate on the basis of what we like or don't. That includes a distasteful post unless it goes against the posted rules of the forum.
That post did not slip through. It passed because it did not contravene any rules.
-Chris
You know better than that. You used to be a moderator.
You also know that we do not moderate on the basis of what we like or don't. That includes a distasteful post unless it goes against the posted rules of the forum.
That post did not slip through. It passed because it did not contravene any rules.
Not really, but he is free to sell them wherever he can. At least selling them here, a DiyAudio member may be able to make use of them. I think the major issue was the price being asked.
-Chris
Sour grapes!
The guy owns the ribbons. Got 'em fair and square. Offers it for sale to DIYers who might otherwise not be able to afford full price. What's wrong with that? It would be poor taste if they had been donated to him... maybe. Fact is still: it is his to flog as he pleases.
I'm sure the person who buys them will be grateful.
The guy owns the ribbons. Got 'em fair and square. Offers it for sale to DIYers who might otherwise not be able to afford full price. What's wrong with that? It would be poor taste if they had been donated to him... maybe. Fact is still: it is his to flog as he pleases.
I'm sure the person who buys them will be grateful.
anatech said:
Yes, I know better, and that's why I expressed my opinion here, which I usually don't do theses days.
You see, there are certain ethical aspects that may be hard to define by set of rules, but in these particular case forum rules define it clearly: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/announcement.php?s=&announcementid=9&forumid=2
Trading Post:
The Trading Post section of the forum is an advertising section set up for the private non-commercial use of our participating members. By "participating", we mean members who contribute the content (even if it's just asking those "dumb questions" that start discussions which end up enlightening everyone else) that makes this forum the best resource for audio construction on the 'Net. We at diyAudio.com intend to interpret this rather liberally, but we reserve the right to delete any advertising that we deem in our sole opinion potentially fraudulent, overtly commercial, infringing on the intellectual property rights of others, or otherwise offensive.
The key word here is "participating" and from what I see, glottis999 joined the forum with a sole intetion to sell and didn't yet actively participate and contribute.
So did he slip through moderation process?
Re: Also interedted in the ribbons.
They are available in Canada for cheaper. $517.65 ea. That's about $430.00 USD per
http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catalogue.php?man=22
OzMikeH said:
They are available in Canada for cheaper. $517.65 ea. That's about $430.00 USD per
http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catalogue.php?man=22
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