That’s funny Greg I just spoke with the guy I bought the RAALs off to get a price on a pair of dipole RAALs, and he said the exact same thing.
He said I should knock up a small - couple of litre sealed box, with heavy fill and listen to them again to see if that changes the way I hear them. Since that is what they are designed for, it’s only fair to hear them in the environment for which they were designed.
Since they are going to be used in rear speakers eventually, it probably isn’t bad to do that and make a comparison anyway. I already have a Dayton Onmi Mic V1 sitting here ready to go, I just need to work out how to make it work with the Ground Sound software.
Figuring out how to configure it has me confused talks about loop backs etc. I don’t know the first thing about measuring. I think I have worked out how to loopback on my laptop, I have a double ended 3.5mm jack which I can plug the mic into the headphones socket.
Curious as to your thinking behind why it would be less coloured in a cabinet… I thought the cabinet is the culprit.
He said I should knock up a small - couple of litre sealed box, with heavy fill and listen to them again to see if that changes the way I hear them. Since that is what they are designed for, it’s only fair to hear them in the environment for which they were designed.
Since they are going to be used in rear speakers eventually, it probably isn’t bad to do that and make a comparison anyway. I already have a Dayton Onmi Mic V1 sitting here ready to go, I just need to work out how to make it work with the Ground Sound software.
Figuring out how to configure it has me confused talks about loop backs etc. I don’t know the first thing about measuring. I think I have worked out how to loopback on my laptop, I have a double ended 3.5mm jack which I can plug the mic into the headphones socket.
Curious as to your thinking behind why it would be less coloured in a cabinet… I thought the cabinet is the culprit.
Studio ,
it seems like a tele-controlled surgery session
It really frightens me
Hey, send me a plane ticket to "down under" and I'll help a fellow DIY'er in person. Cheaper than Raal Dipoles! Wadda ya say Silent, ready to man up?
Just kidding, kinda...
Well, in a GOOD cabinet with proper absorption of the back wave, you will get a nice clean sound for sure. In this situation you will also get a nice freq response. Something that looks close to manufacturers specs. Now play that same driver swinging in the breeze, naked as a baby and you are going to get HORRIBLE sound right off the bat. You need to measure the naked response, correct for the dipole rolloff and only then have a good listen. Yes, they are made to go in a box, but with proper EQ they can play just fine in dipole mode too. Spend a bunch of time reading here:
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
Tech
I think you must have the Dayton EMM mic? The Omnimic uses a USB interface and comes complete with matching software. There's plenty of info on the Omnimic setup and use if you search the P.E. forum or over at the AVSForums in the diy section.
Keep plugging away and you can end up with something world class. So many DIY'ers are all about budget and bang for the buck. Those of us aspiring for the highest possible results gotta try to make a good showing too!
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
Tech
I think you must have the Dayton EMM mic? The Omnimic uses a USB interface and comes complete with matching software. There's plenty of info on the Omnimic setup and use if you search the P.E. forum or over at the AVSForums in the diy section.
Keep plugging away and you can end up with something world class. So many DIY'ers are all about budget and bang for the buck. Those of us aspiring for the highest possible results gotta try to make a good showing too!
Nope we are definitely talking the right mic, it has the mini usb plug. The difference between v1 and v2 is the v1 they give you a code to plug into the software, whereas v2 comes with a calibration file. Only problem is that code only works in the Dayton software…
Dayton have an offer whereby if I send it to them they will calibrate it for free and send me a calibration file. Been thinking I should pull my finger out and do this since the Ground Sound software needs the calibration file to level the mic, which I currently can’t do.
The setup issue I have been having are with the GS software as you measure in it, and it can automatically do all kind of whizz bang auto programming stuff to flatten the response.
Dayton have an offer whereby if I send it to them they will calibrate it for free and send me a calibration file. Been thinking I should pull my finger out and do this since the Ground Sound software needs the calibration file to level the mic, which I currently can’t do.
The setup issue I have been having are with the GS software as you measure in it, and it can automatically do all kind of whizz bang auto programming stuff to flatten the response.
Leave the Ground Sound software for later. Use the Omnimic as intended. Let's just get some initial sweeps and EQing.
Can't you manually adjust the Ground Sound processing? In most cases, except for maybe DEQX, auto settings aren't the best and even then most people mod what the DEQX sets anyway.
Can't you manually adjust the Ground Sound processing? In most cases, except for maybe DEQX, auto settings aren't the best and even then most people mod what the DEQX sets anyway.
Yes it does allow quite a bit of flexibility, I was planning on running the auto setting just to get a base line.
Have been playing with the crossover some more, and clocking a couple more hours up on the green 12MUs. I now have the crossover set at 2900 and 500.
I have to crossover one side or the other of the main vocals to get a clean sound out of both the tweeter and the mids. I am still somewhat amazed by the image that is projected from a single speaker in less than optimal configuration.
Also a couple of hours away from placing an order for a set of the RAAL dipole 140-15D's. I figure if I am going to commit to dipole I have to commit properly.
Figuring I can use one or both of the RAAL 140-15D AM's in a regular BR cabinet centre speaker.
Have been playing with the crossover some more, and clocking a couple more hours up on the green 12MUs. I now have the crossover set at 2900 and 500.
I have to crossover one side or the other of the main vocals to get a clean sound out of both the tweeter and the mids. I am still somewhat amazed by the image that is projected from a single speaker in less than optimal configuration.
Also a couple of hours away from placing an order for a set of the RAAL dipole 140-15D's. I figure if I am going to commit to dipole I have to commit properly.
Figuring I can use one or both of the RAAL 140-15D AM's in a regular BR cabinet centre speaker.
Rushed through your thread.
Just a few comments.
The illuminators should be fine down to 300Hz
Go dual woofers either 15s, 12s, or 10s.
Great plains 416
Beyma 15p80/Nd
Beyma 12mw/Nd
Beyma 12g40
Eminence Delta Pro 15
Eminence Beta
There are also others, but have a look at those. Not sure what your budget is but you don't want to skimp on the area between 30Hz and 500Hz, a large percentage of music falls in that range
If you can't do dual 15s then consider dual 12s or dual 10s
If you do it right you should not need a subwoofer
Just a few comments.
The illuminators should be fine down to 300Hz
Go dual woofers either 15s, 12s, or 10s.
Great plains 416
Beyma 15p80/Nd
Beyma 12mw/Nd
Beyma 12g40
Eminence Delta Pro 15
Eminence Beta
There are also others, but have a look at those. Not sure what your budget is but you don't want to skimp on the area between 30Hz and 500Hz, a large percentage of music falls in that range
If you can't do dual 15s then consider dual 12s or dual 10s
If you do it right you should not need a subwoofer
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Interesting thread. Don't ignore the GR Research OB system. After a lot of thought I've purchased a set. These can stretch up to 300Hz and might simplify your build by allowing a three-way speaker. Given that construction of OB test mules isn't very difficult or time consuming I'd consider building with the monopole RAALs and have a listen to that first. A potentially useful 'half-way house' solution with the mids would be a shallow open-backed stuffed box, which is essentially what Studiotech has done with his B&G Neo 10s, IIRC. I only have RAAL 71-10Ds, but I do have Neo 8s as well as 10s, so I may end up with a four way system myself...
Melon Head nothing stops me going with duel 18" both sides... but the AE 15" look better.
Money is not a huge concern (obviously important, but won't stop me doing this right).
Just paid $1000 deposit on the RAAL dipole 140-15D, so that part is now locked in.
Think I will probably go four way and look at separate subs as required, would be nice not to need them.
Toaster agree think I need something quality to bridge the 12MUs to whatever woofers I decide on.
Money is not a huge concern (obviously important, but won't stop me doing this right).
Just paid $1000 deposit on the RAAL dipole 140-15D, so that part is now locked in.
Think I will probably go four way and look at separate subs as required, would be nice not to need them.
Toaster agree think I need something quality to bridge the 12MUs to whatever woofers I decide on.
Looking purely at specs and the ability to reproduce the low frequencies without massive roll off, the AE15 had a qts of .94 vs the GPA416-8 qts of .21
BUT!!!! I have never owned a woofer this size before, so I really need some sound guidance on buying something that is of the same quality of the other drivers (forgetting price for a moment, so we don't exclude something great).
Looking to run two per side so that may mean running parallel or series...
BUT!!!! I have never owned a woofer this size before, so I really need some sound guidance on buying something that is of the same quality of the other drivers (forgetting price for a moment, so we don't exclude something great).
Looking to run two per side so that may mean running parallel or series...
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honestly forget about high qts.
Also consider efficiency, but most importantly consider the sound.
If you have the ability to EQ the drivers, which it seems you do then consider other options.
I really don't like the sound of high qts drivers in OB.
Everyone is different but I find high qts drivers bloated, unrefined, lacking detail and lacking tight dynamics
Just so you know I am not a fan of anything over qts 0.7
Also consider efficiency, but most importantly consider the sound.
If you have the ability to EQ the drivers, which it seems you do then consider other options.
I really don't like the sound of high qts drivers in OB.
Everyone is different but I find high qts drivers bloated, unrefined, lacking detail and lacking tight dynamics
Just so you know I am not a fan of anything over qts 0.7
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Well, actually I was suggesting that you might not need to, depending on the woofer choice! Since money isn't a stopper though, 4-way will give you more flexibility. I would certainly have considered something very similar to Studiotech's build if I had the space, including the sealed subs. There's no sensible way I can place a big OB and subs though, so the GRs make the most sense in my relatively small room. If you are only going to be using OBs down to 40 or 50Hz, you can consider the OB bass driver on its merits down to those sort of frequencies. Something like the AE 15 isn't as useful if it's never going to see really low bass. I've heard neither, but my speaker-sense is telling me that in the range above 40Hz, Studiotech's proven B&Cs or the GPA 416s are probably going to be tough to beat. Oh, and if you are using sealed subs, no real need for two 15"s, I'd've thought.
What Melon Head said. Both Studiotech and the UK importer of the Bastanis speakers have settled on (different) lowish Q 15s. It's a question of application, 'horses for courses'. If you want OB all he way down, I reckon the GRs are the way to go, obviously, but the AEs are another option, as are the Hawthorne Augies, but if you are only going down to 40Hz OB, that's a different set of compromises.
Ok well I definitely don't want that...
Sorry not familiar with GR who are they? Probably best to explain what I'm chasing then... I wan't fast, tight and clean bass, as low as possible but not willing to sacrifice quality of sound to get it, so perhaps as you say maybe I should be looking at something with a lower qts and maybe running doubles to get the extra volume?
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