danielwritesbac said:
hi danielwritesbac,
I find using headphones really annoying, so I don't feel I'm in a position to recommend any. Mine are a cheap pair of Grado.
More info here:
http://rockgrotto.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=chitchat
regards
Hi Daniel,
Hi keantoken,
There are some new chips out designed for driving headphones, but I think the best single chip solution is still the NJM 4556.
-Chris
That may be, but the device can not sense that it has DC offset. Therefore it will drift to one DC supply rail or the other. What you intend has little to do with what it does in real life. Also, considering a steady state DC level is just easier to think about.
No. But even if you could, the cure would be worse than the symptom.
and ...
So, why are you shooting for perfection in that case? Something good now that you can replace later when you know more would be a better plan. Right now, the kits that Greg pointed out seem to be the best solution for now. These should be better than most kits out there.
Hi keantoken,
True, but the NJM 4556 is designed for about 150 ohms I think. See the datasheet here. With added output transistors, you can easily drive down to 4 or 8 ohms. You need to drive the lower impedance, even if it's low power. Driving a set of 8 ohm headphones from an output intended for 56 ohms minimum will degrade the sound quality.
There are some new chips out designed for driving headphones, but I think the best single chip solution is still the NJM 4556.
-Chris
anatech said:
Hi Chris! Thanks!!
Is it also possible to use a pair of NJM4556L as the first stage(s) of a larger amplifier?
And, what headphones do you recommend?
My full-size headphones are old brown "salad bowl" Radio Shack's Nova 40. They're a bit dull, and I don't know if this is realistic to the audio or not--can't know without a reference. But, I do need something real, not "enhanced" whatsoever but what I need is simply(?) straight on the level, like a monitor headphone.
Hi Daniel,
For what it's worth, that is what I ended up with.
-Chris
Yes, but I wouldn't. A headphone amp built using these is inexpensive enough to just leave as is and build new for a better one. You can use the NJM 4556 to drive a current booster type output stage. You could also use any small audio amplifier IC's to drive them directly. Some built for low power computer speakers (they might already be lying around your place somewhere!).
When I have to use headphones, I have AKG K-240s. The best I had found at the time. Not horribly expensive like electrostatic types, and certainly not cheap either. These replaced my Koss Pro 4AAs. They were heavy and put your head in a vice.
For what it's worth, that is what I ended up with.
-Chris
anatech said:
Thanks Chris!
I just bought an AKG K-240s and a Koss PortaPro. Since these are used by DJ's, its good news. Thanks for the update!!!
On the topic of "what stuff really sounds like" I'm in trouble again.
I've got some good old stuff for Radio and LP, but none of my digital stuff continues to operate properly. That all needs replaced.
What do you think of these?
An M-Audio Audiophile model sound card has the Via sound chip, which have very little harmonic distortion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829121120 But, there's three potential problems: Difference in host computer of power supply and PCI management, and the possibility that the product may be somewhat embellished at the output.
An affordable DAC with a decent reputation: http://www.audio-magus.com/Super_Pro_DAC707SE_USB_p/dac707usb.htm This reportedly, is sensitive to power supply differences by a vast extent. If operated on battery, it sounds much different (more favorable) than one owner's $2k cd player. Ut oh. How to use this device as a reference point when it doesn't have "common ground" with a reference CD player?
Any suggestions? I'm stumped.
anatech said:
Hi Chris!
I do have the Soundblaster X-Fi Music (the spendy retail version). Comparing my MSI Wind laptop's cheap realtek chip (the worst) to the X-Fi--when all software embellishments are shut off, reveals that the X-Fi's muffled treble makes room for Crystalizer effect. This is a nice arrangement and good thinking on the part of Creative Labs. Their effects really make a difference. . . if you don't compare something else first.
So, while the X-Fi Music can sound fantastic. . . unfortunately, mine can't be used as a standards reference point. I'll be selling it on E-bay.
Exceptions: On my previous computer, with Via, and with some Intel chipsets as well, the X-Fi performs much better than on my Nvidia based motherboard. While I suspect Nvidia of a skrewup on pci management, its also quite noticable that there's a multitude of small ecaps doing smoothing on the mainboard. The typical result of either is a very dark voice.
Guesswork: I think that I need a USB hub that's got its own 5v regulated (or switchmode) power supply. Into that, then some sort of USB DAC could enjoy isolation away from computer differences. Maybe? Am I thinking straight on this?
How does one get a reference point?
USB? Is this the more reliable way to get audio out of the computer?
USB2.. at 480mb/s better than regular PCI (SBaudigy - M-audio)
actually slightly faster than firewire 1.
PCI-e.. like the ASUS XonarDX sound cards ,over 800mb/s,
same as firewire2.(they are getting cheaper, only $77 now..
last year 150+)
I would say the only use for this much bandwidth is realtime
VST waveform emulation (I've maxed out my M-audio)
with standard HQ flac or MP3 you would hear no difference.
I stopped using creative long ago, as their software/drivers suck
and they are more concerned with the "bloatware" they push on
you. for ASIO, m-audio and asus rule (if you have a SB live/audigy
go to kxdrivers, way better!!)
http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/
OS
Howabout this?:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829121001
or this?:
http://www.audio-magus.com/Super_Pro_DAC707SE_USB_p/dac707usb.htm
EDIT: Or something cheaper is fine. I just need to be certain that its "real" as in not embellished by audio processing, has no effects and has no frequency response alteration/issues.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829121001
or this?:
http://www.audio-magus.com/Super_Pro_DAC707SE_USB_p/dac707usb.htm
EDIT: Or something cheaper is fine. I just need to be certain that its "real" as in not embellished by audio processing, has no effects and has no frequency response alteration/issues.
Hi Daniel, ostripper,
The latency of the sound card is probably more important for measurements, and serious mixing I'm guessing. This is where the EMU 1212 is strong. The SB X-Fi Music will sample at greater than 48 KHz at 24 bit depth on a PCI buss. This on a nothing fancy computer with less than a Gig memory, running XP Home. The sound quality is better than I expected, and the audio testing is also better than I expected using RMAA. I have to reload everything again after yet another u$oft inspired reloading of my system.
I have never run into buss speed issues using these cards, but a USB card may be attractive only to keep the card out of the computer case. I am currently designing a shield for my SB card. Mostly because I know enough to think there are problems, even though I don't see any noise. I don't hear any either.
The SB X-Fi Music is something I could do decent work with if I had to. I once had the on board sound, and this card working fine, both at the same time. A u$oft update cured that bit of happiness for me.
The EMU 1212 has some features that I specifically wanted. When I saw it on sale through the Creative web site, I snapped one up. Otherwise I was going to wait for a while. "Chance favors the prepared mind", a quote I like from a Steven Segal film.
So now, I have only to complete some testing interface stuff between the cards and the evil world beyond.
Daniel, I really think your computer is to blame for the iffy performance of your X-Fi card. It is better than most people think and does not have the limitations the earlier cards have. You already own one, use it. Besides, you're short of money anyway. Just so you know, I have not needed to use the Crystalizer effect. Just as well, as you can't use it for testing.
I'll bet there is a simple answer. Selling it on Eeekbay is a total waste. You'd be further ahead to give it to a friend or use it on another computer after you get a new card in the future.
I used to work in an instrument calibration lab. That's if you want the gory details. I am reading what you are saying here, but I don't know if you realize how much this will cost you on an ongoing basis.
-Chris
The latency of the sound card is probably more important for measurements, and serious mixing I'm guessing. This is where the EMU 1212 is strong. The SB X-Fi Music will sample at greater than 48 KHz at 24 bit depth on a PCI buss. This on a nothing fancy computer with less than a Gig memory, running XP Home. The sound quality is better than I expected, and the audio testing is also better than I expected using RMAA. I have to reload everything again after yet another u$oft inspired reloading of my system.
I have never run into buss speed issues using these cards, but a USB card may be attractive only to keep the card out of the computer case. I am currently designing a shield for my SB card. Mostly because I know enough to think there are problems, even though I don't see any noise. I don't hear any either.
The SB X-Fi Music is something I could do decent work with if I had to. I once had the on board sound, and this card working fine, both at the same time. A u$oft update cured that bit of happiness for me.
The EMU 1212 has some features that I specifically wanted. When I saw it on sale through the Creative web site, I snapped one up. Otherwise I was going to wait for a while. "Chance favors the prepared mind", a quote I like from a Steven Segal film.
So now, I have only to complete some testing interface stuff between the cards and the evil world beyond.
Daniel, I really think your computer is to blame for the iffy performance of your X-Fi card. It is better than most people think and does not have the limitations the earlier cards have. You already own one, use it. Besides, you're short of money anyway. Just so you know, I have not needed to use the Crystalizer effect. Just as well, as you can't use it for testing.
What do you mean by that?
I'll bet there is a simple answer. Selling it on Eeekbay is a total waste. You'd be further ahead to give it to a friend or use it on another computer after you get a new card in the future.
I have not heard of that term relating to sound cards. If you are looking for a calibrated output, the best thing to do is measure the output with a calibrated meter. No sound card is calibrated unless you purchase one sold as a test instrument. Then you may be disappointed with the distortion performance unless you buy an expensive one. Cheap, calibrated cards are probably $500 +, then there is the software. A Fluke 187 or 189 would allow you to read your output, and they are calibrated. Mind you, that means you send in your "standard" every year or two for a calibration.
I used to work in an instrument calibration lab. That's if you want the gory details. I am reading what you are saying here, but I don't know if you realize how much this will cost you on an ongoing basis.
-Chris
anatech said:
I do have two reasonable sound cards. In an old PC, there's a Via Envoy24 (onboard, its tied to the fate of an old PC--currently inoperable) and I also have the cheaper X-Fi Audio, which isn't as unintelligible as the X-Fi music (depends on PC). The Via's results are much closer to my Technics tuner and LP.
Any objections or concerns to using this?: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829121001 M-Audio USB pro external device.
That appears to be a production device.
Its cheaper than replacing a brand new Athlon X2 computer.
Am I on the right track?
danielwritesbac said:
Gee Dan, you are hard to satisfy!
I have the X-Fi Extreme and I can't say that it sounds muffled on the highs. Turn off and bypass all the junk (crystalizer, etc) that is meant to make krappy speakers playing krappy music less krappy.
I have tested my cards with RMAA and they are sincerely not lacking in frequency response. Low distortion and noise. Much better than you (and others) think.
MJL21193 said:
Not only hard to satisfy, but the new PC has Nvidia controllers aboard. These directly conflict with the X-Fi. So its out.
In getting a replacement, well, I'd just like to be sure its right. Its so much less expensive if I don't play with the wrong thing, in addition to purchasing the right thing. Trying to go for stuff that's good enough for a small studio, and doesn't offer effects.
danielwritesbac said:
My MSI motherboard has an nForce chipset. No conflicts.
It runs an X2-3800, 1.5G of nothing special ram, a GeForce 8500GT graphics card. No problems.
Offering effects and using them are two different things. Do yourself a favour and download RMAA and test your card out.
Hi John,
Completely agree with everything you have said.
Hi Daniel,
There are so many settings in windows that it's easy to have your card mis configured. I hate to say this, but you need to spend some time figuring this out. If your card still isn't working, work harder.
An interesting link for downloads from Rightmark is here.
You can download RMAA
here.
You will notice that these people have all kinds of computer related diagnostic and test software. Now you can explore your difficulties and solve them. Get busy.
Replacing your current sound card is just plain silly, these work very well. They weren't cheap either. I don't think you have a problem that can not be fixed.
-Chris
Completely agree with everything you have said.
Hi Daniel,
There are so many settings in windows that it's easy to have your card mis configured. I hate to say this, but you need to spend some time figuring this out. If your card still isn't working, work harder.
An interesting link for downloads from Rightmark is here.
You can download RMAA
here.
You will notice that these people have all kinds of computer related diagnostic and test software. Now you can explore your difficulties and solve them. Get busy.
Replacing your current sound card is just plain silly, these work very well. They weren't cheap either. I don't think you have a problem that can not be fixed.
-Chris
two possible solutions to this:
1. the obvious, did you turn off the onboard codec/midi port
or any other option for sound in BIOS.
Also, if you dont use your 3/4/7 (legacy printer/com ports)
disable them ,too. X-fi will have many choices for IRQ.
2. Try different slot positions for your PCI devices,
Both VIA and Nvidia are finicky about this and even
without direct hardware conflicts performance will suffer.
Intel's SM BUS doesn't seem to care but with intense
3D gaming with surround even it has a "Favorite" for
the sound card.
OS
Thanks guys!! I've downloaded this and will do it.
The X-Fi Music has a documented conflict with Nvidia Quadro, Nvidia Business Series, and Nforce 4xx series. I have Nforce 430, with 2 gigs dual channel, and the 4600+ Athlon X2.
X-Fi Audio doesn't conflict, so I'll do the tests with it.
Thanks for the test software!!
The X-Fi Music has a documented conflict with Nvidia Quadro, Nvidia Business Series, and Nforce 4xx series. I have Nforce 430, with 2 gigs dual channel, and the 4600+ Athlon X2.
X-Fi Audio doesn't conflict, so I'll do the tests with it.
Thanks for the test software!!
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.