While I am waiting for my box to arrive I am trying to put together a parts list to get it going when I finally do get it. I read through the other thread that has the latest version by Peter. I think I have my list complete but would like to know if I have missed anything.
PS
1 - Hammond 166L24
1 - LM7808
2 - MSR 860 diodes
2 - 1000uf/25v caps
1 - 4.7uf/25v cap
For the Board
1 - 47uf/50v cap for C916
1 - 100R for dout
1 - 300R for dout
1 - RCA jack
If you guys can see anything I missed let me know. Thanks.
PS
1 - Hammond 166L24
1 - LM7808
2 - MSR 860 diodes
2 - 1000uf/25v caps
1 - 4.7uf/25v cap
For the Board
1 - 47uf/50v cap for C916
1 - 100R for dout
1 - 300R for dout
1 - RCA jack
If you guys can see anything I missed let me know. Thanks.
The 4.7uf cap isn't strictly necessary - Peter used a 4.7uf Black Gate N bypass with Black Gate STD 1000/25 only because this particular combination worked well as a substitute for a single Black Gate FK 2200/35.
So unless you are going to use these particular Black Gates, there is no reason to use a 4.7uf cap (and indeed, there are reasons not to).
Voltage rating for the C916 cap needs not be that high - there is only 5V across that cap.
I have still quite many caps left to test in my "big Shigaclone capacitor shootout", but I can already strongly advise against any Panasonic FC in the PSU; Silmic/Cerafine have not impressed me either. Rubycon and Sanyo seem acceptable. None came close to Black Gates though. For C916 my favourite non-BlackGate cap so far is Nichicon FG 47/10 - comparable with BG STD, but still far cry from BG FK, and even further from BG N.
So unless you are going to use these particular Black Gates, there is no reason to use a 4.7uf cap (and indeed, there are reasons not to).
Voltage rating for the C916 cap needs not be that high - there is only 5V across that cap.
I have still quite many caps left to test in my "big Shigaclone capacitor shootout", but I can already strongly advise against any Panasonic FC in the PSU; Silmic/Cerafine have not impressed me either. Rubycon and Sanyo seem acceptable. None came close to Black Gates though. For C916 my favourite non-BlackGate cap so far is Nichicon FG 47/10 - comparable with BG STD, but still far cry from BG FK, and even further from BG N.
Last edited:
what is the best value for the dout and grounding resistors if i only have below choices? im using the newer vision small gigaworks dac.
100 ohm
120 ohm
250 ohm
350 ohm
im going to build an enclosure to house both the ez31 transport and the small gigaworks dac together. is there no better options than having two connectors and a full length 75ohm coax cable in the enclosure? i just think its not a very smart idea to do so and have to cater space in the enclosure for the extra coax cable.
what about changing the resistor values and/or adding an inductor?
100 ohm
120 ohm
250 ohm
350 ohm
im going to build an enclosure to house both the ez31 transport and the small gigaworks dac together. is there no better options than having two connectors and a full length 75ohm coax cable in the enclosure? i just think its not a very smart idea to do so and have to cater space in the enclosure for the extra coax cable.
what about changing the resistor values and/or adding an inductor?
If only the black gates were a little easier to get. Everywhere I look I cannot seem to find those particular sizes. I was going to go with silmic II or cerafine but seem to see conflicting impressions of them. Kind of a love/hate thing. I don't know of anything that comes close to the BG's so I'm at the mercy of what others are saying.
I know this will rise a few brows..but if a cap (eg. other than Blackgates) does sound a bit harsh try to carefully cut the plastic jacket from it......maybe it yields towards the sound you are looking for....who knows.
I stretch you are on your own with this...
Take care with the naked metal avoid touching it with the pins or other metal ofcourse ...
I stretch you are on your own with this...
Take care with the naked metal avoid touching it with the pins or other metal ofcourse ...
Yeah, "skinning" the capacitor may improve the sound, but this will be a very, very subtle difference. Certainly not enough to change a bad capacitor into a good one, or even bad into fair...
C12mech, if you give me a week or so, I will try to finish my listening tests, and type all my notes.
About the Elna caps in Shiga: Silmic II has slight emphasis on bass and a bit over-etched treble, but overall pleasant tonal balance - unfortunately they have lower than average resolution and lack badly in attack and edge definition. Cerafine are better in this respect (attack), but also lack detail, and have unnaturally coloured tonality, so that overall presentation feels artificial.
I couldn't live with either of them in Shiga PSU. They performed underwhelmingly in C916 position too.
C12mech, if you give me a week or so, I will try to finish my listening tests, and type all my notes.
About the Elna caps in Shiga: Silmic II has slight emphasis on bass and a bit over-etched treble, but overall pleasant tonal balance - unfortunately they have lower than average resolution and lack badly in attack and edge definition. Cerafine are better in this respect (attack), but also lack detail, and have unnaturally coloured tonality, so that overall presentation feels artificial.
I couldn't live with either of them in Shiga PSU. They performed underwhelmingly in C916 position too.
One should not use bad caps...
For the record I am talking about "the other" good capacitors besides Blackgates...yes there are more good caps on the market...and "seasoning" them accordingly.....
Just trying to get the perspective right...
BTW. I'll bet if you skin the Silmic you might get rid of some of the over-edged-treble .. :-X
Last edited:
Yes, but that will not solve the problem of Silmic's muddy transient reproduction... That is a fundamental flaw that no amount of tweaking will correct. They may be considered "good", when compared to no-name caps, but they are certainly bad in comparison with Black Gates.
Like I said before, so far in my tests there does not appear to be any "good" capacitors apart from Black Gates - only "bad" or "fair" ones... If you can suggest any "good" caps that can rival BG, I will definitely try them.
There was a whole thread on that subject: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/6031-removing-plastic-covers-capacitors.html
I removed jackets from caps on few occasions, but since the difference was very subtle I don't do it any longer.
I once applied copper foil to a "nude" cap and didn't like the result at all.
I removed jackets from caps on few occasions, but since the difference was very subtle I don't do it any longer.
I once applied copper foil to a "nude" cap and didn't like the result at all.
Since we are talking caps;
I replaced C906 with one of these russian NOS PIOs
and C908 with 3n3 Wima FKP2 .
The result was fantastic !
A real big step forward.
I also tried a 0.1u 63V PETP ( K73-16 ) for C906 but didn't like it, sounded a bit harsh, but since i didn't let it burn-in i guess i might try it again.
...and i havent even replaced the oscilator yet, still waiting for the citizen cristal.
This i suspect will add yet more resolution to the sound.
This is indeed a fun project.
A big thank you Peter.
I replaced C906 with one of these russian NOS PIOs
and C908 with 3n3 Wima FKP2 .
The result was fantastic !
A real big step forward.
I also tried a 0.1u 63V PETP ( K73-16 ) for C906 but didn't like it, sounded a bit harsh, but since i didn't let it burn-in i guess i might try it again.
...and i havent even replaced the oscilator yet, still waiting for the citizen cristal.
This i suspect will add yet more resolution to the sound.
This is indeed a fun project.
A big thank you Peter.
Attachments
Last edited:
After reading some more today I think I may go with the Nichicon FG for C916 to start. I was also considering them for the PS but not sure yet. Are there any boutique electrolitics that are out there that could work? Reading over all the data sheets can just be confusing. I'm thinking of just buying one of each brand and swapping out until I find the combo that I like.
As for the Dout resistors are the Caddock and S102 the best way to go. I was looking at the Vishay naked Z201's and can't help but wonder how they sound. They only cost a couple dollars more and if I'm already paying that price for a resistor what's $2-3.
As for the Dout resistors are the Caddock and S102 the best way to go. I was looking at the Vishay naked Z201's and can't help but wonder how they sound. They only cost a couple dollars more and if I'm already paying that price for a resistor what's $2-3.
Hi CV
Original crystal better than citizen, too soft with it
Some builder reported Trichord No 4 better than original
Rgds
C12mech, I recommended Nichicon FG for C916, but I haven't tested Rubycons or Sanyo in this position yet - so all bets are off at this stage...
If you want to do your own capacitor testing, I can recommend getting a few 3-pin fan connectors - they cost next to nothing, and are invaluable for quick testing.
A word of caution though - while testing C916 is fairly straightforward, auditioning PSU caps is a bit more difficult. Both caps affect exactly the same areas so you have to test them in pairs, and pretty much have to mix'n'match, because if you take two caps of the same kind their individual weaknesses will get too amplified and will inevitably spoil the sound. This is true even for Black Gates.
Thanks for the heads-up
the sound right now is fantastic as is with the PIO for C906.I have some boards for " The Flea " so i'll try that.
I've got an FG ordered to try for C916.
As far as the PS caps. Are you suggesting pairing different caps of the same value in pairs? As an example, 1000uf cerafine and 1000uf silmic II as a pair. Maybe I'm not reading what you are saying correctly.
I have several connectors to use for the cap testing but I do like your fan plug version.
Sorry about being unclear, what I meant was:
The two PSU caps interact with each other and behave like one "compound capacitor". If you use two caps of the same type (for example two Cerafines) their individual flaws will become amplified and exaggerated.
So you got it right, it's about mixing different types - the values seem less important (although I would not recommend going below 1000uF).
Silmic and Cerafine will not be a very good combination. I remember Cerafine + OS-CON was among the pairs I liked so far, but I have quite a few left to test. Testing PSU caps is a really strenous task, because each individual cap's signature is not very obvious and takes absolute 100% focus to perceive it correctly...
The two PSU caps interact with each other and behave like one "compound capacitor". If you use two caps of the same type (for example two Cerafines) their individual flaws will become amplified and exaggerated.
So you got it right, it's about mixing different types - the values seem less important (although I would not recommend going below 1000uF).
Silmic and Cerafine will not be a very good combination. I remember Cerafine + OS-CON was among the pairs I liked so far, but I have quite a few left to test. Testing PSU caps is a really strenous task, because each individual cap's signature is not very obvious and takes absolute 100% focus to perceive it correctly...
While it is all technically correct, I think you might get into more trouble than really needed, and grounding the metal spindle is a little extreme.
This is all low voltages so just ground the PS section and you should be fine.
Riken resistors in digital output
I happen to have some Riken carbon resistors and found various 50 ohm ones. I proceeded to substitute the 300 ohm and 75 ohm resistor network in my Shigaraki transport with 100 ohm and 50 ohm resistors respectively.
I then substituted the 75 ohm resistor in my Shigaraki DAC with a Riken 50 ohm resistor.
It sounds pretty good, super mellow and much more sweeter than with the stock resistors, very musical. Tonight I will listen for more hours. Although the values do not correspond to the original ones I wanted to check if there was a difference, and there is. Does anyone have experience using Riken for these positions? I suggest you try though it can be easily changed back.
I happen to have some Riken carbon resistors and found various 50 ohm ones. I proceeded to substitute the 300 ohm and 75 ohm resistor network in my Shigaraki transport with 100 ohm and 50 ohm resistors respectively.
I then substituted the 75 ohm resistor in my Shigaraki DAC with a Riken 50 ohm resistor.
It sounds pretty good, super mellow and much more sweeter than with the stock resistors, very musical. Tonight I will listen for more hours. Although the values do not correspond to the original ones I wanted to check if there was a difference, and there is. Does anyone have experience using Riken for these positions? I suggest you try though it can be easily changed back.
Rikens have a (well-deserved) reputation of sounding sweet and articulate. Sadly, they are no longer produced, and are becoming increasingly difficult to obtain.
A company called Amtrans bought the Riken factory (or so the rumour goes), and they now make their own carbon film resistors. Amtrans claim their AMRG resistors are actually better than Rikens. Whether this is true, I don't know, but one thing is for sure - they are not cheaper...
I recently ordered one for my digital out, out of curiosity, I'll report back when I get it.
A company called Amtrans bought the Riken factory (or so the rumour goes), and they now make their own carbon film resistors. Amtrans claim their AMRG resistors are actually better than Rikens. Whether this is true, I don't know, but one thing is for sure - they are not cheaper...
I recently ordered one for my digital out, out of curiosity, I'll report back when I get it.
Last edited: