Fake *******ING "MOTOROLA" Transistors

[clem_o]

Do you have any capacitance data you can contribute?
Wiki perhaps?

Got a couple of transistors that arrived straight from OnSemi, will post soon!!

Agree with the wiki - if there are enough contributors!

Cheers!

Clem

 

[-_nando-_]

PS. you cannot conclusively condemn the merchant who has Toshiba 2n3055's, since it's not unusual for semiconductors to float around in the market for 5 years, 10 years, or more.

And what exactly are you trying to accomplish by confronting the merchant with an accusation?
I would think that if you take your cap meter in there and get a bad reading, you'd say " I'm sorry, this part doesn't match my requirements, do you have any other batch?" He might then bring out some good ones. It's probably more useful than banning yourself from that store (and many others) forever.



Andy

I Agree with you, but I bought a lot of parts (fake) from that store, and I tryed to explain to them, very nicely, that those componets were fake, and that they are not trying to trick me, but that they were buying fake components without know.

Almost nobody here have ever heard about fake transistors, including the stores...

I lost lots of money there, and as I said to you, I tryed to explain nicely to them, to change my componets (those that I've not used) for true ones, or substitute to other parts like Capacitors etc. They were inflexible, and very rude.


Now, I'm buying from other store, and had the same problem, but they changed my components, and now they are learning about fakes.


Thanks !

 

[ECS21]

Hello clem_o,

Agree with you 100%!!!
Where abouts in Manila are you from, I'm
originally from paranaque....


Ecs21,

 

[clem_o]

Sorry for the OT post!

Hi ECS21,

Lived all my life in the floodland called Navotas; work at De La Salle U.

Send me an e-mail, its in my profile and we can talk about the state of things here!

Cheers,

Clem

 

[clem_o]

Cbe Readings

Hi All,

Lenten vacation is a good time to get those capacitance readings:

Capacitance, Base to Collector, using a Capacitance meter with 0V bias and test voltage of 150mV; parts straight from OnSemi; values in nF:


MJL3281: 8.92, 8.91, 8.88, 8.89
MJL1302: 11.51, 11.48, 11.44, 11.46
MJ21196G: 5.78, 5.98, 6.15, 6.02
MJ21195G: 7.31, 7.32, 7.35, 7.35


Known FAKE Toshiba trannies:

2SC3281: 2.43nF
2SA1302: 1.11nF



Anyone else willing to contribute? Please post!!

Cheers

Clem

 

[Eva]

Did you mean base to emitter?

 

[clem_o]

oops

Hi Eva,

Good catch! Yes, the readings are Base to Emitter!

Cheers!

 

[rephil]

Hi clem,

I have done some B to E capacitance measure and my readings are the following (0.150mV test voltage, 0V bias, 1kHz) :

The following are all ON Semi transistors :

MJL3281 : 8.8903, 8.7452, 8.7490, 9.0576 nF
MJL1302 : 12.396, 12,342, 12,236, 12.262 nF
MJE15031 : 1.3435, 1.3486, 1.3400, 1.3511 nF
MJE15030 : 1.9194, 1.9084, 1.8905. 1.8423 nF

MJE 4502 : 1.8601, 1.8699, 1.8720, 1.8810 nF TO3

The following are all ST transistors :

BD139-16 : 142.68, 145.82, 146.43, 144.82 pF
BD140-16 : 130.91, 137.14, 134.14, 136.16 pF

MJ802 : 1.3630, 1.4971, 1.3847, 1.3940 nF TO3

Fakes : in the next post.

Regards

rephil

 

[rephil]

Hi clem,

My availables fakes range from 393pF to 3.07nF for the 2SA1302 and from 893pF to 3.47nF for the 2SC3281.

Before someone write it : yes the resolution of the measure is not meaningful. But it is what I read thus it is what I write, 'AS IS'.

There are different classes of fakes. Not only one of my Toshibas is original. All fakes. I am ruined... I must Through them all away ... This is a very bad day for me.

The distribution of values in capacitance for fakes has no meaning. You can get 5 transistors with very close vlues and others form another batch that are very far away.

Dimensions of the dies are 3mmx3mm for 2SA1302 and 4mm x 4mm for 2SC3281.

Could someone help me in getting a better day ? I am trying to buy some PGA2311PA (DIL) here in Europe and I have no access to Franell being a hobbyist. Pleas where do you buy these PGA here in Europe ?

Thank you.

Best regards.

rephil

 

[Eva]

Your Toshiba fakes are very likely to be made with dies from other models of slighly smaller power transistors, so they are not absolutely useless. You can always perform some Hfe measurements and some voltage, current and dissipation tests in order to figure out what else you can build with them.

How much fakes do you have? In that forum we have done our best to make clear that almost 99% of 2SA1302/2SC3281 sold in Europe for at least the past 6 years were plain fakes. I have 6 or 8 fakes of various flavours in a bag somewhere (I don't remember). I bought them for fun.

 

[rephil]

Hi Eva,

Thank you for your help. I feel better now and I shall try to find some use of these fakes.

I have many (some 30) different fakes. I bought these 5-6 years ago. It was a good deal then, not exceptional though. I shall survive.

Do you know the real size of the dies inside of the Toshibas 2SA1302 and 2SC3281 ?

Best regards.

rephil

 

[Eva]

This picture shows my entire collection of A1302/C3281 fakes. I can't find them now, but I remember that I opened some of them and I think that the biggest dies were also 3 by 3mm.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[Elso Kwak]

This picture shows my entire collection of A1302/C3281 fakes. I can't find them now, but I remember that I opened some of them and I think that the biggest dies were also 3 by 3mm.

Nice hand, Eva......

 

[clem_o]

Hi rephil,

Many thanks for the capacitance measurements! I am sure we'll find these useful the next time we are evaluating transistors from a supplier!!!

I don't know if anyone is willing to find out the real size of the 1302/3281 dies though... I guess the important thing is, a Cbe of 1/2 (or less) of a real unit is a pretty good indicator...

Does anyone have the Cbe of the REAL toshiba 1302/3281? I understand the On-Semi equivalents generally have higher values (someone mentioned this; due to upgraded SOA ratings)...


Cheers!

Clem

 

[rephil]

Hello All,

See by yourself what you get inside fakes : in pic1 you get 3 different 2SA1302 and in pic2 you get 3 different 2SC3281.

It is for this that there are classes of fakes.

As you can see, there are also fakes smaller than 3mmx3mm. I have 2mmx2mm too.

4mmx4mm are king sized fakes. I have them ...

Best regards

rephil

 

[rephil]

Hi all,

I could not put two pics in one reply. So here find the 2SC3281.

Best regards.

rephil

 

[clem_o]

Great pictures, rephil!

Does anyone have real (but 'dead') 3281/1302s that they can crack open and take a pic of?

Cheers!

 

[anatech]

Hi Clem,
I aina gonna crack open a real Toshiba!

I did measure mine and found 4 fakes (all 2SC3281A). They are mighty fine fakes at that! There were slight differences in the moulding hole (not flat and clear) and the mounting holes were not cleaned out (over mould).

Measurements were taken with an HP 4263A and 16089B Kelvin lead set. The leads were compensated just prior to the measurements. Settings were 10KHz and 100mV.

2SA1302A averaged 5n7 for the ones removed from a Carver Lightstar PCB, 5n4 for the newer batch I have.

2SC3281A averaged 7n2 for the used lot (5 pcs each) and 7n9 for the new ones. The fake new ones averaged 2n3.

A pic of fakes and good ones.

 

[Eva]

I would feel very sad if I had to crack a genuine non-blown 2SA1302 or 2SC3281. They are extremely hard to find now, like museum pieces. Indeed, I have not been able to find any genuine devices for sale in the past 5 years!!

 

[anatech]

Hi Eva,
The closest would be the On Semi MJL devices. They have some newer types (MJL0302A and MJL0281A).

-Chris