I know, but this is quite a saying! Im happy, I only have the mundorf ZN in my system all way thru, and to know that they are actually better then silver in oil, damn.I think he already has
anyone else can tell their experience between SIO and ZN?
Gents
I stand in amazement when people say there are no major differences in caps. I often wonder what is the audio quality of these so-called experts, hi-fi systems ?
I have some Mundorf Silver in Oil and the Mundorf Goil in Oil. The Gold In Oil is my facourite. And yes I agree the Mundorf SIO can be bright...
BUT,
Somehow the balance was restored in my system when I replaced the PSU caps in one of my amps with Mundorf High Current Electrolytics. Suddenly the Mundorf SIO sounded excellent. Regretably I cannot afford the even more expensive caps!
Incendently I found that a Hovland bypassed with Mundorf GIO can really sound good in my system.
I suspect the skill lies in finding what brand (or cap colourations) works best in your system. Buying very expensive caps provides no certainty if it going to work in your system. Sadly you have to buy then all to find the magical combination in your system.
Regards
Jozua
I stand in amazement when people say there are no major differences in caps. I often wonder what is the audio quality of these so-called experts, hi-fi systems ?
I have some Mundorf Silver in Oil and the Mundorf Goil in Oil. The Gold In Oil is my facourite. And yes I agree the Mundorf SIO can be bright...
BUT,
Somehow the balance was restored in my system when I replaced the PSU caps in one of my amps with Mundorf High Current Electrolytics. Suddenly the Mundorf SIO sounded excellent. Regretably I cannot afford the even more expensive caps!
Incendently I found that a Hovland bypassed with Mundorf GIO can really sound good in my system.
I suspect the skill lies in finding what brand (or cap colourations) works best in your system. Buying very expensive caps provides no certainty if it going to work in your system. Sadly you have to buy then all to find the magical combination in your system.
Regards
Jozua
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It depends. Different capacitors will make far less difference if you use gNFB, since that's one of the advantages of NFB: making the performance less dependent on active and passive devices inside the feedback loop. Outside a feedback loop, it makes quite a difference, as I discovered when exchanging a 1.0uF electrolytic in the signal path for an AuriCap in a SS design I did. That AuriCap was outside the NFB loop.
As far as special capacitors go, AuriCaps are as far as I'll go. Not spending $30+ for small signal capacitors, no way, no how.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That's it!
I couldn't agree more.
It's a synergy thing with parts working together, sound signatures that complement one another.
Sorry, I don't come on here very often !
I would say that overall I preferred previous Audyn KP-SN to Mundorf silver/oil a few years back . It was to some extent give & take as the high treble on the Silver/oil was a bit more refined and resolved - however I could not live with the relative lack of midrange and bass tone in the silver/oils . I only briefly heard the silver/gold/oil at that time, used on some speakers . The guy who had them was an old friend of mine who has similar tastes in terms of realism and tone, and he was bit disappointed that the silver/gold/oils hadn't 'cured' the mid-tone problem of the silver/oils despite a lot of extra cost.
The problem with the old KP-SN was a slight brightness or lack of refinement in the treble. I have a few of the newer Mundorf ZN's now at home - they are supposed to address this problem with removal of the lead ( as in Pb ) from the tin foil . I'm very soon going to try putting a pair of 0.68uF ZN's in my phono amp in place of KP-SN , I will try to report back when I've played them for a couple of weeks .
I do think the KP-SN's and ( hopefully ) the Mundorf ZN's are very under-rated .
I have also recently tried Audyn copper foil/polypropelene ( the blue ones ) and they were very nice, but not overall any better than KP-SN in a phono amp ( output - line-level ) . These are becoming very hard to find and the prices are going up .
It is an established scientific fact that Gold Foil - Snake Oil capacitors reduce noise and distortion to almost immeasurable levels.
Using the multipole expansion, and the addition theorem of spherical harmonics, it can be demonstrated that the noise and distortion remain only on one plate of the capacitor, due to the unique Quantum properties of Gold-Snake Oil combination.
I'm poor, and I must settle for 0.03% of the MKTs, or 0.01% of the MKPs...
Using the multipole expansion, and the addition theorem of spherical harmonics, it can be demonstrated that the noise and distortion remain only on one plate of the capacitor, due to the unique Quantum properties of Gold-Snake Oil combination.
I'm poor, and I must settle for 0.03% of the MKTs, or 0.01% of the MKPs...
Neglecting edge effects, we can obtain a reasonable approximation to the value of capacitance C.
For two parallel plane plates of area A separated by a distance d, filled with a dielectric medium of dielectric constant ε, from Maxwell's equations
∇.D = 4πρ
D = ε E
Integrating in a volume V
∫∇.D dV = ∮D.ds = D A = ε E A = ∫4πρ dV = 4πQ
Then
E = (4πQ) / (ε A)
Also
E = - ∇φ = dφ/dx
Integrating
Δφ = ∫dφ = E ∫dx = E d
By definition
C = Q/Δφ
Then
C = (ε A) / (4πd)
In a real capacitor, influence both, dielectric and geometry.
However, R leakage depends strongly on dielectric, and ESL on geometry.
That is why a vulgar multifoil chip capacitor, MKT or MKP, can minimize ESL and ESR.
Microphony
Valve Amplifiers - Morgan Jones - Google Libros
That is why if you use an easily compressible dielectric as teflon, Russians, cleverly placed one second rigid shield.
THD
The values given were measured in laboratories of elektor magazine in the 80s.
If your ears can differentiate between 0.01% and 0.03%, good for you !
But if you tell me the super duper gold foil snake oil may exceed these levels/sound better, I would say that the amplifier design is sub optimal.
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I think both extremes are bad, following this line of reasoning, we end by proposing an amplifier made from coconuts, as Gilligan's Island.
There is also the risk that someday they offer "Audio Grade HB Graphite Resistors" at astronomical prices.
Can not be denied that the quality of all the components used influences the final result.
If the difference is negligible, and even sometimes subjective, is well, and we can continue to feed the myth that money can buy everything.
If you put a super duper Gold Foil Snake Oil capacitor, and the sound improves to the point of exclaiming "wow ! that good capacitor !" check your design.
There is also the risk that someday they offer "Audio Grade HB Graphite Resistors" at astronomical prices.
Can not be denied that the quality of all the components used influences the final result.
If the difference is negligible, and even sometimes subjective, is well, and we can continue to feed the myth that money can buy everything.
If you put a super duper Gold Foil Snake Oil capacitor, and the sound improves to the point of exclaiming "wow ! that good capacitor !" check your design.
There is also the risk that someday they offer "Audio Grade HB Graphite Resistors" at astronomical prices.
duelund resistor I thinks .....
Not for sissies diy GRAPHITE RESISTORS
Apologies for breaking into the Duelund thread again to report on Mundorfs !
I can report the current Mundorf ZN's ( Tin/polyprop ) are proving to be excellent after about 15 -20 hrs running . This test is on the output of a phono amp at line-level signal.
They are significantly better than the old Audyn KP-SN to my ears . The tonal balance is better , sound a bit warmer than the slightly cold and bright character of the KP-SN. They have useful extra tone in the upper bass without losing anything elsewhere .
The top end is more refined without the slightly edgy character of the KP-SN .
They have excellent realism and 'immediacy' on well-recorded instruments and voices.
They seem to be overall a bit more classy and with more tonal colour in the mids, than the Audyn 'True copper' which I tested recently .
From my memory of the Mundorf silver/oils , I would say the ZN's would 'wipe the floor' with the silver/oils in bass and midrange tone, but the silver/oils might have just have a little more upper treble resolution .
Now someone needs to compare to the Duelunds !
( however whatever the result, the ZN's are an extraordinary bargain )
I can report the current Mundorf ZN's ( Tin/polyprop ) are proving to be excellent after about 15 -20 hrs running . This test is on the output of a phono amp at line-level signal.
They are significantly better than the old Audyn KP-SN to my ears . The tonal balance is better , sound a bit warmer than the slightly cold and bright character of the KP-SN. They have useful extra tone in the upper bass without losing anything elsewhere .
The top end is more refined without the slightly edgy character of the KP-SN .
They have excellent realism and 'immediacy' on well-recorded instruments and voices.
They seem to be overall a bit more classy and with more tonal colour in the mids, than the Audyn 'True copper' which I tested recently .
From my memory of the Mundorf silver/oils , I would say the ZN's would 'wipe the floor' with the silver/oils in bass and midrange tone, but the silver/oils might have just have a little more upper treble resolution .
Now someone needs to compare to the Duelunds !
( however whatever the result, the ZN's are an extraordinary bargain )
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