Hi Jim,
-is this correct?
(..there website is still up, and they have had periods where stock was "nil" and where they didn't respond to email - but still in business.)
-and yeah, probably one of the better domes to be compared to a good ribbon.
Considering that the sore point of most AMT/Planar tweeters is usually non-linear distortion rather than frequency response, I'm not sure that I'd sing praises about one that can maintain a 5dB window - instead consider that the ones that are more ragged than that are simply poor performers. Most of the ones that Zaph tested look reasonably smooth - link: Zaph|Audio
A gentle rising or falling response can be dealt with in the crossover, as can a slight peak on the low end before the roll-off. Some raggedness (say +/- 5dB) above 10kHz may not be too subjectively offensive since humans are less sensitive to sound level variations up that high. Any significant variations (more than +/-2.5dB) between 2 and 10kHz i'd avoid like the plague.
Given that there are dome tweeters that - discounting any overall gentle rising or falling response - maintain close to +/-1dB from 2K to 20K, and have low non-linear distortion, I find it hard to get excited about planars.
A gentle rising or falling response can be dealt with in the crossover, as can a slight peak on the low end before the roll-off. Some raggedness (say +/- 5dB) above 10kHz may not be too subjectively offensive since humans are less sensitive to sound level variations up that high. Any significant variations (more than +/-2.5dB) between 2 and 10kHz i'd avoid like the plague.
Given that there are dome tweeters that - discounting any overall gentle rising or falling response - maintain close to +/-1dB from 2K to 20K, and have low non-linear distortion, I find it hard to get excited about planars.
Hi Jim,
-is this correct?
(..there website is still up, and they have had periods where stock was "nil" and where they didn't respond to email - but still in business.)
-and yeah, probably one of the better domes to be compared to a good ribbon.
That information came up in a driver discussion on the MAC forum by one of the members that's in the industry. I don't know anything beyond what I said previously. I agree, its a very nice dome.
Jim
Ribbons, planars and AMT's are three distinctly different technology's with different sound qualities that the designer selects based on what they want in the final sound quality of the speaker. Any competent crossover designer can easily shape FR that only varies by 5 db. That's not an opinion, that's just fact.
There isn't anything wrong with domes but AMT's and ribbons sound more real to my ears. I'm sorry to hear that TL has ceased production. It was a dome that was a cut above the others.
My opinions, YMMV..... If it does, enjoy your domes.
Jim
I just tested the Peerless DA25BG08-06 and it sounds amazing. Very extended top end well past 20kHz and very flat and smooth response. Low distortion too. 94dB at 2.83v and can handle 100wrms.
Not sure why I have not seen many people use it yet.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedoc...8-06-aluminum-dome-tweeter-specifications.pdf
It has an ultrasonic breakup at about 30k but that does not seem to be bothersome (not surprising as I can't hear it). It is well built and very solid - an amazing value at $27.
The crossover simulations come out nice too as the fs is near 700Hz and response is flat. Measurements prove it to be flat as well and spec sheet response is honest.
Not sure why I have not seen many people use it yet.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedoc...8-06-aluminum-dome-tweeter-specifications.pdf
It has an ultrasonic breakup at about 30k but that does not seem to be bothersome (not surprising as I can't hear it). It is well built and very solid - an amazing value at $27.
The crossover simulations come out nice too as the fs is near 700Hz and response is flat. Measurements prove it to be flat as well and spec sheet response is honest.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have used the ast2560, with much delight. I also attain measurements much flatter than that provided by the manufacturer. As the tweeter is open back, it needs an enclosure. I wonder if they had an odd enclosure or used a dipole graph or something.
In an absolute sense planars, ribbons and AMT's might "sound" better because of their supposed better impulse response a.s.o.
What I am missing in this discussion however is integration of tweeters with midrange or bass/midrange speakers.
Because of their dimensions and form, planars, ribbons and AMT's have radiation patterns which make them more difficult to integrate with the (cone) midrange.
It is easier to get better overall radiation patterns at crossover frequencies with dome tweeters, especially small flange types.
This advantage might overcome their "inferiority" wrt expensive planars, ribbons and AMT's and eventually might make a better speaker overall.
What I am missing in this discussion however is integration of tweeters with midrange or bass/midrange speakers.
Because of their dimensions and form, planars, ribbons and AMT's have radiation patterns which make them more difficult to integrate with the (cone) midrange.
It is easier to get better overall radiation patterns at crossover frequencies with dome tweeters, especially small flange types.
This advantage might overcome their "inferiority" wrt expensive planars, ribbons and AMT's and eventually might make a better speaker overall.
Yes, leave it there. That's a phase shield common to metal domes (e.g. RS28A). IIRC it helps smooth response in the upper octave (10 - 20 KHz).
No, the title is right.
Ribbons in general can hit way higher frequencies than any dome. I'm not using ribbons because they are a good bang for your buck but because they're the best in my opinion but just for comparison: a Fountek NeoX1.0 costing about 80 bucks or pretty much any tweeter Fountek is selling can if you look at the frequency response graphs go to 40 kHz, and with such ease that it looks like they might go even higher. And all that with a response so flat even 500 or 1000 dollar Scan Speak beryllium tweeters don't even come close to compete. And on top of that, it's not just the n'axis response what makes them superior but also the off-axis response is nearly the same as the on-axis, just a bit quieter. This off-axis sound bounces on the walls which then surrounds, which causes ribbons to sound bigger than they are, very, very big in fact.
Ribbons can't be crossed as low as domes but that easily solved with a midrange in between, if it's necessary at al, a decent woofer should be able to go up to the frequency you'll have to cross a ribbon.
The big advantage of a ribbon over a dome is the moving mass. Some of the new ones have successfully addressed the issues of old. Now we can cross pretty low, with more than acceptable THD, plus no narrow sweet spot.
I'm hoping a new ribbon tweet may be out later this year which can cross even lower..
I'm hoping a new ribbon tweet may be out later this year which can cross even lower..
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Yeah, the difference in the required crossover point isn't that big any more, actually Fountek's NeoPro series can be crossed insanely low, the 5i at 1500 Hz and a little while ago a the 10i has come out, which is twice as big and can be crossed at just 1 kHz. That thing is over 13" tall with nearly 4000 sq mm of membrane, has a sensitivity of 102 db @ 2,38 V and handels up to 80 watts RMS, with a slightly less but still butter smooth response. It's insane.
In part, but AMT's and planars can also have very low mass.
IMO it's a combination of very low mass and very little physical damping. Of course this can also be counter-productive at lower freq.s where not enough damping near resonance leads to a poor result.
Structurally some ribbons tweeters use reinforced ribbons (like fountek's "NEO"), or like the viawave - a surround on its sides. It's also very important to consider how the rear-wave is chambered and particularly how much, how its placed relative to the ribbon, and what kind of rear absorption material there is.
your going to see wider bandwidth and lower distortion in ribbons in the future. Their biggest issue ( in smaller ribbons) is overcoming a strongly rising 3rd harmonic below about 1.5khz.
Domes will likely always have the advantage in vertical dispersion but IMO thats a small price to pay for a good tweeter that can be crossed at say 1 khz.
Domes will likely always have the advantage in vertical dispersion but IMO thats a small price to pay for a good tweeter that can be crossed at say 1 khz.
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