x. onasis said:
I'll need to decide between that one and the folded pipe. My quandry with a 32" pipe and a driver at 50% is how to get the soundstage off the floor.
16" is pretty low. Solutions would be to tilt it back or simply raise it with a false stand, and if I'm going to build a stand why not just make a "bookshelf" speaker? I didn't see anything wrong with your last post.And sorry about the tone of my last post.
As do all speakers but the full rangers may be even more sensitive. I appreciate Nelson Pass' analysis of this in his First Watt article. Adding a series resistor can help a lot in certain cases.
Getting started
Hello guys:
I too have decided to get started on something but first a little ranting:
I appreciate that someone was willing to make some measurements on the selected driver and present the information. I have reservations about how well these curves will represent a broken in driver. It is well known by people that have built projects with Fostex drivers that the take many hours to break in and settle down. My fe167 took more than 200hrs. Basing any decisions on a fresh out of the box driver is going to be a little sketchy for me. I am not suggesting that the drivers are not without problems, I just think they have more potential than described in those curves.
I just completed a 40-1197 tapered quarter wave bi-pole project. I put the driver on the slant face. I am so impressed with this presentation that I am going to make a similar one with the fe127.
Attached is a picture of my 40-1197 bi-pole, I must thank Tim for his help and design. I love them and they are getting better as they break in.
Hello guys:
I too have decided to get started on something but first a little ranting:
I appreciate that someone was willing to make some measurements on the selected driver and present the information. I have reservations about how well these curves will represent a broken in driver. It is well known by people that have built projects with Fostex drivers that the take many hours to break in and settle down. My fe167 took more than 200hrs. Basing any decisions on a fresh out of the box driver is going to be a little sketchy for me. I am not suggesting that the drivers are not without problems, I just think they have more potential than described in those curves.
I just completed a 40-1197 tapered quarter wave bi-pole project. I put the driver on the slant face. I am so impressed with this presentation that I am going to make a similar one with the fe127.
Attached is a picture of my 40-1197 bi-pole, I must thank Tim for his help and design. I love them and they are getting better as they break in.
Attachments
planet10 said:Thanx Tim... Scott showed up at my place a couple hrs after i picked them up from the post. Amazingly they came thru without the usual stop at customs & the resultant fee + GST
My drivers arrived today! I got 4 and plan to build the bi-pole. I was not so lucky and had to pay the handeling fee, customs and GST.
The cone is paper, made of banana plant fibre.
The frame is low profile, so flush mounting is likely not required.
4 screws and washers are provided for mounting.
A foam gasket is also provided for mounting.
The specifications and recommended enclsoure sheets available on the website are also included.
Gio.
FE127E Bi-pole ML-TL
Indeed, it is good to see you back.
I plan to build the bi-pole with ports at the bottom. I want the driver about 36" from the floor. To do this, I was thinking of doing something similar to what Dave had envisioned in his proto L-R ML-TL with 40-1197
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=390693&stamp=1084163773
I am very busy, but hope to get building in the next few weeks.
Cheers,
Gio.
Indeed, it is good to see you back.
Timn8ter said:I'll need to decide between that one and the folded pipe. My quandry with a 32" pipe and a driver at 50% is how to get the soundstage off the floor.
I plan to build the bi-pole with ports at the bottom. I want the driver about 36" from the floor. To do this, I was thinking of doing something similar to what Dave had envisioned in his proto L-R ML-TL with 40-1197
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=390693&stamp=1084163773
I am very busy, but hope to get building in the next few weeks.
Cheers,
Gio.
Guys,
Just surfacing after being snowed under.... literally (attached picture is looking up my driveway last Saturday)... also no power for 4 days.
As any of you who have lived with a fresh set of Fostex drivers might imagine, Mark's measures of 3 Fostex drivers look very much like you would expect based on what they sound like out of a box (i usually don't even bother listening to them for the 1st 100 hrs).... weak bass, and some pronounced emphasis of upper midrange (i find most noticable on spoken male voice).
i have some worries about how mark's mod is going to hold up after a decent breakin... since, at least sonically, breakin accomplishes much of the flattening of the ringing on the top and the filling out of the bass on the bottom with no other intervention then feeding it wth 100s of hrs of tunes..
We know that there are some pretty decent sounding speakers with 127s (& 126s & 103s) in them, so lets not let measures of a young driver discourage us.
I've never expressed it, but as to the chosen driver & the choosen cabinet, i was always of the mind that we would never actually end up with one (you can see i've had no trepidation with doing drawings of the many designs discussed)
We are now at the build some proto-type stage and see how the existing beta designs can be improved.
dave
Just surfacing after being snowed under.... literally (attached picture is looking up my driveway last Saturday)... also no power for 4 days.
As any of you who have lived with a fresh set of Fostex drivers might imagine, Mark's measures of 3 Fostex drivers look very much like you would expect based on what they sound like out of a box (i usually don't even bother listening to them for the 1st 100 hrs).... weak bass, and some pronounced emphasis of upper midrange (i find most noticable on spoken male voice).
i have some worries about how mark's mod is going to hold up after a decent breakin... since, at least sonically, breakin accomplishes much of the flattening of the ringing on the top and the filling out of the bass on the bottom with no other intervention then feeding it wth 100s of hrs of tunes..
We know that there are some pretty decent sounding speakers with 127s (& 126s & 103s) in them, so lets not let measures of a young driver discourage us.
I've never expressed it, but as to the chosen driver & the choosen cabinet, i was always of the mind that we would never actually end up with one (you can see i've had no trepidation with doing drawings of the many designs discussed)
We are now at the build some proto-type stage and see how the existing beta designs can be improved.
dave
Attachments
Fostex Driver Break In
It would be very interesting to see new measurements once the drivers have some 200 hours on them. Everyone talks about Fostex driver break in, but I have never seen a comparison of measurements between a new driver and a broken in driver.
I still find it strange that the FE127E measurements by Mark show rising response with increasing frequency, while the Fostex measurements do not.
Gio.
SCD said:
planet10 said:
It would be very interesting to see new measurements once the drivers have some 200 hours on them. Everyone talks about Fostex driver break in, but I have never seen a comparison of measurements between a new driver and a broken in driver.
I still find it strange that the FE127E measurements by Mark show rising response with increasing frequency, while the Fostex measurements do not.
Gio.
$1499US
So what can $1499US buy you these days? That's right, a FE127E bi-pole!
http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/super 3 bpc.htm
I stumbled across that site as I was doing more research on the FE127E.
There are a copule things to note. They claim to modify the driver in some way, however, no details are given. I like the idea of being able to switch between 4 or 16 ohm impedance. The enclosure is supposedly a BR.
This finish on their products is very nice.
Check it out,
Gio.
So what can $1499US buy you these days? That's right, a FE127E bi-pole!
http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/super 3 bpc.htm
I stumbled across that site as I was doing more research on the FE127E.
There are a copule things to note. They claim to modify the driver in some way, however, no details are given. I like the idea of being able to switch between 4 or 16 ohm impedance. The enclosure is supposedly a BR.
This finish on their products is very nice.
Check it out,
Gio.
Hey folks, I'm new over here, but often can be found lurking over at the fullrangedriverforum. I'm happy to have found this and intrigued with this project. One hell of a long thread! Lots of interesting thoughts.
I see the driver chosen is the FE127E, which is fine. Is there a final on the design? Dave has thrown out some real interesting stuff, just wondering if there is yet an actual "reference" box, as a couple of them seem to be being built. I really liked the folded pipe with the down-firing port and lowered base from a while back. Just wondering if you actualy landed anywhere.
I'll have to get some of these drivers ordered next week.
Cheers!
I see the driver chosen is the FE127E, which is fine. Is there a final on the design? Dave has thrown out some real interesting stuff, just wondering if there is yet an actual "reference" box, as a couple of them seem to be being built. I really liked the folded pipe with the down-firing port and lowered base from a while back. Just wondering if you actualy landed anywhere.
I'll have to get some of these drivers ordered next week.
Cheers!
Thanks for the welcome. I'll keep my eyes open to see what you guys come up with. Most of my experience in this arena stems from reading more than building or the science side of things.
I look forward to this, as I'm onto another speaker project right now. It'll be good to hear impressions and compare them to what I intend to build in the very near future.
I look forward to this, as I'm onto another speaker project right now. It'll be good to hear impressions and compare them to what I intend to build in the very near future.
sorry about that...changed email:-(
sorry about that dave,
I'll try a different email account.
Basically I had drawn a folded Voight pipe for the FE127 based on your previously rectangular sectioned pipe. Did a little math and the path seems to be 31.55 inches or there abouts. The file is autocad. letme know or if you prefer email me directly at nellsk@hotmail.com
stew
sorry about that dave,
I'll try a different email account.
Basically I had drawn a folded Voight pipe for the FE127 based on your previously rectangular sectioned pipe. Did a little math and the path seems to be 31.55 inches or there abouts. The file is autocad. letme know or if you prefer email me directly at nellsk@hotmail.com
stew
My experence with a Fostex was that they do change response after breaking in. IT would be great to do the same driver tests after break-in. It makes even more sense having done the new driver testing already. What if the response doesn't measure differently??
That would certainly be useful information to me!
MAybe you could send the drivers back to Mark after awhile for him to test again? (if he's interested-Mark that WOULD be interesting -no?)
Another point is made by the Omega speakers. He sells conventional and bi-pole models. I still think our early idea of having a module that can be used back to back to create a bi-pole, or placed against a wall, or wired different ways is a great idea. I guess it would need to be reasonably shallow, so I withdraw my demands that it be a narrow tower.
With the documention of the driver response and some possible mods, and the ability to experiment with configuration, this would indeed be a reference speaker, in that results people get can be used as a reference for cabinet types and variations on that driver.
That would certainly be useful information to me!
MAybe you could send the drivers back to Mark after awhile for him to test again? (if he's interested-Mark that WOULD be interesting -no?)
Another point is made by the Omega speakers. He sells conventional and bi-pole models. I still think our early idea of having a module that can be used back to back to create a bi-pole, or placed against a wall, or wired different ways is a great idea. I guess it would need to be reasonably shallow, so I withdraw my demands that it be a narrow tower.
With the documention of the driver response and some possible mods, and the ability to experiment with configuration, this would indeed be a reference speaker, in that results people get can be used as a reference for cabinet types and variations on that driver.
Interesting project guys. I bought 3 FE127's from Madisound and have been messing with them for a couple of days. Current speakers are BD TQWP's with Rat Shack 1197's. I've lived with these for a couple of years. Just for fun I replaced the front one's with the 127's, had to make the hole bigger of course. Wired up in series. The third one is going into a new center channel I'm building right now. Not too much left to do on that, just watching the glue dry. I mainly listen to 2 ch only, but the family likes movies so I figured this would be a good compromise.
Still breaking in, but I REALLY like these 127's. My first Fostex, but these are a definite step up over the 1197's. I can tell these are going to be more open and detailed than what I had. Rather than sounding harsh, out of the box I really thought they sounded more like they had a blanket over them. Kind of muffled and constricted, and not much bass. Improving rapidly.
I hope someone here is able to build the project as discussed, and share their thoughts. My feeling is this could be a very nice set of speakers. I see that Dave and Tim have already built similar successful designs, this one should work great too.
Once I'm able to afford the other two 127's and acquire more ply (and time), I plan to build Dave's version 0.2. But, they aren't sounding too bad in these pipes...
William
Still breaking in, but I REALLY like these 127's. My first Fostex, but these are a definite step up over the 1197's. I can tell these are going to be more open and detailed than what I had. Rather than sounding harsh, out of the box I really thought they sounded more like they had a blanket over them. Kind of muffled and constricted, and not much bass. Improving rapidly.
I hope someone here is able to build the project as discussed, and share their thoughts. My feeling is this could be a very nice set of speakers. I see that Dave and Tim have already built similar successful designs, this one should work great too.
Once I'm able to afford the other two 127's and acquire more ply (and time), I plan to build Dave's version 0.2. But, they aren't sounding too bad in these pipes...
William