Yes, I suppose that I took that for granted in composing my response. The pitch won't change. Just thinking about harmonic structure of the signal, I.E. the amplitude of certain harmonics. Not that they would change pitch.
All you would need is some time variant wire, e.g. changing it's RLC in time, quick enough so it can't be considered a stationary process by the Fourier transform.
Not that you can buy such a piece of wire at your next hardware store, of course.
Ok, i honestly don't have any idea why sound would change but today i finished my solid silver wire 0.5mm OD / AWG24/ interconnect which connects my DAC to my amp.
It changed the sound slightly. Tighter bass and more detail in highest frequencies.
This is me using for first time silver cable and i did it more for fun and to check if what they say is real.
In my honest opinion the change was very slight, i may have not heard it at first, if i did not listen at well known tracks that i have refreshed my memory with, the last couple of days .
So i said to myself, may be the guys from the forum are right and i am just imagining, so i put back the old interconnect. Hmmmm, now that sounded worse than i would have thought.
So it seems going up in quality for me is not very noticeable, but going down definitely hurts my ears.
Would i pay a 100-300$ for that cable? probably not. 20$-40$ for materials/ silver and cheap Rcas and DIY/ , definitely yes.
I recently have upgraded and totally recapped my amp, changed my loudspeaker cables with proper size/ they were thicker before/, new DAC instead onboard audio, new interconnect and now even newer.
here is in % how i feel every one piece changed sound for the better. meaning % from what was at that moment and how it bettered:
-totally recapping the amp/ hybrid tube-mosfet/ using premium capacitors/ Audyne Plus/ chosen after reading a lot of opinions / true or false/ for specific qualities and having in mind not to go crazy spending
I would say sound bettered ~5%. A little more punch and some more clarity in the highs, plus overall resolution. But that could be as old capacitors were 30 years old
-changing loudspeaker cables to 16AWG from ??? but they were much thicker
To me change in sound was ~1-2%. Just some rolling boominess disappeared.
-obtaining DAC / the cheap ODAC/
Hmm, that changed a lot things. I would say 20%. Detail appeared that i did not know was there. I was shocked at first. especially with some bad recording that i thought were good. I start to get addicted to the analytical sound, the recordings that are done right sound warm, no problem with that
-cable from DAC to Amp.
When i received the DAC i did not have cable at hand save some nice looking cheap ebay cable from i don't know when ago. Cause all latest years i have been using optical cable from pc to my previous amp. So i knew this is a 5$ nice looking crap cable.
So i went to local shop and bought a cheap Cordial, made in Europe cable for 13euro or sth. ~10% change for the better, additional boominess tightened and things cleared quite much.
Today changed to pure silver single wire, hmm, 3% change for the better.
-spikes
lifting the speakers on spikes -25% change, i would say tremendous. And that combined with changing to 5% lifted front side, i would say around 30% changed sound experience
-positioning speaker at exact distance and angle from wall , again 30%, this corrected the bass, removed rolling bass / in my words rolling bass is a bass without any need being there, not tight, flimsy, artificial,/. This step also changed the presentation and imaging, made speakers disappear when listening to music and watching movies.
So even if i joke sometimes about cables, all that clearly shows that the speakers themselves, how they are positioned, is the most important change. then source/DAC/. if the amp is decent on first place, it would not be a super big change if upgraded and hundreds of $$ spend on it for premium capacitors. It seems the cables if decent normal cable, there is no need to go crazy and go silver or whatever.
The only thing i have not checked till now is buy a calibrated microphone and try the Room Eq Wizard.
It changed the sound slightly. Tighter bass and more detail in highest frequencies.
This is me using for first time silver cable and i did it more for fun and to check if what they say is real.
In my honest opinion the change was very slight, i may have not heard it at first, if i did not listen at well known tracks that i have refreshed my memory with, the last couple of days .
So i said to myself, may be the guys from the forum are right and i am just imagining, so i put back the old interconnect. Hmmmm, now that sounded worse than i would have thought.
So it seems going up in quality for me is not very noticeable, but going down definitely hurts my ears.
Would i pay a 100-300$ for that cable? probably not. 20$-40$ for materials/ silver and cheap Rcas and DIY/ , definitely yes.
I recently have upgraded and totally recapped my amp, changed my loudspeaker cables with proper size/ they were thicker before/, new DAC instead onboard audio, new interconnect and now even newer.
here is in % how i feel every one piece changed sound for the better. meaning % from what was at that moment and how it bettered:
-totally recapping the amp/ hybrid tube-mosfet/ using premium capacitors/ Audyne Plus/ chosen after reading a lot of opinions / true or false/ for specific qualities and having in mind not to go crazy spending
I would say sound bettered ~5%. A little more punch and some more clarity in the highs, plus overall resolution. But that could be as old capacitors were 30 years old
-changing loudspeaker cables to 16AWG from ??? but they were much thicker
To me change in sound was ~1-2%. Just some rolling boominess disappeared.
-obtaining DAC / the cheap ODAC/
Hmm, that changed a lot things. I would say 20%. Detail appeared that i did not know was there. I was shocked at first. especially with some bad recording that i thought were good. I start to get addicted to the analytical sound, the recordings that are done right sound warm, no problem with that
-cable from DAC to Amp.
When i received the DAC i did not have cable at hand save some nice looking cheap ebay cable from i don't know when ago. Cause all latest years i have been using optical cable from pc to my previous amp. So i knew this is a 5$ nice looking crap cable.
So i went to local shop and bought a cheap Cordial, made in Europe cable for 13euro or sth. ~10% change for the better, additional boominess tightened and things cleared quite much.
Today changed to pure silver single wire, hmm, 3% change for the better.
-spikes
lifting the speakers on spikes -25% change, i would say tremendous. And that combined with changing to 5% lifted front side, i would say around 30% changed sound experience
-positioning speaker at exact distance and angle from wall , again 30%, this corrected the bass, removed rolling bass / in my words rolling bass is a bass without any need being there, not tight, flimsy, artificial,/. This step also changed the presentation and imaging, made speakers disappear when listening to music and watching movies.
So even if i joke sometimes about cables, all that clearly shows that the speakers themselves, how they are positioned, is the most important change. then source/DAC/. if the amp is decent on first place, it would not be a super big change if upgraded and hundreds of $$ spend on it for premium capacitors. It seems the cables if decent normal cable, there is no need to go crazy and go silver or whatever.
The only thing i have not checked till now is buy a calibrated microphone and try the Room Eq Wizard.
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Its too tempting. My theory is that the subject is so deeply ingrained due to the years of relentless beatings on. I have also tried a disclaimer. Its kinda like trying to keep ants away from honey not very effective as your also finding out now
You must have come across a lot of bad homebrew cables in your time. I'm wondering how you got your hands on enough to make a statistically significant sample. No one has ever asked to check any of mine.
Or are you saying that you just stink at making your own?
Age seems to have an effect too, i am now much less able to tell one cable thread from the other...
Seriously though i can and do sometimes hear very small differences between cables of a reasonable length. Very short cables all sound the same to me and i cant seem to hear any difference between a screw terminal block or an RCA plug. I made up 2 sets of 5m interconnects last year using Van Damme cables. One from 'Shotgun' style coax aimed at the hifi market, the other from dirt cheap shielded mic cable. I can hear a difference between them but they are totally different cable types. I prefer the mic cable which is nice cos it's just over £1 per meter.
Cables can be VERY cheap and still sound the dog's nads
Seriously though i can and do sometimes hear very small differences between cables of a reasonable length. Very short cables all sound the same to me and i cant seem to hear any difference between a screw terminal block or an RCA plug. I made up 2 sets of 5m interconnects last year using Van Damme cables. One from 'Shotgun' style coax aimed at the hifi market, the other from dirt cheap shielded mic cable. I can hear a difference between them but they are totally different cable types. I prefer the mic cable which is nice cos it's just over £1 per meter.
Cables can be VERY cheap and still sound the dog's nads
I wonder what the capacitance is. I bet if you add the difference in capacitances to the lower one, you'd have a hard time telling the difference.
In an ABX/DBT, of course.
I haven't got my hands on any of them. Merely reading the description is sufficient to know that they will be bad e.g. no screening/shielding on an unbalanced cable, twisted pair used when coax should be used, loose widely spaced twisting, braiding, mechanically soft insulation.ccoyle said:
I never make my own, apart from merely soldering a bought connector onto the end of a bought piece of appropriate wire. If I wanted to make my own wires I would need to buy a wire factory. Factories make better wires than DIYers.
Now antennas: I do sometimes make my own antennas. Partly because I appear to understand antennas as good as (or better than, in some cases) the antenna manufacturers.
Or maybe (some) factories make CHEAPER wires than DIYers, if this guy is to be believed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaUOaaOyhHE&t=5m37s
Not convinced, pink copper wire is used in making cheap jewelry the color is still in the enamel overcoat. Not sure a truly pink metal is possible. I figure the cheapness of the motor assemblies accounts for the difference in sound.
Guitar people are funny, all the fussing and then they get back to back 1N34 diodes in the signal path as soon as possible.
And I don't know why the copper purity of wire would really matter anyway. At least not in a line level interconnect. For low impedance circuits, maybe. I've never been able to find a difference between copper, brass, iron, steel or stainless steel in interconnect wires. Maybe over 100s of meters, but not at 2 or 3 meters.
In fact the only difference I could find between conductors made of metal and those made of fruits, veggies, wine, beer, dirt, salt of fresh water was DCR. Much to my disappointment, I must say.
In fact the only difference I could find between conductors made of metal and those made of fruits, veggies, wine, beer, dirt, salt of fresh water was DCR. Much to my disappointment, I must say.
It's not just DIY cables, lots of boutique cables are accidents looking for a place to happen. And many of the major audiophile cable manufactures depend on alternate reality engineering to function the way the brochure claims.
I don't doubt that for a minute. I was just reacting to the sweeping and unsupported statement that most homebrew cables are bad quality.
And you are making a point that I have always made: you have no idea who is actually making the component parts of a pricey boutique interconnect, who is assembling them and where, and how they are being assembled.
On the other hand, I have a pretty good idea of where the Belden 1505F coax, the Switchcraft 3502A RCA plug, and the Kester 63/37 solder that go into my $6.00, 1 meter interconnect come from. And I can control the construction quality.
Be homebrew cables, some DIY'ers are using major manufacturer's bulk cables and adding connectors of their choice, these cables can easily equal manufactured cables. But it's the homebrew bulk cable ones that are questionable. It's takes big expensive machines to make good bulk cable.
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However a lot of DIY'ers chose the wrong bulk coax when making RCA interconnects.
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So what can they not see? If you take the effort to be disparaging the least you can do is give some examples to make your point.
Wow, an ad hominem , didn't see that one coming did they
There are objectivists, subjectivists and everything inbetween-ists on here, most are decent people and will give their honest opinion. I say thanks for the advice and compare it to that gained from other sources and my own experience.
It's all good, enjoy the differences in opinion and the arguments it causes, that's how progress is made after all.
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