This is the night for trying something wild... (and no - I have NOT been drinking)
I was trying different XO's between the RD-75 ribbon and 10" woofers, and suddenly ended up at 200 Hz. And the XO to my H-baffle subwoofers is 120 Hz.... Not much work to do for the 10" woofers then, so I thought - what the heck, lets skip the 10" woofers and XO around 180 Hz. Just the ribbons and H-baffles as a 2-way. It works, and its even better without the 10" woofers. My H-baffles with eight 21" Beyma woofers are actually better in the midbass than Seas L26 woofers....
I was trying different XO's between the RD-75 ribbon and 10" woofers, and suddenly ended up at 200 Hz. And the XO to my H-baffle subwoofers is 120 Hz.... Not much work to do for the 10" woofers then, so I thought - what the heck, lets skip the 10" woofers and XO around 180 Hz. Just the ribbons and H-baffles as a 2-way. It works, and its even better without the 10" woofers. My H-baffles with eight 21" Beyma woofers are actually better in the midbass than Seas L26 woofers....
Yeah, I did run the 21" Beyma as far up as 350 Hz, in this speaker:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
What has happened here now is that the 10" woofers are gone (sold...), and what remains are the RD-75 ribbons and my four big H-frames, each with two 21" Beyma's. It's a two way! XO @ 180 Hz, 48 dB/oct. It works like a dream! This is the best speaker I've ever had in my room for sure.... strengts are: clarity, resolution, lack of coloration, stereo image size AND precision, dynamics... and it sounds very much like "nothing".
I just have to laugh... its a two-way with four 21" woofers and one ribbon.... quite unusual!
Earlier in this thread I had concerns regarding stereo image an dynamics, but this is all gone now... mostly because I have improve the acoustics of my room.
Some have said that crossing over below 250 Hz will cause distortion and large movements of the ribbon. Well, I can play very loud with these speakers, and the ribbon is NOT moving enough the see any movement.
I just have to laugh... its a two-way with four 21" woofers and one ribbon.... quite unusual!
Earlier in this thread I had concerns regarding stereo image an dynamics, but this is all gone now... mostly because I have improve the acoustics of my room.
Some have said that crossing over below 250 Hz will cause distortion and large movements of the ribbon. Well, I can play very loud with these speakers, and the ribbon is NOT moving enough the see any movement.
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Yes its very easy! Why on earth didn't I think of this before....??
The RD-75's are still hanging in the same frames as I used when the 10" woofers were there. New frames will be made next week!
Currently it looks like this. For your viewing pleasure, I've removed the front grilles from two of the H-frame subwoofers........
The RD-75's are still hanging in the same frames as I used when the 10" woofers were there. New frames will be made next week!
Currently it looks like this. For your viewing pleasure, I've removed the front grilles from two of the H-frame subwoofers........
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
How loud??
How loud is "very loud" ?? I've run mine loud enough to see the membranes moving, they're crossed at 600 Hz but I run them 1st order... spl measured 108dB in room (pretty loud) and with the 4 12" sonotubes scattered about, the entire house vibrated. Of course, mine aren't no-baffle design, I've got swept wings and ~ 13" width (7" flat and 3" wings swept at 30 degrees)
The 6 1/2" peerless mid-woofers are rated 150w rms, and they're reaching their excursion limits at this level. Since 107dB would be ~ 64 watts into the planars, not much left at these levels (plus everyone else leaves the house, including the cat!)
This is 108 dB at 12' from the speakers, in a 15,000 ft^3 living space; they fill the room like no point source speakers can.
in room setup 3 yrs ago
It's plenty loud for me, and I agree, the sound from RD75's is like ... nothing!!
I like the open look though, great job...
l8tr
John L.
How loud is "very loud" ?? I've run mine loud enough to see the membranes moving, they're crossed at 600 Hz but I run them 1st order... spl measured 108dB in room (pretty loud) and with the 4 12" sonotubes scattered about, the entire house vibrated. Of course, mine aren't no-baffle design, I've got swept wings and ~ 13" width (7" flat and 3" wings swept at 30 degrees)
The 6 1/2" peerless mid-woofers are rated 150w rms, and they're reaching their excursion limits at this level. Since 107dB would be ~ 64 watts into the planars, not much left at these levels (plus everyone else leaves the house, including the cat!)
This is 108 dB at 12' from the speakers, in a 15,000 ft^3 living space; they fill the room like no point source speakers can.
in room setup 3 yrs ago
It's plenty loud for me, and I agree, the sound from RD75's is like ... nothing!!
I like the open look though, great job...
l8tr
John L.
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I'm not anywhere near your levels for sure.... I guess the loudest I play is about 100 dB (average) in listening position, which is just 1.6 meters from the speakers.
If you XO 6 dB/oct at 600 you're just 18 dB down at 150 Hz.. that's not much. I'm almost that much down at 150 Hz even when crossing at 180 Hz since I'm using very steep filter slopes.
If you XO 6 dB/oct at 600 you're just 18 dB down at 150 Hz.. that's not much. I'm almost that much down at 150 Hz even when crossing at 180 Hz since I'm using very steep filter slopes.
not my normal either
Don't get me wrong... I normally listen no louder than maybe 95dB to 100dB, except on action movies where the peaks sometimes are higher. The loud listening was more of a test than anything else...
The sound stays remarkably coherent up to maybe 105dB, after which I can't tell if it's my ears distorting, the amp, the speakers, the cat, or my wife...
l8tr
John L.
Don't get me wrong... I normally listen no louder than maybe 95dB to 100dB, except on action movies where the peaks sometimes are higher. The loud listening was more of a test than anything else...
The sound stays remarkably coherent up to maybe 105dB, after which I can't tell if it's my ears distorting, the amp, the speakers, the cat, or my wife...
l8tr
John L.
Oh yeah, its fun to crank it up from time to time..... but not all the time....
I had a long listening session yesterday. Wife was out, cats (we have three..) were out, lights were out... totally quiet in the house and almost total darkness, that's how I like it.
These speakers can do something that no other speakers I've heard can do, simple as that!
I had a long listening session yesterday. Wife was out, cats (we have three..) were out, lights were out... totally quiet in the house and almost total darkness, that's how I like it.
These speakers can do something that no other speakers I've heard can do, simple as that!
The two sub's in the center are Left and Right channels respectively, and so are the subs placed on the sides.
The idea is that the two subs on each channel form a phantom image right in the middle between the two, and that's where the main dipole is located. This actually works, and it results in a very solid stereo image.
With XO as high as 180 Hz the sub's locations become critical, as its easy to hear where they are.
The idea is that the two subs on each channel form a phantom image right in the middle between the two, and that's where the main dipole is located. This actually works, and it results in a very solid stereo image.
With XO as high as 180 Hz the sub's locations become critical, as its easy to hear where they are.
Sure... looks rather ugly though....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thanks.The perfect headphones!
Quite a surprising transition. Congrats on getting that much closer to your ideal!
I fact the sound of the best headphones are in many aspects my ideal.
Beauty
That is the beauty of digital cross. You can do anything. That is surprisingly little boost on the bottom end of the ribbon to make it to 180Hz. Do you think an RD50 would have any chance of making it that low in a smaller room? They are cheaper. Maybe with some 3 inch PVC pipe or round foam as toroidal wave guides.
That is the beauty of digital cross. You can do anything. That is surprisingly little boost on the bottom end of the ribbon to make it to 180Hz. Do you think an RD50 would have any chance of making it that low in a smaller room? They are cheaper. Maybe with some 3 inch PVC pipe or round foam as toroidal wave guides.
Yeah, I was very surprised to find that its more or less flat to 200 Hz. Keep in mind my short listening distance.... at greater distance they do roll off somewhat below 5-600 Hz.
The RD50 should be able to go to 250-300 Hz at least, maybe even lower, but because the ribbon is shorter it will roll off more at the low end.
The RD50 should be able to go to 250-300 Hz at least, maybe even lower, but because the ribbon is shorter it will roll off more at the low end.
Hello there, I'm reviving this to ask you some questions about this RD75 vs normal dipoles... more specific how they off-axis listening.
I'm currently using a pair of omnidirectional monopole BR-speakers http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...9-why-omni-speakers-not-more-popular-omni.jpg
What I really like about them is that they don't really have a sweet spot but that I can listen from wherever in the room, I can even block the direct sound path and still hear all frequencies roughly equally. If I've understood correctly a good dipole speaker will work roughly the same but without box noises and interact with room better.
But now the real question: Does the RD75 line source work like that or is there a more standard sweet spot like conventional speakers? And if high freq off-axis response is a problem, do you think say a single or a ring of super tweeters on each side (like on my omni) would work or is this planar simpy a bad idea with my goal in mind and I'd do better to stick to normal cone drivers? Addition: I don't want to have to treat the room, since I won't have a specific listening room but rather just want to spread and enjoy music in a normal room.
Thanks for your time =)
// Olle
I'm currently using a pair of omnidirectional monopole BR-speakers http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...9-why-omni-speakers-not-more-popular-omni.jpg
What I really like about them is that they don't really have a sweet spot but that I can listen from wherever in the room, I can even block the direct sound path and still hear all frequencies roughly equally. If I've understood correctly a good dipole speaker will work roughly the same but without box noises and interact with room better.
But now the real question: Does the RD75 line source work like that or is there a more standard sweet spot like conventional speakers? And if high freq off-axis response is a problem, do you think say a single or a ring of super tweeters on each side (like on my omni) would work or is this planar simpy a bad idea with my goal in mind and I'd do better to stick to normal cone drivers? Addition: I don't want to have to treat the room, since I won't have a specific listening room but rather just want to spread and enjoy music in a normal room.
Thanks for your time =)
// Olle
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Being a quasi line source, the sound level falls off 1/r, so my RD75 system projects a large soundstage. They pretty much fill all the space in my larg-ish (15,000 ft^3) space with beautiful sound, and I have no complaints. They also project a large sweet spot for HT and image well.
I've not had any real beaming problems, but I do run additional planar elements on the baffle.
John L.
I've not had any real beaming problems, but I do run additional planar elements on the baffle.
John L.
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