Here you go, a decent solution....
http://www.roundsound.com/
Adiva's and a subwoofer are toleratable for a surround sound setup, not for music.
Also if she thinks Bose produces lots of bass from a little box ask her why nothing shakes at all when it plays.... The cone only moves one way in the box I believe, plus it is EQ'ed to all hell.
You need to inform your girl friend each of those little boxes, cubes, has about a $2 driver in them, and that would be an expensive driver for Bose. Plus the subwoofer and boxes etc are made out of crappy wood, really do you want to pay $600-2300 what ever for $100 worth of stuff?
You know there are other girls out there.
Play some thing with symbols on a Bose system, they sound flat like a fart. The same goes for drum high-hats and the like. There is some thing MORE than missing.
The way Bose gives "full sound" is by cutting the signal in and out so fast it is not audible but gives you the illusion of "full sound". Honestly $100 worth of crap combined with only delivering half the sound?
http://www.roundsound.com/
Adiva's and a subwoofer are toleratable for a surround sound setup, not for music.
Also if she thinks Bose produces lots of bass from a little box ask her why nothing shakes at all when it plays.... The cone only moves one way in the box I believe, plus it is EQ'ed to all hell.
You need to inform your girl friend each of those little boxes, cubes, has about a $2 driver in them, and that would be an expensive driver for Bose. Plus the subwoofer and boxes etc are made out of crappy wood, really do you want to pay $600-2300 what ever for $100 worth of stuff?
You know there are other girls out there.
Play some thing with symbols on a Bose system, they sound flat like a fart. The same goes for drum high-hats and the like. There is some thing MORE than missing.
The way Bose gives "full sound" is by cutting the signal in and out so fast it is not audible but gives you the illusion of "full sound". Honestly $100 worth of crap combined with only delivering half the sound?
Wow, this is a very interesting thread. A lot of emotion, to say the least. I give Dave credit for trying to get a Bose like design but with better audio performance. It seems like for a well the thread was on track then got side tracked again.
Any general conclusions? I really like the idea of using the volume in the stand to get smaller enclosure.
Also, which I think was mentioned once. Why not an in-wall speaker? Design a MTM with a 4" driver and a small faceplate tweeter. Use the wall cavity as the volume for a sealed enclosure. If I recall, the Hi-Vi B4N has an F3 of 80 Hz in a sealed enclosure. I think you will need around 0.5 ft3 (I am guessing here). Inside a 3" x 12" cavity, it would have to be approx. 18" tall.
It was in a small room, but I have seen a remote vibrate off of a coffee table while watching one of the Batman movies. Speaker system was AM-10 I think.
Interesting point. Could this be a "trick" Bose uses to get small cubes and a small sub to work together? If the average consumer gets the small speakers they are looking for and the "illusion" of full sound, then Bose and the consumer are happy. At the end of the day, is not the "perceived sound quality" by the consumer that matters?
I am sorry, I am aiding to the “side track” of the thread. I am curious to see the outcome. How close the final design comes to the size of the Bose system, the performance comparison and the price of the DIY system. I love clones.
Any general conclusions? I really like the idea of using the volume in the stand to get smaller enclosure.
Also, which I think was mentioned once. Why not an in-wall speaker? Design a MTM with a 4" driver and a small faceplate tweeter. Use the wall cavity as the volume for a sealed enclosure. If I recall, the Hi-Vi B4N has an F3 of 80 Hz in a sealed enclosure. I think you will need around 0.5 ft3 (I am guessing here). Inside a 3" x 12" cavity, it would have to be approx. 18" tall.
It was in a small room, but I have seen a remote vibrate off of a coffee table while watching one of the Batman movies. Speaker system was AM-10 I think.
Interesting point. Could this be a "trick" Bose uses to get small cubes and a small sub to work together? If the average consumer gets the small speakers they are looking for and the "illusion" of full sound, then Bose and the consumer are happy. At the end of the day, is not the "perceived sound quality" by the consumer that matters?
I am sorry, I am aiding to the “side track” of the thread. I am curious to see the outcome. How close the final design comes to the size of the Bose system, the performance comparison and the price of the DIY system. I love clones.
Speaker systems can ONLY produce an illusion and nothing more anyway.
As for my progress, it was slowed by final exams (which I aced), but finishing my current speakers would be a first step
. Still though, I've found good/small woofer combinations that would do a fine job producing low frequencies for those style folks. Just gotta' figure out how to package it. Anyway, I totally forgot about the thread and I finally remembered why I had a bunch of 2-3" drivers hanging around my work space.
As for my progress, it was slowed by final exams (which I aced), but finishing my current speakers would be a first step
. Still though, I've found good/small woofer combinations that would do a fine job producing low frequencies for those style folks. Just gotta' figure out how to package it. Anyway, I totally forgot about the thread and I finally remembered why I had a bunch of 2-3" drivers hanging around my work space.Well, I didn't read EVERY post, but you gotta ask yourself, how in tune are your GFs ears?
Is she really picky about how well her home theater sounds, or does she just want a small compact system.
I was going to recomend Dayton Audio PN 300-660 and a refurbished Onkyo 5.1 amp cause you could spend around $300 and get something = if not better sounding then a bose home theater in a box, but Dayton no longer sells the 300-660
Oh well. You gotta ask yourself, are you wanting to build what you want, or what she wants. In this case, a Denon, or Harmon Kardon home theater in a box might be a better answer. It sounds like she just wants small, compact, simple, ect.
I picked out a Onkyo home theater in a box for my folks (it was hard enought just to get them to buy that) and it kicks the crap out of bose. Bose are way over priced, dated systems. They were trendy and neat 10-15 years ago. They havn't changed a thing. It's the same old stuff at really high prices.
Whatever you do, please talk her out of Bose
Is she really picky about how well her home theater sounds, or does she just want a small compact system.
I was going to recomend Dayton Audio PN 300-660 and a refurbished Onkyo 5.1 amp cause you could spend around $300 and get something = if not better sounding then a bose home theater in a box, but Dayton no longer sells the 300-660
Oh well. You gotta ask yourself, are you wanting to build what you want, or what she wants. In this case, a Denon, or Harmon Kardon home theater in a box might be a better answer. It sounds like she just wants small, compact, simple, ect.
I picked out a Onkyo home theater in a box for my folks (it was hard enought just to get them to buy that) and it kicks the crap out of bose. Bose are way over priced, dated systems. They were trendy and neat 10-15 years ago. They havn't changed a thing. It's the same old stuff at really high prices.
Whatever you do, please talk her out of Bose
Well people for some reason think "filling the room with sound" is sound quality when you mention that a Bose system is doing that... Then when nothing else does it is assumed better... It is the trickiest farse I have ever heard.
Now if you listen to symbols or something they sound FLAT. The bass shakes nothing... Everything sounds flat, there is no zing. Also it makes me nauseous when I listen to it, and not because I know what it is.... It never sounds good surroundsound wise, it is not directional, I am not hearing things zip around etc....
If what Bose tells you good sound is, is what they have, and you believe them... You become a consumer retard. The person telling you what is good, has that, what type of sucker are you to believe them? "Hey poop on a stick is as high of quality of a stick you can get, would you like to see my poop on a stick I got for sale, no one else has poop on a stick, sticks"
The "trick" and it is a trick, has nothing to do with making small speakers work with a small subwoofer. The trick to that is EQing the CRAP out of the signal, which they do.
Now if you listen to symbols or something they sound FLAT. The bass shakes nothing... Everything sounds flat, there is no zing. Also it makes me nauseous when I listen to it, and not because I know what it is.... It never sounds good surroundsound wise, it is not directional, I am not hearing things zip around etc....
If what Bose tells you good sound is, is what they have, and you believe them... You become a consumer retard. The person telling you what is good, has that, what type of sucker are you to believe them? "Hey poop on a stick is as high of quality of a stick you can get, would you like to see my poop on a stick I got for sale, no one else has poop on a stick, sticks"
The "trick" and it is a trick, has nothing to do with making small speakers work with a small subwoofer. The trick to that is EQing the CRAP out of the signal, which they do.
Bashing bose is good
Quick story:
I went to a outlet mall cause I have a problem collecting fossel watches. I can get them for half the price and less then at the mall. Anyway, one day I was bored, and I stopped at the Bose shop.
I listened to the 901s. Bose top of the line speakers, and they sounded like dog <edited by mod>. Now in all fairness, I'm guessing they were playing some crapy MP3s through them, but my cheap Polks sounded better then the 901s in the store. I played around with the headphones, and listened to some stuff. I was bored.
The bottem line is, if this was 1985, then ya, Bose would be something really cool and up to date. The fact of the matter is, they are extreamly dated. They havn't changed a thing.
This forum is about building speakers and everything, but if you are interetsted in buying a brand name, (high end budget) look at Paradigm, or Definitive (sp?). They both sound great. Paradigm is probably the best sounding speaker for the money. For a brand name already built speaker ready to go.
Still, if your GF just wants compact, I'd just get her the links I already posted. Some people just HATE big speakers.
Quick story:
I went to a outlet mall cause I have a problem collecting fossel watches. I can get them for half the price and less then at the mall. Anyway, one day I was bored, and I stopped at the Bose shop.
I listened to the 901s. Bose top of the line speakers, and they sounded like dog <edited by mod>. Now in all fairness, I'm guessing they were playing some crapy MP3s through them, but my cheap Polks sounded better then the 901s in the store. I played around with the headphones, and listened to some stuff. I was bored.
The bottem line is, if this was 1985, then ya, Bose would be something really cool and up to date. The fact of the matter is, they are extreamly dated. They havn't changed a thing.
This forum is about building speakers and everything, but if you are interetsted in buying a brand name, (high end budget) look at Paradigm, or Definitive (sp?). They both sound great. Paradigm is probably the best sounding speaker for the money. For a brand name already built speaker ready to go.
Still, if your GF just wants compact, I'd just get her the links I already posted. Some people just HATE big speakers.
Acually, I wasn't suggesting that. I guess more women do see large speakers as something that is just in the way. If anyone here is married, I'm sure they've had to ask a million times NOT to use the speakers as furniture.
Another option might be in wall speakers. You can get bigger sound with them (full range tweeter and decent mid range woofer), but they are still out of the way. You can even paint the covers to match the wall.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-282
Just as a example, but parsexpress sells in wall MTX stuff too and they have a really thin sub that fits under furniture. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-047&CFID=1526591&CFTOKEN=41417920
The subject of the thread was Bose, so I'm guessing that money isn't really that big of a issue.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-048
Mixed with a decent Yamaha amp would probably acually sound better then bose and You can get a amp with way more imputs then a bose system has. If your GF or whatever has a 4K budget and acually wants to spend that much, then look in to http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteParadigmProduct/ParadigmModels/Cinema/Cinema_Series.html
For prebuilt brand name speakers, I think they are the best buy on the market. They sound so good. They are very soft sounding, but everything is just so clear on them.
Bose is probably the number one speaker company that acually makes the most money. They probably cost hardly anything to make and then they sell the stuff for a ton of money. I don't know how they keep up the scam, but that's pretty much what it is. I guess they pay magazines off because I don't think any real audio advisor would give Bose the thubs up.
Huh, I tried to use the HTTP:// button to clean everything up and now none of the links work. I tried to delete the whole post cause I don't have time to fix it right now.
Sorry.
Another option might be in wall speakers. You can get bigger sound with them (full range tweeter and decent mid range woofer), but they are still out of the way. You can even paint the covers to match the wall.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-282
Just as a example, but parsexpress sells in wall MTX stuff too and they have a really thin sub that fits under furniture. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-047&CFID=1526591&CFTOKEN=41417920
The subject of the thread was Bose, so I'm guessing that money isn't really that big of a issue.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-048
Mixed with a decent Yamaha amp would probably acually sound better then bose and You can get a amp with way more imputs then a bose system has. If your GF or whatever has a 4K budget and acually wants to spend that much, then look in to http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteParadigmProduct/ParadigmModels/Cinema/Cinema_Series.html
For prebuilt brand name speakers, I think they are the best buy on the market. They sound so good. They are very soft sounding, but everything is just so clear on them.
Bose is probably the number one speaker company that acually makes the most money. They probably cost hardly anything to make and then they sell the stuff for a ton of money. I don't know how they keep up the scam, but that's pretty much what it is. I guess they pay magazines off because I don't think any real audio advisor would give Bose the thubs up.
Huh, I tried to use the HTTP:// button to clean everything up and now none of the links work. I tried to delete the whole post cause I don't have time to fix it right now.
Sorry.
Bose
Sorry to add to all this, but i was a fool a couple of years back and bought the Bose AM 5 II. Thought they were great until I actually started listening to good music, Jazz, classical etc..
Then realised how bad they were, sloppy bass, no mid-range and harsh high end.
I went out and bought a decent pair of speakers(finances allowing, there was a limit). Now my wife is even happy with them.
If your going to listen to music, then forget these little toys. But if you want home theatre, then maybe they'll do, but there are better systems out there than Bose. My ones are now hidden away in my study connected to my computer because thats about all there good for.
The other day I saw an interesting site where a guy had made some 3-4 inch speakers out of PVC piping, and the looked quite funcky.... This gave the speakers a bit more internal volume without looking too big. The whole thing was a speaker enclosure and stand all rolled into one. Sorry i can't remember what the site was called but they were very interesting to see and gave me an idea. He had packed sand into the bottem to add stability.
Sorry to add to all this, but i was a fool a couple of years back and bought the Bose AM 5 II. Thought they were great until I actually started listening to good music, Jazz, classical etc..
Then realised how bad they were, sloppy bass, no mid-range and harsh high end.
I went out and bought a decent pair of speakers(finances allowing, there was a limit). Now my wife is even happy with them.
If your going to listen to music, then forget these little toys. But if you want home theatre, then maybe they'll do, but there are better systems out there than Bose. My ones are now hidden away in my study connected to my computer because thats about all there good for.
The other day I saw an interesting site where a guy had made some 3-4 inch speakers out of PVC piping, and the looked quite funcky.... This gave the speakers a bit more internal volume without looking too big. The whole thing was a speaker enclosure and stand all rolled into one. Sorry i can't remember what the site was called but they were very interesting to see and gave me an idea. He had packed sand into the bottem to add stability.
I'm bracing myself for a full frontal assault....but....I've been a designer at Bose for over 17yrs now and small is beautiful here so I feel for the questioner but I can't quite reach him. Yes, ladies love our small stylish systems but a lot of non-audiophiles do too.
I put and older Bose single cube 5.1 system on the ceiling of my family room for HT use (prewired) and it was simple and the results satisfying. The bass box is inside the closed entertainment cabinet! But I have dual 31 band 1/3 oct EQ on it ($95) so it sounds quite nice for HT. I have custom dipoles in the living room with my stereo system. I'd suggest a Logitech system (they have many) and save the money you'd have spend on Bose (because that's probably the biggest gripe audiophiles have with Bose products). Then take the money you saved and build a line source and even if you're stuck using them in the garage , at least you won't have Bose in the house. Or....submit and buy a Bose Jewel Cube system and delight your girlfriend!
. Yes, ladies love our small stylish systems but a lot of non-audiophiles do too. I put and older Bose single cube 5.1 system on the ceiling of my family room for HT use (prewired) and it was simple and the results satisfying. The bass box is inside the closed entertainment cabinet! But I have dual 31 band 1/3 oct EQ on it ($95) so it sounds quite nice for HT. I have custom dipoles in the living room with my stereo system. I'd suggest a Logitech system (they have many) and save the money you'd have spend on Bose (because that's probably the biggest gripe audiophiles have with Bose products). Then take the money you saved and build a line source and even if you're stuck using them in the garage
, at least you won't have Bose in the house. Or....submit and buy a Bose Jewel Cube system and delight your girlfriend!
chipco3434 said:
Maybe there are none...
I've been following this thread intermittently over its lifetime. While most agree that the B*SE sound is not something we want to imitate, I haven't seen many DIY solutions the size of a small milk carton. (That's 0.25 L to those in the non-measurement-impaired portion of the world.)
Why not? The reason's pretty clear... can't get the bass out of a cube that size. So you've got the mids coming out of the "sub", meaning the bass is localized, yadda yadda yadda.
Maybe, just maybe, our friend the B*SE designer and his colleagues have done a pretty good job given the constraints of size.
That mean I'll buy it? Nope. I think I can extend the WAF to about a 2 L volume.
I won't address the issue of price
or advertising claims 
in my sleep....
hmmm, for very little money:
Elf style speakers (could be as easy as TB drivers, etc, $9 each...$2 for enclosures. Binding posts and internal wire will cost you more. call it $90
Panny XR series of recievers if still available (I found one for $300 USD right away)
cheap Panny dvd , $100
some kind of inexpensive poweed sub (not sure if the Pannies came/come with a high power sub out. If not a decent plate amp (available for as little as $40 on the internet). Any number of small subs (a pair of *" subs mounted in a cube of 12" and Isobaric loading... hm again, available rather inexpensively($25 for 2 GOLDWOOD GW-S650/4 ohms. put em in series and invert the phase of one of the drivers) and . As little as $100 fora dvd /audio setup disc...
somehow 3 5 1/4" 7th order bandpass that makes noise just doesn't seem like it would be in the same league..
No Bose bashing, just a different alternative that may represent better value.
How much do them thar Bose systems run?
hmmm, for very little money:
Elf style speakers (could be as easy as TB drivers, etc, $9 each...$2 for enclosures. Binding posts and internal wire will cost you more. call it $90
Panny XR series of recievers if still available (I found one for $300 USD right away)
cheap Panny dvd , $100
some kind of inexpensive poweed sub (not sure if the Pannies came/come with a high power sub out. If not a decent plate amp (available for as little as $40 on the internet). Any number of small subs (a pair of *" subs mounted in a cube of 12" and Isobaric loading... hm again, available rather inexpensively($25 for 2 GOLDWOOD GW-S650/4 ohms. put em in series and invert the phase of one of the drivers) and . As little as $100 fora dvd /audio setup disc...
somehow 3 5 1/4" 7th order bandpass that makes noise just doesn't seem like it would be in the same league..
No Bose bashing, just a different alternative that may represent better value.
How much do them thar Bose systems run?
Bose has done some neat things in the past. My main complaint is that they are dated and they charge too much. WAY too much.
In the 80s and even the mid 90s, Bose might have been on top of things. For CD and VHS play back, it works pretty well.
The problem with Bose is, you simply have to move air to make big sound. Bose can't do that with small speakers and a tiny sub. Do they have 6' drivers in the sub?
I'm not sure why any DIY speaker builder would want to mess around with trying to make a bose clone. They are not that great. For the price, they are lousy. If R&D got half the money that advertizing got, they might acually be up to date in speaker technology.
Paradigm makes Bose sound like crap. If you can't build speakers, look in to Paradigm. They are probably the cheapest high end speakers you can get without going to the next level. Mono amps, and speakers that cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ each.
In the 80s and even the mid 90s, Bose might have been on top of things. For CD and VHS play back, it works pretty well.
The problem with Bose is, you simply have to move air to make big sound. Bose can't do that with small speakers and a tiny sub. Do they have 6' drivers in the sub?
I'm not sure why any DIY speaker builder would want to mess around with trying to make a bose clone. They are not that great. For the price, they are lousy. If R&D got half the money that advertizing got, they might acually be up to date in speaker technology.
Paradigm makes Bose sound like crap. If you can't build speakers, look in to Paradigm. They are probably the cheapest high end speakers you can get without going to the next level. Mono amps, and speakers that cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ each.
Bose
Couldn't have put it better gvr4ever. Don't like to put companies down, but they really are behind the times. And the quality.....
Plastic speakers made in Mexico.........please.........
Mine lasted about three years before the sub started falling apart, but hey, I saw the light and ditched them.
Couldn't have put it better gvr4ever. Don't like to put companies down, but they really are behind the times. And the quality.....
Plastic speakers made in Mexico.........please.........
Mine lasted about three years before the sub started falling apart, but hey, I saw the light and ditched them.
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