Well how do I know if I really need a new DAC? All I have ever had is a $30 FIIO D3 V1.
But I can tell you this, my system is good enough to hear differences in DAC's. The 1999 Sony XE-500 cd player's DAC sounds like junk compared to my FIIO D3 V1 (with linear regulated power supply not the included switching power supply which stinks).
My speakers are good enough to huge differences between the Adcom 535 and LM3886 I just built:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip-amps/279459-my-lm3886-build-8.html#post4729976
I am going to sell the Adcom.. it just isn't as clear & crispy/detailed as the LM3886.
I just bought the SMSL M8 and will be getting it Friday. If it doesn't blow my mind I'll return it and perhaps try my hand at building one. I like building my own stuff anyways because I'll know more of what is going on and can replace / upgrade parts .. exchange components etc.. and I can choose a case and label that matches the rest of my system. (e.g. I just learned the SMSL M8 has a 78M05 voltage regulator inside on the pcb -- to regulate 9v input down to 5v .. which isn't all that impressive of a low noise regulator no? I could choose the dc supply board/regulator I want if I build my own -- preferably a better one?) Also building things are a great learning experience.
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Just because it's $30, doesn't mean it's bad. That's my point. The Behringer UCA202 punches well above its weight for $20. It's worth first asking the question of whether you're gaining something, or whether you want to build something/get something (absolutely nothing wrong with that, building stuff is fun!).
Now the D5 doesn't do that well, and can't find much on the D3 to tell if much changed. So, yes, there's a decent chance that a new DAC will push noise down. The entire thread just seemed to start with the cart before the horse (at least in terms of motivations).
Now the D5 doesn't do that well, and can't find much on the D3 to tell if much changed. So, yes, there's a decent chance that a new DAC will push noise down. The entire thread just seemed to start with the cart before the horse (at least in terms of motivations).
I don't understand. You don't know anything about my D3 DAC and then you are suggesting to me it's probably good enough and that I don't need to experiment with a new DAC?
I want to try a new DAC to compare to my existing DAC, is that okay? What do you suggest I do? I'm perplexed with your comments.
Are you suggesting I just use what I have and not see if I can improve upon it?
Regarding the D3.. the old original V1's are the best (the one I have).. the latest version is the Tashan (V3) which isn't as good -- doesn't have the same spdif driver chip if I recall.
I think your comment about cart before horse is ridiculous. I don't see the analogy whatsoever.
I think I am pretty smart asking about DAC's in a forum of people that actually build them -- and that have heard many to compare. My horse/motivation is to have a better sounding DAC than I have now. My cart comes AFTER the feedback I get here. I think I am doing things in a quite logical order.
I hope this clears up any confusion you are having about me.
I want to try a new DAC to compare to my existing DAC, is that okay? What do you suggest I do? I'm perplexed with your comments.
Are you suggesting I just use what I have and not see if I can improve upon it?
Regarding the D3.. the old original V1's are the best (the one I have).. the latest version is the Tashan (V3) which isn't as good -- doesn't have the same spdif driver chip if I recall.
I think your comment about cart before horse is ridiculous. I don't see the analogy whatsoever.
I think I am pretty smart asking about DAC's in a forum of people that actually build them -- and that have heard many to compare. My horse/motivation is to have a better sounding DAC than I have now. My cart comes AFTER the feedback I get here. I think I am doing things in a quite logical order.
I hope this clears up any confusion you are having about me.
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My point was that DACs are *rarely* the rate limiter, inasmuch as we like to wax poetic about them. My question was there to ask first, "wait, will this help?" or "what I'm hoping to accomplish?" rather than jumping straight in.
I think you're reading a lot more into what I wrote than what I wrote and taking offense where none was meant. Anyhow, I'm ducking out before there's any further harm.
Edit to add: inasmuch as there are a number of extremely high performance DACs on this site (of admirable engineering), taking people's listening impressions is, well..., hmmm...
I think you're reading a lot more into what I wrote than what I wrote and taking offense where none was meant. Anyhow, I'm ducking out before there's any further harm.
Edit to add: inasmuch as there are a number of extremely high performance DACs on this site (of admirable engineering), taking people's listening impressions is, well..., hmmm...
Thanks for your concern, I appreciate it. I know what you mean.
But if you look at post #6 in this thread, I already asked the question "will this help?". SO I did ask, but not in the first post -- you're correct. But I did have that question in mind and did ask it in post #6. (I asked if the DIY dac mentioned would sound better than my FIIO.)
Link to post #6:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...se-i-need-upgrade-my-fiio-d3.html#post4730839
Btw, from my experience with DAC's, they seem to make quite a bit of difference. The difference between the DAC in the SOny XE-500 cd player and my FIIO is quite huge. And the difference between SMPS and Linear with my FIIO is HUGE as well. So I am hoping for a huge improvement over the FIIO IF POSSIBLE.
But if you look at post #6 in this thread, I already asked the question "will this help?". SO I did ask, but not in the first post -- you're correct. But I did have that question in mind and did ask it in post #6. (I asked if the DIY dac mentioned would sound better than my FIIO.)
Link to post #6:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...se-i-need-upgrade-my-fiio-d3.html#post4730839
Btw, from my experience with DAC's, they seem to make quite a bit of difference. The difference between the DAC in the SOny XE-500 cd player and my FIIO is quite huge. And the difference between SMPS and Linear with my FIIO is HUGE as well. So I am hoping for a huge improvement over the FIIO IF POSSIBLE.
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To be honest, I bet this SMSL M8 I am receiving Friday is more DAC than I'll ever need, based on the reviews.
I just need to build a good regulated 9V power supply for it as I don't like the design & looks of the SMSL P1 they are trying to get me to pay a costly $100 for (lol). There are no vents and it gets too hot -- one person even put a heat sink on top of the case.
The stock unit comes with a wall wart switching supply.. so I'll try it first and hope just that blows away my linear regulated FIIO .. and eventually build a linear for it.
I just need to build a good regulated 9V power supply for it as I don't like the design & looks of the SMSL P1 they are trying to get me to pay a costly $100 for (lol). There are no vents and it gets too hot -- one person even put a heat sink on top of the case.
The stock unit comes with a wall wart switching supply.. so I'll try it first and hope just that blows away my linear regulated FIIO .. and eventually build a linear for it.
Thinking of buying one of these:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/263618-tps7a4700-low-noise-ldo-regulator-pcb.html
And feed it with a 25VA 9V Antek Toroidal. Or another less expensive high quality 25VA 9V that's perhaps sealed in plastic? if that's better I don't know. All I have used is Antek so far and not sealed.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/263618-tps7a4700-low-noise-ldo-regulator-pcb.html
And feed it with a 25VA 9V Antek Toroidal. Or another less expensive high quality 25VA 9V that's perhaps sealed in plastic? if that's better I don't know. All I have used is Antek so far and not sealed.
What's nice is, if I return the SMSL M8 because the FIIO sounds (almost) as good, then I can still use this new supply board I'm getting (along with the 9v transformer) with the FIIO by just reconfiguring the jumpers to output 5V instead of 9V. There would be more heat generated but the draw from the FIIO D3 is minimal. I'm even regulating 13.8V down to 5V with 7805 right now for the FIIO D3 and with the heatsink, the 7805 barely gets warm.
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Got this SMSL M8 DAC in the mail today. Hooked it up to my diy B1 Buffer & diy LM3886 driving Infinity RS2001 bookshelf speakers & powered Polk sub.
Sounds wonderful! More clear, less muddy, less distortion, tighter bass, things sound more exact and accurate than sloppy, etc.. I also find that the USB connection sounds better than the optical connection.
I am happy about the purchase and won't be returning it. Goes well enough with my DIY system:
Can't wait to try this above system with LM-1 bookshelf speakers I want to build Thanks Erik!
Sounds wonderful! More clear, less muddy, less distortion, tighter bass, things sound more exact and accurate than sloppy, etc.. I also find that the USB connection sounds better than the optical connection.
I am happy about the purchase and won't be returning it. Goes well enough with my DIY system:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Can't wait to try this above system with LM-1 bookshelf speakers I want to build
Thanks Erik!
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Should the following kit (with xmos usb board) sound the same as the SMSL M8 above? It uses the xmos usb dsd chip and the es9018k2m as well.
http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-k...2m.html#/dac_option-xmos_384k_dac_and_led_pcb
Was thinking it'd be nice to build one since I was going to build an external linear power supply for the above SMSL M8 DAC anyways.
I could incorporate the linear power supply, dc supply board, dac board, xmos usb dsd board all in one vented 2205 case (which would perfectly match my B1 Buffer above). $90 for the dac/usb kit & $40 for the case. Like $18 for the transformer and probably $30 for the dc supply board. $180 total vs the $250 I paid for the above .. and it would be serviceable and/or upgradeable by me.. also I'd proably use a quiter voltage regulator than the 78M05 used in the above SMSL M8.
EDIT: Actually I'd have about $325 invested in the SMSL M8 with linear regulated power supply I'd have to build for it.. vs $180 total for a completely integrated linear powered DAC in matching 2205 case. So almost half the cost, better looks and ventilation.
EDIT #2: Looks like I'd need to buy a filter board as well? And perhaps some opamps? RCA connectors. anything else?
http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-k...2m.html#/dac_option-xmos_384k_dac_and_led_pcb
Was thinking it'd be nice to build one since I was going to build an external linear power supply for the above SMSL M8 DAC anyways.
I could incorporate the linear power supply, dc supply board, dac board, xmos usb dsd board all in one vented 2205 case (which would perfectly match my B1 Buffer above). $90 for the dac/usb kit & $40 for the case. Like $18 for the transformer and probably $30 for the dc supply board. $180 total vs the $250 I paid for the above .. and it would be serviceable and/or upgradeable by me.. also I'd proably use a quiter voltage regulator than the 78M05 used in the above SMSL M8.
EDIT: Actually I'd have about $325 invested in the SMSL M8 with linear regulated power supply I'd have to build for it.. vs $180 total for a completely integrated linear powered DAC in matching 2205 case. So almost half the cost, better looks and ventilation.
EDIT #2: Looks like I'd need to buy a filter board as well? And perhaps some opamps? RCA connectors. anything else?
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Earlier you recommended to me the I2OverUSB, AK4490 & LME filter combo. Said that's all I'd need plus supply boards, transformers and case & connectors. I'm interested but..
But you have some unidentified tube output stage in this photo with your AK4490. If I recall you also said AK4490 uses tube output stage. But I don't see anything mentioned about tubes on the AK4490 & LEM filter page.. confused.
You wont find anything about tubes on the JLSounds pages; in my build I've used a tube-based buffer instead of an LME board - just my preference. If you recall, I posted the picture originally just to illustrate the sort of nice chassis you can get from China.
Okay thanks.
I think I want to try the JLSounds kit you mentioned along with the LCD pcb. The I2OverUSB, AK4490 and the LME. (Read the highly regarded Schiit Bifrost has the AK4490 in it.. don't know what the multibit upgrade is though.. Schiit wants $200 more for that feature.)
Would this antek transformer be good for the +3.3 and +5 volt supply boards?
Antek 25VA 6V+6V :
AN-0206 - 25VA 6V Transformer - AnTek Products Corp
I think I want to try the JLSounds kit you mentioned along with the LCD pcb. The I2OverUSB, AK4490 and the LME. (Read the highly regarded Schiit Bifrost has the AK4490 in it.. don't know what the multibit upgrade is though.. Schiit wants $200 more for that feature.)
Would this antek transformer be good for the +3.3 and +5 volt supply boards?
Antek 25VA 6V+6V :
AN-0206 - 25VA 6V Transformer - AnTek Products Corp
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The I2SoverUSB/AK4490 combo require two high quality +5V supplies for optimum performance (I don't see anything about 3.3V?). Depending on the regulator boards you use that transformer may be suitable.
The LME module requires +/- 12-15V supplies and will require separate regulators/transformer.
The LME module requires +/- 12-15V supplies and will require separate regulators/transformer.
I too have the SMSL D8. I have done a few mods and with that said. After spending two days at the international newport beach audio show this last weekend which was 14 floors of audiophile nirvana. Where the best the best audiophile equipment descended on Orange County from around the world. I can say with fairly good clarity, there is no DAC that bettered my modded M8 in SQ, until i began to hit the $3-5K range, and then it was still hard to tell, splitting hairs. Basically the more expensive DACS just more bells and whistles blue tooth , fancy milled cases, with crystal windows. Yea, there was a few I can say bettered my modded m8, but not by much, and for an extra $5k-10k....no thanks
This was an earlier version of my mod its a bit different now.
This was an earlier version of my mod its a bit different now.
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I was planning on those low noise power supply boards you mentioned for the +5 volts for the i2overusb and ak4490. THe one with the 8 jumpers to configure the special voltage regulator chip's output voltage. About $30 for a single channel on ebay. Or I could go cheap to start with and use 7805 along with caps & perf board.
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