CS43122 better
As much as I like the DEQ2496 with an AK4395 running direct dropped in for it's EQ processing, digital level control and meters, I have to admit that the sonics of the CS43122/ 4397 are very slightly better in absolute terms. The AK4393 has found it's way into a lot of different products because of it's low price, such as my Firewire 410 that I use for PC active cross, so this keeps my interest in the 4395 high as it can be dropped in to many different sound cards to bring them up to state of the art. I was dissapointed with the PCM1798 and felt it was a step down in top end detail to the CS or AKM dacs and did not live up to the hype or it's high price although dacs that follow it with an expensive tube I/V stage seem to get rave reviews.
As much as I like the DEQ2496 with an AK4395 running direct dropped in for it's EQ processing, digital level control and meters, I have to admit that the sonics of the CS43122/ 4397 are very slightly better in absolute terms. The AK4393 has found it's way into a lot of different products because of it's low price, such as my Firewire 410 that I use for PC active cross, so this keeps my interest in the 4395 high as it can be dropped in to many different sound cards to bring them up to state of the art. I was dissapointed with the PCM1798 and felt it was a step down in top end detail to the CS or AKM dacs and did not live up to the hype or it's high price although dacs that follow it with an expensive tube I/V stage seem to get rave reviews.
"As much as I like the DEQ2496 with an AK4395 running direct dropped in for it's EQ processing, digital level control and meters, I have to admit that the sonics of the CS43122/ 4397 are very slightly better in absolute terms. The AK4393 has found it's way into a lot of different products because of it's low price, such as my Firewire 410 that I use for PC active cross, so this keeps my interest in the 4395 high as it can be dropped in to many different sound cards to bring them up to state of the art."
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Scott
Was the CS43122/ 4397 implemented the same way with EQ processing, digital level control etc ?
The AK4393/5/6 are all interchangable
The AK4395 has a better filter
Allan
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Scott
Was the CS43122/ 4397 implemented the same way with EQ processing, digital level control etc ?
The AK4393/5/6 are all interchangable
The AK4395 has a better filter
Allan
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Same
The CS43122 was run with the same EQ settings running digital out from the DEQ.
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The AK4395 is a drop in replacement except for the need of 5v for the digital supply.
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The CS43122 was run with the same EQ settings running digital out from the DEQ.
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The AK4395 is a drop in replacement except for the need of 5v for the digital supply.
.
.
Okay, I've had a read of the thread but I am totally confused as to exactly what you have decided as regards upgrades.......or haven't you decided
.......is this still a work in progress for you guys?
To clarify things, if I buy one of these right now, what is the general concensus on the things to swap out and/or change?
Many thanks
.......is this still a work in progress for you guys?To clarify things, if I buy one of these right now, what is the general concensus on the things to swap out and/or change?
Many thanks
Okay, I've had a read of the thread but I am totally confused as to exactly what you have decided as regards upgrades.......or haven't you decided
To clarify things, if I buy one of these right now, what is the general concensus on the things to swap out and/or change?
Many thanks
The following comments are in my opinion.....
You don't need to change DAC chips. The AK4393 is an awesome chip.
I'm still trying to find out a little more about the sound of the AK4395/6.
( if I try the AK4395 or 6 and I find it is a necessity I will let you know. Others here appear to think the 4395 is a necessity)
Install bigger power supply tank caps. Voltage ripple is proportional to the current drawn and the capacitance. If you put really big capacitance as I have, the necessity for better voltage regulators becomes negligible, because regulator chips only reduce ripple a certain amount of dB below the incoming ripple, so, if you put really big capacitors before the regulators, the ripple is already very very low.
Oscon, or other brand of solid capacitor is mandatory for any DAC and receiver chip, this seems to be common knowledge by now.
In my opinion Elna Silmic is the best currently manufactured capacitor for low voltage analog circuits.
The bypass and filter capacitors do make a big difference to the sound. I think individual experimentation is required to get the best sound for system synergy.
If you are looking for consensus on a forum, you will probably be looking for quite a while.
I have outlined what I have done, and given some photos.
What I have done is guaranteed to give you excellent sound, and involves the least cost. I promise.
Others have already outlined their suggestions on the matter.
I think this is all you need to know.
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Valve Output
I have just received my board and am intending to use one of John Broskie's unbalancer boards as an output stage.
This board allows for a balanced signal to be turned into an unbalanced signal and is perfect for connection to a balanced DAC.
As is normal with Johns design, and indeed all valve designs, it is easy to change tube configurations to give varying amounts of gain.
As I use single ended valve amplifiers, this ability to add gain to this stage is very useful.
For those using solid state amplification, the second part of this board is a BCF (Broskie cathode follower), which is the part of the circuit that does the unbalancing. This part could be used to provide a unity gain buffer that takes the full voltage swing of the balaned DAC outputs
I have already implemented the unbalancer on a bb DAC with spectacular results ( FAR better than any opamp chip change I have ever tried)
A solid state high voltage power supply is included on the board but I have not ended up using that, instead using a valve rectifier followed by a PIO cap and chokes.
I am very interested in the discussion on voltage regulators etc but would like to ask the question about how important the output stage is perceived to be.
My experiance being that changes to caps, voltage regulators etc, while worthwile improvements,these improvements are much more subtle, a good valve output stage is a massive increase in sound quality.
Mark
I have just received my board and am intending to use one of John Broskie's unbalancer boards as an output stage.
This board allows for a balanced signal to be turned into an unbalanced signal and is perfect for connection to a balanced DAC.
As is normal with Johns design, and indeed all valve designs, it is easy to change tube configurations to give varying amounts of gain.
As I use single ended valve amplifiers, this ability to add gain to this stage is very useful.
For those using solid state amplification, the second part of this board is a BCF (Broskie cathode follower), which is the part of the circuit that does the unbalancing. This part could be used to provide a unity gain buffer that takes the full voltage swing of the balaned DAC outputs
I have already implemented the unbalancer on a bb DAC with spectacular results ( FAR better than any opamp chip change I have ever tried)
A solid state high voltage power supply is included on the board but I have not ended up using that, instead using a valve rectifier followed by a PIO cap and chokes.
I am very interested in the discussion on voltage regulators etc but would like to ask the question about how important the output stage is perceived to be.
My experiance being that changes to caps, voltage regulators etc, while worthwile improvements,these improvements are much more subtle, a good valve output stage is a massive increase in sound quality.
Mark
If you are in Melbourne we should compare output stages as I would be keen to hear this unbalancer. The only thing that I dont like (in theory) about the unbalancer, is how it needs a capacitor on the output and another capacitor after the anode on the +ve input, so, thats 2 caps in the signal path. The cool thing about this board is how it doesnt need caps in the signal path.
Erin
Yes I am in Melbourne (Frankston)
I agree that the best capacitor is no cap and for that reason I generally use only PIO caps when I have to.
But the dynamics from the extra gain with a cathode follower behind it has to be heard.
I will put up with the cap's to get the use of the full voltage swing.
I an currently using 12AU7's for the first stage and Russion 6N6P's for the cathode folloer without bypass caps. This configuration gives a gain of about 8 and an output impedance of less than 100ohms
Yes I am in Melbourne (Frankston)
I agree that the best capacitor is no cap and for that reason I generally use only PIO caps when I have to.
But the dynamics from the extra gain with a cathode follower behind it has to be heard.
I will put up with the cap's to get the use of the full voltage swing.
I an currently using 12AU7's for the first stage and Russion 6N6P's for the cathode folloer without bypass caps. This configuration gives a gain of about 8 and an output impedance of less than 100ohms
Ah Melbourne... just remembered when I got lost somewhere in Thornbury on High Street...couldnt find my way home for hours, GPS went dead and it was 2am and yes, I was under influence...luckily I didnt ran into your famous police officers..
Anyhoo...Erin, first of all thanks for substantial info on your work... I have ordered this DAC yesterday, assembled with a transformer, but with a AK4396 chip..So far I have owned Arcam Alpha 8, 9 , 1541 DIY and lampucera converters...
The reason why I ordered this one was a 10 minute audition of MAudio Superdac which uses AK4393 and sounds awesome ! , way way better than anything before and actually it is my cup of tea..like 1541 is ,but with more detail ...
I have some OScons left and some are on my lampucera... so I would like to use them near DAC/receiver ...the problem is I havent been playing this audiophile sport for a while and lost touch and notes where I write important stuff... and as you may guess I am not an engeneer... ... so could you please find time to post a photo of to where OScons go and what else should be changed and what should be intact... (just circle red where the oscons go on original photo)
As I remeber correctly it is important to insert a good quality input capacitor before 8614...in my case Vishay 1873 (if i remember) 0.1 uF ...
Also a 75ohm connector and a 75ohm digital cable is a good thing..
Thisi is mine, as ordered.
Thanks guys!
Aussie Aussie Aussie, Oi Oi Oi
Anyhoo...Erin, first of all thanks for substantial info on your work... I have ordered this DAC yesterday, assembled with a transformer, but with a AK4396 chip..So far I have owned Arcam Alpha 8, 9 , 1541 DIY and lampucera converters...
The reason why I ordered this one was a 10 minute audition of MAudio Superdac which uses AK4393 and sounds awesome ! , way way better than anything before and actually it is my cup of tea..like 1541 is ,but with more detail ...
I have some OScons left and some are on my lampucera... so I would like to use them near DAC/receiver ...the problem is I havent been playing this audiophile sport for a while and lost touch and notes where I write important stuff... and as you may guess I am not an engeneer...
... so could you please find time to post a photo of to where OScons go and what else should be changed and what should be intact... (just circle red where the oscons go on original photo) As I remeber correctly it is important to insert a good quality input capacitor before 8614...in my case Vishay 1873 (if i remember) 0.1 uF ...
Also a 75ohm connector and a 75ohm digital cable is a good thing..
Thisi is mine, as ordered.
Thanks guys!
Aussie Aussie Aussie, Oi Oi Oi
Ah Melbourne... just remembered when I got lost somewhere in Thornbury on High Street...couldnt find my way home for hours, GPS went dead and it was 2am and yes, I was under influence...luckily I didnt ran into your famous police officers..
Lucky also you didn't run into some crazy lesbians. LOL
Yes
... so could you please find time to post a photo of to where OScons go and what else should be changed and what should be intact... (just circle red where the oscons go on original photo)
Sure, here you go.....
When the caps are next to each other you may need to put one on top of the board and one underneath to get them to fit.
Attachments
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^
Lesbos are much worse in Sydney...they are even more manly than Men themselves...homer simpson type...
Thanks 4 the fast reply, will monitor this thread and post my thoughts when I receive and mod DAC... separate supply digital/analog and jfet output stage . I am positive that is the best way because that MAudio i listened to was modded that way...and man...the sound
Just one question ...in the 2 middle circles should I replace blue caps or blue and red ones as well? ... and 470uF ? is that what was already on the board or what you had in supplies ?
Say hello to Phillip island penguins for me .
Cheers
Lesbos are much worse in Sydney...they are even more manly than Men themselves...homer simpson type...
Thanks 4 the fast reply, will monitor this thread and post my thoughts when I receive and mod DAC... separate supply digital/analog and jfet output stage . I am positive that is the best way because that MAudio i listened to was modded that way...and man...the sound
Just one question ...in the 2 middle circles should I replace blue caps or blue and red ones as well? ... and 470uF ? is that what was already on the board or what you had in supplies ?
Say hello to Phillip island penguins for me .
Cheers
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AK4393 vs ESS9018
OK, so I borrowed a Wyred4Sound DAC1 over the weekend.
So of course I did an AB comparison against this AK4393 DAC kit.
W4S is a very good DAC, it gives incredible detail and pulls sounds from the recording and puts it into the foreground more than any DAC I have head before.
The W4S makes every instrument very clear, I can liken it to turning up the 'sharpness' control on your TV. Every instrument and voice pops out, and has an edge of clarity around it.
The W4S also has massive punch and dynamics.
Versus my build of the AK4393 DAC kit, the W4S is not as smooth, this is my immediate impression. The AK4393 still has plenty of detail, and although the instruments are not quite as well separated as the ES9018, the overall presentation is still of a highly detailed but relaxed sound. The AK4393 sounds closer to a TDA1541, but smoother, and even less digital than NOS TDA1541. The AK4393 sounds analog. No digititus whatsoever.
When listening to the W4S, there was still an incredibly analog sound, but I found myself to be tensing when listening to it. I found it hard to relax.
Although I did not suffer from digititus, in the traditional sense of the word, like listening to a bad CD player from the 90's. I still found myself a little ill at ease.
The W4S also on occasion seemed to have a bass, and treble kind of sound.
The bass and treble seemed like they were separate things fighting for attention. The bass was thick and full and the mid/treble seemed light and nimble. A bit of a weird effect - coming from the one DAC chip.
The AK4393 has a seemless and integrated sound in comparison.
The AK4393 gives up a little detail and dynamics when compared to the ESS9018, but it makes up in smoothness and unfatigued sound.
I almost forgot to say this very important thing, when fed with a poor jittery source, the Wyred4Sound became extremely sibilant, 'S' sounds came out, 'SSSSSSSSSSSSS', Ouch!, but when using the AK4393 it was much more forgiving, only giving a 'sss' in comparison. When fed a good low jitter source, both were well behaved and 'S' comes out as 'S'
Now the W4S is gone, I don't miss it. If I was given it for free, I would enjoy it, and perhaps I would even get used to it. But after a beer, and relaxing on the couch, I would prefer to listen to the AK4393. I think that says it all.
Very soon I will be able to do an AB comparison of the AK4393 vs AK4396 on the same board. My friend has bought the AK4396 kit! So stay tuned for the review....................
OK, so I borrowed a Wyred4Sound DAC1 over the weekend.
So of course I did an AB comparison against this AK4393 DAC kit.
W4S is a very good DAC, it gives incredible detail and pulls sounds from the recording and puts it into the foreground more than any DAC I have head before.
The W4S makes every instrument very clear, I can liken it to turning up the 'sharpness' control on your TV. Every instrument and voice pops out, and has an edge of clarity around it.
The W4S also has massive punch and dynamics.
Versus my build of the AK4393 DAC kit, the W4S is not as smooth, this is my immediate impression. The AK4393 still has plenty of detail, and although the instruments are not quite as well separated as the ES9018, the overall presentation is still of a highly detailed but relaxed sound. The AK4393 sounds closer to a TDA1541, but smoother, and even less digital than NOS TDA1541. The AK4393 sounds analog. No digititus whatsoever.
When listening to the W4S, there was still an incredibly analog sound, but I found myself to be tensing when listening to it. I found it hard to relax.
Although I did not suffer from digititus, in the traditional sense of the word, like listening to a bad CD player from the 90's. I still found myself a little ill at ease.
The W4S also on occasion seemed to have a bass, and treble kind of sound.
The bass and treble seemed like they were separate things fighting for attention. The bass was thick and full and the mid/treble seemed light and nimble. A bit of a weird effect - coming from the one DAC chip.
The AK4393 has a seemless and integrated sound in comparison.
The AK4393 gives up a little detail and dynamics when compared to the ESS9018, but it makes up in smoothness and unfatigued sound.
I almost forgot to say this very important thing, when fed with a poor jittery source, the Wyred4Sound became extremely sibilant, 'S' sounds came out, 'SSSSSSSSSSSSS', Ouch!, but when using the AK4393 it was much more forgiving, only giving a 'sss' in comparison. When fed a good low jitter source, both were well behaved and 'S' comes out as 'S'
Now the W4S is gone, I don't miss it. If I was given it for free, I would enjoy it, and perhaps I would even get used to it. But after a beer, and relaxing on the couch, I would prefer to listen to the AK4393. I think that says it all.
Very soon I will be able to do an AB comparison of the AK4393 vs AK4396 on the same board. My friend has bought the AK4396 kit! So stay tuned for the review....................
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