sorry for late reply bcmbob : I use wires to connect rca ,between converter and dac (saving peny for cable and rca connector). for testing i use usb powered, but i wanna try to use salas shunt reg. also want to try usb isolator (adum).
50E : thanks for advice, but i have been already build, may be i will try someday .
warm regards.
50E : thanks for advice, but i have been already build, may be i will try someday .
warm regards.
I second haik comments re along. I have bought many kits and parts from him over the past 12 months and aside from the price of shipping from China, I fully endorse him on his excellent service and fair pricing. On request, he has even combine shipping on several items and upgraded to DHL Express. I think China Post uses dolphins!
Great service!I second haik comments re along. I have bought many kits and parts from him over the past 12 months and aside from the price of shipping from China, I fully endorse him on his excellent service and fair pricing. On request, he has even combine shipping on several items and upgraded to DHL Express. I think China Post uses dolphins!
Same here, along is a very good seller, he knows his stuffs and very willing to help if you have problem. He fixed my dac and replaced some chips and I only need to pay postage. Fast turn around and good communication.
well that was a huge response to the wrong meaning of my post. I was simply replying to
i'm not anti opamps, not at all I use plenty of them, i'm not a huge tube fan, but discrete solid state, opamp, or hybrid of the 2 is all fine with me, depends on the situation. but all that you would use opamps for here are if your next stage input impedance is a bit low for the dac to drive, or you are driving particularly long cables, in which case you might want a current buffer, perhaps with a low pass filter thrown in for good measure if you like, but given your pre has opamp.
passive resistive or cap output on this dac chip doesnt make a lot of sense is all i'm saying.
btw I also love zfoils and sfoils, I use them whenever I can, in the ASMP SMD version, tx2575, I use the TX220Z zfoil power resistor for the IV resistor in a common gate follower IV for my ESS and I have a bunch of old TX2350, TX220S and TX221Z and an order for some of the SMD Zfoil resistor networks on the way. I would never buy anywhere but direct; some of these above resistors go for nearly $100 each if bought through one of the resellers
I was simply reminding you that if you arent using an opamp for voltage or current gain, which it doesnt seem you need, then there is no need to place a resistor or cap, which is normally a tactic for passive IV conversion. this AKM is a voltage output dac with a ground centered output, so it has no DC offset to cancel with a cap and it has no current to convert with a resistor. adding a resistor just because..will always add noise for no reason.
i'm not anti opamps, not at all I use plenty of them, i'm not a huge tube fan, but discrete solid state, opamp, or hybrid of the 2 is all fine with me, depends on the situation. but all that you would use opamps for here are if your next stage input impedance is a bit low for the dac to drive, or you are driving particularly long cables, in which case you might want a current buffer, perhaps with a low pass filter thrown in for good measure if you like, but given your pre has opamp.
passive resistive or cap output on this dac chip doesnt make a lot of sense is all i'm saying.
btw I also love zfoils and sfoils, I use them whenever I can, in the ASMP SMD version, tx2575, I use the TX220Z zfoil power resistor for the IV resistor in a common gate follower IV for my ESS and I have a bunch of old TX2350, TX220S and TX221Z and an order for some of the SMD Zfoil resistor networks on the way. I would never buy anywhere but direct; some of these above resistors go for nearly $100 each if bought through one of the resellers
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qusp,
I'm sure your absolutely right about the DAC o/put but buying a second PCB is a cost effective back-up, since I took note about the fragility of the supplied PCB. A friend of mine spent a lot of money on his Bada h/amp but because it had so much work done on it and he used a really bad high silver content solder he buggered the board and I don't think Bada will sell him a replacement board.
Re. my hybrid amp, Re-reading my post I can see I was guilty of bad English - it does'nt have any op-amps at all, it's the MC3 phono stage that does.
Re. the Zfoils - Chalfont is also licensed by Vishay to make the Z foils but as in so many products available in Europe it's a case of 'how much can I screw you for'.- Hakko 938 solder station @ $99/ Europe @ $250. AT33EV @$399/Europe @ $600 - just compare TCs prices with Chalfont.
I need to look again at the Vishay range, I was'nt aware about power Rs. BTW, Reiden, which was bought out by Vishay made what looked like very good signal and power Rs, just don't mention Vishay if you are inquiring.
Erin - the Welwyns for me just don't compete with Z foils - I don't find Z foils sterile but totally neutral, indeed I find that they let through so much colour and life that other Rs just mask.
I used to use Welwyn power Rs but again no comparison to Mills.
Darios comments on the Regs he uses was extremely interesting as is the difference in price with Hynes/New ClassD etc.
Erin, your comments on head-fi - spot on. It is now a totally commercial site and if you don't pay - you don't stay. It also has a real bias to all things American. They even once had a thread comparing fire arms - on an audio forum!
Re. Along - I got a positive reply from him about what I needed. Now I need to look through my spares box before I put any orders in.
Erin - you made me think about boosting the capacitance in both my head and power amps PSUs'. Difficult in the h/amp but easy in the power version as it has a seperate PSU board which I intend to 'drop down' so giving me plenty of space to work with.
Stuart
I'm sure your absolutely right about the DAC o/put but buying a second PCB is a cost effective back-up, since I took note about the fragility of the supplied PCB. A friend of mine spent a lot of money on his Bada h/amp but because it had so much work done on it and he used a really bad high silver content solder he buggered the board and I don't think Bada will sell him a replacement board.
Re. my hybrid amp, Re-reading my post I can see I was guilty of bad English - it does'nt have any op-amps at all, it's the MC3 phono stage that does.
Re. the Zfoils - Chalfont is also licensed by Vishay to make the Z foils but as in so many products available in Europe it's a case of 'how much can I screw you for'.- Hakko 938 solder station @ $99/ Europe @ $250. AT33EV @$399/Europe @ $600 - just compare TCs prices with Chalfont.
I need to look again at the Vishay range, I was'nt aware about power Rs. BTW, Reiden, which was bought out by Vishay made what looked like very good signal and power Rs, just don't mention Vishay if you are inquiring.
Erin - the Welwyns for me just don't compete with Z foils - I don't find Z foils sterile but totally neutral, indeed I find that they let through so much colour and life that other Rs just mask.
I used to use Welwyn power Rs but again no comparison to Mills.
Darios comments on the Regs he uses was extremely interesting as is the difference in price with Hynes/New ClassD etc.
Erin, your comments on head-fi - spot on. It is now a totally commercial site and if you don't pay - you don't stay. It also has a real bias to all things American. They even once had a thread comparing fire arms - on an audio forum!
Re. Along - I got a positive reply from him about what I needed. Now I need to look through my spares box before I put any orders in.
Erin - you made me think about boosting the capacitance in both my head and power amps PSUs'. Difficult in the h/amp but easy in the power version as it has a seperate PSU board which I intend to 'drop down' so giving me plenty of space to work with.
Stuart
Stuart, do you have an amp and speakers? Or only headphones?
Headphones do show up more detail, so if your comments regarding z foils are made from listening on cans I understand.
With speakers and amp there is more need to pay attention to other factors such as the amp, speakers and room, and so my comments regarding Welwyn and z foil are somewhat only relative to my own system. Perhaps I should give those z foils another go.
Its a shame about HeadFi because it was once quite a good forum.
With regard to large capacitance, as with any mod, it really comes down to what sort of sound you like. If I was to generalise, larger capacitance gives a smoother sound and also that the bass can go a bit deeper - but some people perceive that to be a slower sound. And I know there are people who prefer to run smaller capacitance and this can give a faster sound.
I guess when reviewing or commenting on such things, to be fair I need to say that I prefer a balanced, but mellow smoother sound. I'm aware that other people prefer different things.
But bigger capacitance is worth a try - as long as you use whatever you regard to be a quality capacitor.
Headphones do show up more detail, so if your comments regarding z foils are made from listening on cans I understand.
With speakers and amp there is more need to pay attention to other factors such as the amp, speakers and room, and so my comments regarding Welwyn and z foil are somewhat only relative to my own system. Perhaps I should give those z foils another go.
Its a shame about HeadFi because it was once quite a good forum.
With regard to large capacitance, as with any mod, it really comes down to what sort of sound you like. If I was to generalise, larger capacitance gives a smoother sound and also that the bass can go a bit deeper - but some people perceive that to be a slower sound. And I know there are people who prefer to run smaller capacitance and this can give a faster sound.
I guess when reviewing or commenting on such things, to be fair I need to say that I prefer a balanced, but mellow smoother sound. I'm aware that other people prefer different things.
But bigger capacitance is worth a try - as long as you use whatever you regard to be a quality capacitor.
Transformer wires
Thanks, I figured that part out, and I used the two white 9v wires for the two wire connector and the brown and yellow wires for the three connector with a brown and yellow sharing the middle connector. It works, but is this correct? Or is there a better way?
Thanks, I figured that part out, and I used the two white 9v wires for the two wire connector and the brown and yellow wires for the three connector with a brown and yellow sharing the middle connector. It works, but is this correct? Or is there a better way?
AKM4396 has DC offset of +2,5V if used direct-out. I'm an enemy of coupling caps, so I plugged it directly to my tubeamp, in which I increase the bias of the driver tube by -2,5 to cancel the offset.
A few cheap possibilites I would try to make the DC offset very little and negligible:
-> find a 2,5V rechargeable battery and put it in series to cancel the offset
-> put a source follower with a matched transistor to drop a voltage little before 2,5V
Too bad it didn't have an offset of -2,5V. This way I could've biased the driver, two birds with one stone
A few cheap possibilites I would try to make the DC offset very little and negligible:
-> find a 2,5V rechargeable battery and put it in series to cancel the offset
-> put a source follower with a matched transistor to drop a voltage little before 2,5V
Too bad it didn't have an offset of -2,5V. This way I could've biased the driver, two birds with one stone
The two wire connector should have the white ones. And if you measure the voltage it should be 12-14V AC. That is normal.
The three ones, are as follows: Yellow - Yellow/Brown - Brown. The middle yellow/brown is connected at the middle screw.
The voltages between the points 1-2-3 (2 is the middle one), should be:
1 - 2 Around 20V
2 - 3 Around 20V
1 - 3 Around 40V (or just double the voltage previously measured).
Of you measure almost 0V on pin 1-3 then it is wrong.
The exact numbers of voltage is not important, the double voltage and the individual ones are very important.
Erin,
I use both h/amp and speakers but my preference is to listen through speakers. A h/amp is the best way to evaluate any mods since there is no hiding place using a good, sensitive h/amp. What has surprised me is that the power version of the Bada h/amp conveys almost as much detail as the h/amp and that with only a change of the coupling caps - I ditch any Solens I find as well as Wimas, though I will give Darios Wimas a chance.
50AE - I was persuaded by my Dutch mate Harry to shell out(spend for non English speakers) for a pair of Dutch hand made silver foil 0.47uF caps - they were not cheap but worth every penny - I shall swap them into the Bada power amp.
For those using cap out with this DAC - ERSE caps, very cheap,very small and better anything other than the most expensive caps. They go deep and the top is as sweet as a nut. You have to buy a minimum of $25 (I think) seriously give these caps a try - a 3.3uF would be a good value to try.
Re. PSU caps - I was lucky enough to buy in lots of Philips LL caps and Rifas both of which are now NOS. Unfortunately I don't have any with enough poke to use with this DAC. The Philips are superb with just a hint of warmth and I can't understand the fanatical support for BGs especially the hugely expensive PSU caps and in a straight fight between the original Silmics (not Silmic11) and BGs, the Silmics bass is way better.
Erin - I once did'nt understand that neutral does'nt mean bland , quite the opposite. Neutral means more of the original signal gets through. So I don't want anything other than a neutral response. With a less than neutral sound timbre and colour is lost. Piano and electric guitar are excellant for showing what kind of sound a system produces, if the music is mellow then it should sound mellow and if an electric guitar is jangly and sharp then for me that means my system is reproducing what is on the vinyl or CD.
A suggestion for those who bought finished boards - instead of de-soldering components, think about cutting just the bodies of the Rs or caps (the components supplied are cheap enough to destroy), leaving the leads still soldered to the PCB - solder onto these and when you are satisfied with your choice of component then and only then de-solder the original legs and solder in the final component choice. Wait until you are happy with the whole sound and take the PCB out just the once.
My limited knowledge is about analogue circuits not digital so this DAC will be a learning curve for me and I hope that I shall approach this with an open mind.
Stuart
I use both h/amp and speakers but my preference is to listen through speakers. A h/amp is the best way to evaluate any mods since there is no hiding place using a good, sensitive h/amp. What has surprised me is that the power version of the Bada h/amp conveys almost as much detail as the h/amp and that with only a change of the coupling caps - I ditch any Solens I find as well as Wimas, though I will give Darios Wimas a chance.
50AE - I was persuaded by my Dutch mate Harry to shell out(spend for non English speakers) for a pair of Dutch hand made silver foil 0.47uF caps - they were not cheap but worth every penny - I shall swap them into the Bada power amp.
For those using cap out with this DAC - ERSE caps, very cheap,very small and better anything other than the most expensive caps. They go deep and the top is as sweet as a nut. You have to buy a minimum of $25 (I think) seriously give these caps a try - a 3.3uF would be a good value to try.
Re. PSU caps - I was lucky enough to buy in lots of Philips LL caps and Rifas both of which are now NOS. Unfortunately I don't have any with enough poke to use with this DAC. The Philips are superb with just a hint of warmth and I can't understand the fanatical support for BGs especially the hugely expensive PSU caps and in a straight fight between the original Silmics (not Silmic11) and BGs, the Silmics bass is way better.
Erin - I once did'nt understand that neutral does'nt mean bland , quite the opposite. Neutral means more of the original signal gets through. So I don't want anything other than a neutral response. With a less than neutral sound timbre and colour is lost. Piano and electric guitar are excellant for showing what kind of sound a system produces, if the music is mellow then it should sound mellow and if an electric guitar is jangly and sharp then for me that means my system is reproducing what is on the vinyl or CD.
A suggestion for those who bought finished boards - instead of de-soldering components, think about cutting just the bodies of the Rs or caps (the components supplied are cheap enough to destroy), leaving the leads still soldered to the PCB - solder onto these and when you are satisfied with your choice of component then and only then de-solder the original legs and solder in the final component choice. Wait until you are happy with the whole sound and take the PCB out just the once.
My limited knowledge is about analogue circuits not digital so this DAC will be a learning curve for me and I hope that I shall approach this with an open mind.
Stuart
I have a specific question.
The DAC kit goes into an "undefined state", when no S/P-DIF signal is present. It gives a +/- 250 Hz, 26 mV output. (when the SP/DIF is available, it goes "silent" and only 0,1 mV on the output is present).
The "auto detect" function in the CS8416 which should give a high or low on pin 15 is not working properly. Even with no input, it shows a low output and the AK4393 (pin 8) is also low. By datasheet is means:
Soft Mute Pin in parallel mode
When this pin goes "H", soft mute cycle is initiated.
When returning “L”, the output mute releases.
When connecting a CD-player (Marantz CD4000) and switching it on, the output changes, and the output on the opamp goes to 0,1 mV. (when no CD is inserted).
Anyone knows why the does not sense "audio or no-audio"? Normally the LED should be illuminated when no audio is connected, by the led is dark.
The DAC kit goes into an "undefined state", when no S/P-DIF signal is present. It gives a +/- 250 Hz, 26 mV output. (when the SP/DIF is available, it goes "silent" and only 0,1 mV on the output is present).
The "auto detect" function in the CS8416 which should give a high or low on pin 15 is not working properly. Even with no input, it shows a low output and the AK4393 (pin 8) is also low. By datasheet is means:
Soft Mute Pin in parallel mode
When this pin goes "H", soft mute cycle is initiated.
When returning “L”, the output mute releases.
When connecting a CD-player (Marantz CD4000) and switching it on, the output changes, and the output on the opamp goes to 0,1 mV. (when no CD is inserted).
Anyone knows why the does not sense "audio or no-audio"? Normally the LED should be illuminated when no audio is connected, by the led is dark.
Very interesting, as just this morning I had a situation where both amps and the DAC were powered up before I turned the computer on. I got a low level yet smooth hiss with the error light on. As soon as Windows activated the S/Pdif driver the error light went out, the "96 present" led activated and the hiss disappeared. I didn't see it as a big problem and suspect that protection circuit/function is not fully implemented in this design.
I'll also be interested in any further details and or mods. With the MyRef amps I'm using, the DAC MUST be on (signal or not) first to avoid some really ugly and possibly speaker damaging noise.
I'll also be interested in any further details and or mods. With the MyRef amps I'm using, the DAC MUST be on (signal or not) first to avoid some really ugly and possibly speaker damaging noise.
CS8416 is the source of your problems - the hiss you mention...
When it loses SPDIF signal, PLL loses lock and VCO frequency drops to ~750 kHz,
and you get the hiss on your DAC output.
However there is a simple solution to this problem - just connect a 11.2896 MHz oscillator
to the OMCK pin on the CS8416 - tried it and it works great.
For a more detailed explanation read page 28 in the CS8416 datasheet.
When it loses SPDIF signal, PLL loses lock and VCO frequency drops to ~750 kHz,
and you get the hiss on your DAC output.
However there is a simple solution to this problem - just connect a 11.2896 MHz oscillator
to the OMCK pin on the CS8416 - tried it and it works great.
For a more detailed explanation read page 28 in the CS8416 datasheet.
BTW. just to mention, on these ebay DAC kits, the OMCK pin is soldered to ground.
So you should desolder the pin, and pull it up, than solder a thin piece of wire to it and connect to an oscillator...
Not an easy task, you have to be very careful not the break the pins of the CS8416, but I managed to do it on two DAC boards so far, so it's not impossible...
So you should desolder the pin, and pull it up, than solder a thin piece of wire to it and connect to an oscillator...
Not an easy task, you have to be very careful not the break the pins of the CS8416, but I managed to do it on two DAC boards so far, so it's not impossible...
erm, what possesses a sane human being to deliberately verify if the opamp works backwards