No need to look it up. I know what I'm saying.
Siltech said that silver oxide is still a pretty good conductor. It is but that's all there is to it.
Ciao,
Hi,
All cables age. The audible result of that is dulled transient response and in some case loss of high frequency response.
For those with a finer palette, lack of inner detail (for as far as that is at all possible with digital media) and change in timbral shading.
If you're eager to hear things, develop your brain first, listen next. Sorry for the bald statement but that's the way I see it.
Ciao,
So how do they sound with age? Worse? just diffrent?
All cables age. The audible result of that is dulled transient response and in some case loss of high frequency response.
For those with a finer palette, lack of inner detail (for as far as that is at all possible with digital media) and change in timbral shading.
If you're eager to hear things, develop your brain first, listen next. Sorry for the bald statement but that's the way I see it.
Ciao,
Disagree
They most definitely do sound either as good, or better than they did 12 years ago, and they continue to put most of the new cables to shame.
So, I guess I would have to say I respectfully disagree with your statement, at least in relation to the Siltechs.
I would tend to agree this is the case for most of my older cables, except for the Siltechs
They most definitely do sound either as good, or better than they did 12 years ago, and they continue to put most of the new cables to shame.
So, I guess I would have to say I respectfully disagree with your statement, at least in relation to the Siltechs.
Hi,
Jack, Siltech developped their range of cable in such a way that ageing can be somewhat circumvented but not stopped.
Not sure what cables you have but I used to be one of the suppliers of Siltech. That in itself does not mean much but my best friend does supply the wires to them so we know what they're made off. Just to give you an idea...
One of the chief engineers at Siltech chose to use silicone based insulators (heatshrink really) so the cable could be put in the oven and the silver reannealed.
A process you won't apply if you firmly belief that a cable does not age....
Ciao,
Jack, Siltech developped their range of cable in such a way that ageing can be somewhat circumvented but not stopped.
Not sure what cables you have but I used to be one of the suppliers of Siltech. That in itself does not mean much but my best friend does supply the wires to them so we know what they're made off. Just to give you an idea...
One of the chief engineers at Siltech chose to use silicone based insulators (heatshrink really) so the cable could be put in the oven and the silver reannealed.
A process you won't apply if you firmly belief that a cable does not age....
Ciao,
The less believable part is the annealing, since the temperature for silver to anneal is 600-700C, and even the highest temp silicone starts deteriorating rapidly above 300C.
Interesting...
It looks like you would be the right guy to ask about this:
1) is there any way of estimating how long the cable will perform at near optimal levels before it begins to degrade?
2) If it's a basically unprotected small gauge wire like the 0.3mm stuff some vendors are offering, placed in a large teflon or cotton tube, it's likely it'll oxidize more quickly. Once it's covered in oxide, is it likely to stabilize?
BTW, I think my Siltechs are Gen 1 (with WBT's) and may in fact be more like 16 years old...
funny thing is... they still sound very, very good... guess I'm lucky...or maybe it's that the WBTs degrade much less than other connectors.
Thanks. That's interesting info.
It looks like you would be the right guy to ask about this:
1) is there any way of estimating how long the cable will perform at near optimal levels before it begins to degrade?
2) If it's a basically unprotected small gauge wire like the 0.3mm stuff some vendors are offering, placed in a large teflon or cotton tube, it's likely it'll oxidize more quickly. Once it's covered in oxide, is it likely to stabilize?
BTW, I think my Siltechs are Gen 1 (with WBT's) and may in fact be more like 16 years old...
funny thing is... they still sound very, very good... guess I'm lucky...or maybe it's that the WBTs degrade much less than other connectors.
It's not only the age of cables, but the degree of usage they've had. As the outside of a conductor oxidises, it forms small non-conductive pits which trap electrons as they move through the cable. These clumps of trapped electrons grow over time, seriously impeding the free flow of current and reducing the maximum power of your system. Occasionally, when enough electrons have built up (possibly over several years) these may break free and you get the familiar 'cable glitch' where a jumbled pocket of classical music is heard while listening to jazz, or whatever - it could be embarrassing, depending on what you've been listening to over the years! It's also the reason why you should use different cable sets for different types of music; minor glitches are always present at low levels and are not so noticeable if they resemble the music you're listening to at the time.
However, in collaboration with top scientists and engineers I have devised a two-stage process to rejuvenate and 'clean' cables. It works like this:
(1) A proprietary signal is fed through the cable at high amplitude in the opposite direction to the normal signal flow. This 'flushes out' the clumped electrons which are collected in a special tank and disposed of.
(2) The cable is shaken ultrasonically for several hours at a number of frequencies which has the effect of 'rounding off' the microscopic pits, greatly reducing the tendency for electron clumping.
Of course the cables will begin to age again immediately, but the treatment can be repeated up to ten times. Annual treatment is recommended.
www.cable-de-glitch.com
However, in collaboration with top scientists and engineers I have devised a two-stage process to rejuvenate and 'clean' cables. It works like this:
(1) A proprietary signal is fed through the cable at high amplitude in the opposite direction to the normal signal flow. This 'flushes out' the clumped electrons which are collected in a special tank and disposed of.
(2) The cable is shaken ultrasonically for several hours at a number of frequencies which has the effect of 'rounding off' the microscopic pits, greatly reducing the tendency for electron clumping.
Of course the cables will begin to age again immediately, but the treatment can be repeated up to ten times. Annual treatment is recommended.
www.cable-de-glitch.com
I usually rinse my cables in sodium-acetate to get rid of left resonanses and intrinsic, spurious 3.rd harmonic instabilities when the signal transfers through bends more than 10 degrees.
But it is very important to do the maneuver outdoors while feeding the cable with your favourite New Age music, allways starting with the left of a pair. Mono-listeners can halfen the time.
www.thetibetancablemunkdiy..com
But it is very important to do the maneuver outdoors while feeding the cable with your favourite New Age music, allways starting with the left of a pair. Mono-listeners can halfen the time.
www.thetibetancablemunkdiy..com
Hi,
1) I don't think so. The wires in the star quad are well protected against airborne contaminants. The most likelu area to suffer first are the plugs and the soler connections. Those WBT plugs from that era were not good sounding. They actually distort the signal, measurably so.
2) Yes, it would stabilize but I'd still recommend cleaning the wires on a regular basis.
I think my set of Siltech cables dates from around 1992. Star quad construction with a braided shield unconnected to the signal carrying leads but it had a fly out lead that could be connected to the chassis of the source.
@SY: my point excactly. The only thing that achieved was to tighten the shrikwrap further making the cable stiffer. It also packed the individual strands tighter together which in turn might have lead to a change in the way the cable sounded.
Cheers,
1) I don't think so. The wires in the star quad are well protected against airborne contaminants. The most likelu area to suffer first are the plugs and the soler connections. Those WBT plugs from that era were not good sounding. They actually distort the signal, measurably so.
2) Yes, it would stabilize but I'd still recommend cleaning the wires on a regular basis.
I think my set of Siltech cables dates from around 1992. Star quad construction with a braided shield unconnected to the signal carrying leads but it had a fly out lead that could be connected to the chassis of the source.
@SY: my point excactly. The only thing that achieved was to tighten the shrikwrap further making the cable stiffer. It also packed the individual strands tighter together which in turn might have lead to a change in the way the cable sounded.
Cheers,
Hi,
I just repeated what the engineer(s), all highly qualified guys with doctorates to show for it, at Siltech's early days claimed way back when.
Nowadays, they offer that service in house in a very controlled way at a premium.
I'm not claiming anything, I just report to others what I learn from far more educated people than myself.
I've been doing so for a long time but you in particular can't seem to remember or care to listen.
Education doesn't stop at the doors of the University. It's an ongoing process.
That said, yes, I'm convinced that cables age not only by corrosion but also by a variety of other factors.
Can be measured too.
Cheers,
I just repeated what the engineer(s), all highly qualified guys with doctorates to show for it, at Siltech's early days claimed way back when.
Nowadays, they offer that service in house in a very controlled way at a premium.
I'm not claiming anything, I just report to others what I learn from far more educated people than myself.
I've been doing so for a long time but you in particular can't seem to remember or care to listen.
Education doesn't stop at the doors of the University. It's an ongoing process.
That said, yes, I'm convinced that cables age not only by corrosion but also by a variety of other factors.
Can be measured too.
Cheers,
Actually you can do slow annealing at reduced temperatures! Of course at 300 C if I did my math correctly it will take just under 2000 years.
If someone wants to send me samples I can of course run distortion curves on the wire. Or they could follow the article in AX and do it themselves to show the improvements.
However when I measured resistors old resistors of the same type measured better than newer ones. That could also be due to changes in the manufacturing process. But in 20 years I can run the tests on the same samples and see if they really do get better with age.
Now any more issues about hearing vs beliefs?
If someone wants to send me samples I can of course run distortion curves on the wire. Or they could follow the article in AX and do it themselves to show the improvements.
However when I measured resistors old resistors of the same type measured better than newer ones. That could also be due to changes in the manufacturing process. But in 20 years I can run the tests on the same samples and see if they really do get better with age.
Now any more issues about hearing vs beliefs?
What are those factors? I'd like to know as I'm experimenting with fine gauge sliver and silver/gold wire, and anything I can do to get it to last longer would be a positive.That said, yes, I'm convinced that cables age not only by corrosion but also by a variety of other factors.
Can be measured too.
Cheers,
BTW, what is your opinion on the Eichmann RCA's and terminals? Any other suggestions?
Thanks for the info. Keep it coming.
Ed: If you derived that using an Arrhenius approximation, you grossly underestimate the time. There's an activation energy that needs to be exceeded to have the annealing process start. Remember, if you keep an egg for 4 minutes at 100C, you get a soft boiled egg. If you keep it at 39C for 6 weeks, you get a chicken.
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