Hi Guys,
The suggestions on the oil looks familiar
It was almost as if I asked which platter spindle lube to use
It would seem it's a matter of personal preference. The bushings came in a plastic bag, and some of the oil leached out. I would guess it to be around 20-30 wt. I think I'll go with maxro's suggestion, and use the 10-40 I already have. Considering the load and speed the bushings will deal with, and it's lack of odor, I think it will do ok.
Thanx for the suggestions,
Casey
The suggestions on the oil looks familiar
It was almost as if I asked which platter spindle lube to use
It would seem it's a matter of personal preference. The bushings came in a plastic bag, and some of the oil leached out. I would guess it to be around 20-30 wt. I think I'll go with maxro's suggestion, and use the 10-40 I already have. Considering the load and speed the bushings will deal with, and it's lack of odor, I think it will do ok.
Thanx for the suggestions,
Casey
Guys, May I make a suggestion ...?
I've been an ardent user of 'Slick 50' in every engine that I've performed a service on, for the past twenty years. This engine oil additive is applied to the clean oil.
I've experimented with using some of this in a couple of TT bearings, without any probs. And before you ask...yes, I have been using the 10w 40 motor oil mentioned previously (!)
Now this Slick 50 stuff ... The infomation says its the slipperiest stuff known to man, short of rubbing two flat pieces of ice together ! As the 'magical particles' (check out the detailed info for yourselves) travel around the moving surfaces, they 'bake' onto the metal surfaces, leaving only the 'Slick 50' coating in contact with itself. In tests, they used a Renault 12 (sacrilege!) around a test track with all its oil drained out to prove against another car (can't remember what now) that also had it's sump plug pulled - BUT had been treated with the magical formula ! It kept going around the track...while the Poor Renault 12 ground to a halt after one lap.
I wasn't there. But I know how much easier gear-changing was in all of my Renault 14's after being treated with this stuff (the engine & gearbox oil was shared in these engines!)
I hope you find this of interest !
Best regards, -Andy-
p.s. - thanks for all the info input guys...it's great having the experience/knowledge being shared here !!
I've been an ardent user of 'Slick 50' in every engine that I've performed a service on, for the past twenty years. This engine oil additive is applied to the clean oil.
I've experimented with using some of this in a couple of TT bearings, without any probs. And before you ask...yes, I have been using the 10w 40 motor oil mentioned previously (!)
Now this Slick 50 stuff ... The infomation says its the slipperiest stuff known to man, short of rubbing two flat pieces of ice together ! As the 'magical particles' (check out the detailed info for yourselves) travel around the moving surfaces, they 'bake' onto the metal surfaces, leaving only the 'Slick 50' coating in contact with itself. In tests, they used a Renault 12 (sacrilege!) around a test track with all its oil drained out to prove against another car (can't remember what now) that also had it's sump plug pulled - BUT had been treated with the magical formula ! It kept going around the track...while the Poor Renault 12 ground to a halt after one lap.
I wasn't there. But I know how much easier gear-changing was in all of my Renault 14's after being treated with this stuff (the engine & gearbox oil was shared in these engines!)
I hope you find this of interest !
Best regards, -Andy-
p.s. - thanks for all the info input guys...it's great having the experience/knowledge being shared here !!
From NjoyTHEMUSIC
Actually I think that may be a great idea. It reminds me of STP Oil treatment we used in the 70s. Slick50, if I recall, is even better. The point is to use a very high viscosity lubricant that will stand on surfaces and fill any surface variations created by wear or machining.
It would be a simple matter to wash the bushing with solvent, apply the Slick50 and try it. If there were any problems, just wash it off, re-treat the bushing with motor oil and you are back to the starting point.
The suggestion has also provided me with a possible solution to another problem - I am building a fluid-damped string suspension tonearm. I have been looking for a source for the silicon fluid used by the factory ones, but with no success. It is very possible that a viscous fluid like Slick50 would serve just as well and offer a huge advantage - availability!
Hot digiddy! I love these forums
Jess
Actually I think that may be a great idea. It reminds me of STP Oil treatment we used in the 70s. Slick50, if I recall, is even better. The point is to use a very high viscosity lubricant that will stand on surfaces and fill any surface variations created by wear or machining.
It would be a simple matter to wash the bushing with solvent, apply the Slick50 and try it. If there were any problems, just wash it off, re-treat the bushing with motor oil and you are back to the starting point.
The suggestion has also provided me with a possible solution to another problem - I am building a fluid-damped string suspension tonearm. I have been looking for a source for the silicon fluid used by the factory ones, but with no success. It is very possible that a viscous fluid like Slick50 would serve just as well and offer a huge advantage - availability!
Hot digiddy! I love these forums
Jess
JesseG said:
Did you give these guys a call? http://www.clearcoproducts.com/index.html
Interesting tonearm project. Definitely post pics and description.
Jeff
Hi Andy,
I have been known to sound like a infomercial for Slick50 myself
The stuff really is awesome..at least in the 2 cars I've ran it in. I hadn't considered it in this application..until now. As luck would have it, Arco (I think thats the brand) has a "high mileage" oil now with Slick50 already mixed in. I'll run by the parts store on the way home and pick up a quart.
Thanx for the suggestion
On another note, thinking about the explantion that Jess gave as to how the pores swell in the bushing under heat, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to heat the oil/bushing in order to get maximum saturation...thoughts?
-Casey
I have been known to sound like a infomercial for Slick50 myself
The stuff really is awesome..at least in the 2 cars I've ran it in. I hadn't considered it in this application..until now. As luck would have it, Arco (I think thats the brand) has a "high mileage" oil now with Slick50 already mixed in. I'll run by the parts store on the way home and pick up a quart.
Thanx for the suggestion
On another note, thinking about the explantion that Jess gave as to how the pores swell in the bushing under heat, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to heat the oil/bushing in order to get maximum saturation...thoughts?
-Casey
valveitude said:
I'm gonna pass on any advice regarding what will happen with that...unless someone else would care to comment ?!?
As Fur the Slick 50...for all thoses bone-idle peeps... (and to make things Run [oops...sorry ! Couldn't resist that, Heh heh !!] a little easier when reading this thread) :-
http://www.slick50.com/
Best,
-Andy-
From vinylkid58
You can be sure I will
From Velvitude
We never did in the old days Just soak for several hours and install - however that dosent mean that it wouldnt help with a highly viscous lube like Slick50.
I think it is relevant that the Oilite holds the impregnated lube on the molecular level (the factory lube is impregnated under very high pressure) so our humble efforts to influence the material may be of little effect. I can not even say with certainty that my habit of soaking bushings in my two-wheeled days were of any significant benefit. I just know that they certainly did no harm.
Anyway, if I were doing it I would wash the bushing carefully in solvent (varsol or gasoline) then plop the bushing in boiling water for a couple of minutes, then into the oil (tongs here please - hot, hot, hot
)
Let us know how it turns out
Jess
You can be sure I will
From Velvitude
We never did in the old days
Just soak for several hours and install - however that dosent mean that it wouldnt help with a highly viscous lube like Slick50. I think it is relevant that the Oilite holds the impregnated lube on the molecular level (the factory lube is impregnated under very high pressure) so our humble efforts to influence the material may be of little effect. I can not even say with certainty that my habit of soaking bushings in my two-wheeled days were of any significant benefit. I just know that they certainly did no harm.
Anyway, if I were doing it I would wash the bushing carefully in solvent (varsol or gasoline) then plop the bushing in boiling water for a couple of minutes, then into the oil (tongs here please - hot, hot, hot
)Let us know how it turns out
Jess
Hi Jess,
I'm not real keen on trying to remove the original lube with solvent. I would have no way to be sure I have completely removed the solvent. My original question on which oil to use was trying to find a reasonable match to the factory lube. I am viewing this, as you stated, as *topping-off*. The fact that the bag they came in shows a oil film, confirms that some of the lube has leached out. Slick50 is compatible with all carbon based oils (I believe) so I can't see it doing any harm. The oil I plan to use is a standard motor oil with the 20% by volume of Slick50 mixed in. This mix will be closest to the surface in the bushing.
As far as the "soak", I plan on "baking" the bushings in the oil bath in the oven at 200 deg. F for an hour or so, then leaving them in the oil until I assemble (this weekend).
How well will this work? Who knows, at a minimum, I don't think I will hurt anything.
-Casey
I'm not real keen on trying to remove the original lube with solvent. I would have no way to be sure I have completely removed the solvent. My original question on which oil to use was trying to find a reasonable match to the factory lube. I am viewing this, as you stated, as *topping-off*. The fact that the bag they came in shows a oil film, confirms that some of the lube has leached out. Slick50 is compatible with all carbon based oils (I believe) so I can't see it doing any harm. The oil I plan to use is a standard motor oil with the 20% by volume of Slick50 mixed in. This mix will be closest to the surface in the bushing.
As far as the "soak", I plan on "baking" the bushings in the oil bath in the oven at 200 deg. F for an hour or so, then leaving them in the oil until I assemble (this weekend).
How well will this work? Who knows, at a minimum, I don't think I will hurt anything.
-Casey
Cooking the bushings might have the reverse affect, forcing the oil out.
Of course if you have lots, there is no harm in experimenting. Your mix of 10-40 & Slick50 should work fine.
I'm using a 50/50 mix of ATF & Bi-Tron, which is similar to Slick50. This seems to work great, no discernable noise from the bearing whatsoever.
Jeff
Hello vinylkid58,
Yep. I was thinking about this on the drive home after I picked up my oil (its QuakerState by the way, not Arco). As the oil bath heats the bushing, it excretes it's oil, as it cools it pulls the oil back in. I plan to run the oil/bushings through this heat/cool cycle several times. I'm heating them to 200 deg. F (about as hot as I want to get the oil), and then cooling them to the mid 30's (the current temp outside). Each cycle should raise the ratio of the Slick50 oil to the stock lube. I figure about an hour of heating/cooling per cycle.
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this will improve the bushings lubricating properties...besides it gives me something to do while I draft my new assembly, and wait for the weekend
-Casey
Yep. I was thinking about this on the drive home after I picked up my oil (its QuakerState by the way, not Arco). As the oil bath heats the bushing, it excretes it's oil, as it cools it pulls the oil back in. I plan to run the oil/bushings through this heat/cool cycle several times. I'm heating them to 200 deg. F (about as hot as I want to get the oil), and then cooling them to the mid 30's (the current temp outside). Each cycle should raise the ratio of the Slick50 oil to the stock lube. I figure about an hour of heating/cooling per cycle.
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this will improve the bushings lubricating properties...besides it gives me something to do while I draft my new assembly, and wait for the weekend
-Casey
JesseG said:Anyway, if I were doing it I would wash the bushing carefully in solvent (varsol or gasoline) then plop the bushing in boiling water for a couple of minutes, then into the oil (tongs here please - hot, hot, hot
Skip the boiling, it will fill the pores with water, preventing the absorption of oil. If I were to try heat, I would bake the bushing in an oven and then drop it in oil. I don't think that filling the pores is that big an issue with a turntable. I think your spindle won't get hot enough to draw out the oil. Plus, you want the oil film when the spindle is first spinning, not just when it has warmed up, hence the addition of extra oil before assembly.
max
Hi max,
Nope, no boiling.
Well...as I understand it, this is how the Oilite bushing works, which is why an Oilite for a .25" shaft is .252" ID instead of the .2505" ID that a bronze bushing would have..it needs the extra clearence to handle the swelling. A shaft spinning at 600 rpm with a side pull of several oz. (the belt) will generate a fair amount of localized heat. It won't get hot, but it will get warm.
Roger that. I will you a liberal amount of the same oil during assembly.
-Casey
Nope, no boiling.
Well...as I understand it, this is how the Oilite bushing works, which is why an Oilite for a .25" shaft is .252" ID instead of the .2505" ID that a bronze bushing would have..it needs the extra clearence to handle the swelling. A shaft spinning at 600 rpm with a side pull of several oz. (the belt) will generate a fair amount of localized heat. It won't get hot, but it will get warm.
Roger that. I will you a liberal amount of the same oil during assembly.
-Casey
Oilite bushings were originally designed to be an interference press fit into a bearing block etc. They are oversize (.252 ID) and +.002/.0015 OD for this very reason. When you press the bushing in, it crushes down to the correct inside diameter, allowing a .001/.0005 running clearance with the shaft. I've never seen an Oilite bushing seize on a shaft, even running at less than .0005 clearance.
Not sure about this swelling issue, never experienced this myself, and your turntable bearing isn't going to create enough heat to worry about thermal expansion.
Jeff
vinylkid58-
Well then... I understood it wrong. Your explanation makes perfect sense, THANK YOU! You learnt me somthin' .
Anyhoo, I still think that the spinning shaft extracts the oil..I'm just not sure of the mechanism ( as always, I could be wrong), vacuum from the spinning shaft maybe?. As pointed out in a earlier post, many DD Japanese TT's used them, and as far as I can remember ( I was a service tech for many years), none of them had an indepenent oil well, so the bushing HAD to be self oiling...right?
-Casey
Well then... I understood it wrong
. Your explanation makes perfect sense, THANK YOU! You learnt me somthin' .Anyhoo, I still think that the spinning shaft extracts the oil..I'm just not sure of the mechanism ( as always, I could be wrong), vacuum from the spinning shaft maybe?. As pointed out in a earlier post, many DD Japanese TT's used them, and as far as I can remember ( I was a service tech for many years), none of them had an indepenent oil well, so the bushing HAD to be self oiling...right?
-Casey
God bless 'em, they provided me a decent living, until it became cheaper to relace than repair.
I made a happy discovery
. Whether or not heating the oil along with the bushing provides the best penetration, It turns out the Slick50 apparently needs the heat to bond. When I wiped my hands after handling the cold oil, it came off like any other oil, but, when I got some on my hands playing "hot potato" with the bushings/oil after heating in the oven, it left a slick film on my fingers after wiping..and wiping..and wiping. It almost feels like I was handling graphite powder.Cold, the oil looks slightly cloudy. But hot it turns a slight pink hue, much like ATF. It seems it needs the heat to go into complete suspension. I now plan to soak my spindle in hot Slick50 as well.
Time for a scrubin'..I doubt this stuff bonding to me is a particular good thing
-Casey
valveitude said:
It doesn't have to be spinning. The oil forms a weak bond to the surface with the metal surfaces. Just like capillary action, wherein liquid is drawn into a small tube or a small space between two surfaces. The closer the surfaces, the more pronounced the effect as it begins to dominate over other forces, such as gravity.
Sheldon
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