-------------------------------------------------------------------------------brianboru said:hello chaps - thank you one and all for your excellent advice. i never imagined i'd get such helpful responses!
As a complete ignoramus on circuits and electrickery, I'm not sure it would be too wise for me to go ahead with the 13ohm combination until i get the resistance measured by someone in the know. One thing is for sure, I can't let Absolute Sounds win this battle. Over the weekend I'm going to formulate some kind of strategy to extrapolate the info from them - whilst it doesn't involve blackmailD ) it will involve informing Krell what a bad name Absolute Sounds is giving their customers in the UK. I also have a few legal friends who may be able to point me in the right direction law-wise. I just can't see how it can cost $1000 to convert a machine that cost $2000.
Finally, when I do eventually get this machine converted, I will let you know how it was done and what the winning combination was... In the meantime I wish you all the best and thank you once more for your help.
Regards
Brian.
Simple. Go to the next hifi show when you know that Dan Agostino will be there and ask him nicely. I did, and his minions let me have the cobo for the Krell 20i the next week.
It is digusting that they want to charge £150 for throwing 2 to 3 switches.
Report them to the EU!!!
Another thing to try although you WILL have to be careful as this could prove lethal if done wrong. Unhook ALL the wires from the transformer to the amp PCB's ie the once NOT going to the switches. Then wrap insulating tape round the wires so they cant come in to contact with anything. Take two wires from a set of secondaries and connect the amp to the mains, measure the output voltage on these secondaries at the settings you bought the amp with, then put the switches in the 13 ohm position and then measure the voltage at the same set of secondaries. If the voltage halves then you have the correct position.
NOTE THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING
NOTE THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING
---------------------------------------------------------------------tbla said:
wich brings me to......i just bought such a beast - from new york.
a nice bottle of chianti is comming your way - can i have the combination please.......
and btw do you know how to take this thing apart.........
What people will do for a bottle!
Face the unit. Remove screws from both end plates. Remove screws from bottom of front plate. The top will slide up. Be careful, there are two cables connected inside.
There are 3 red switches near the PS. 1,2,2 is 220V ; 2,2,2 is 240V.
I suggest you set this at 240V as the Krell does run rather hot at rated voltage. As a check, 2,1,1 is 120V, I think.
You move the switches at your own risk. I am not responsible in any way or form.
i found these words in a an add from a us dealer......
"UPDATE: For Krell only. Modern Krell units will not work with a regular voltage step-down transformer because there are also a few chips inside the unit that sense the line frequency and they will disable the power supply if 50Hz is sensed. Krell no longer changes voltage at the US factory. The good news is, I now know an expert who can convert all Krell units voltage to anywhere in the world for $200 each + shipping both ways (to him and back to me). Yes, this expert is very reliable. "
"UPDATE: For Krell only. Modern Krell units will not work with a regular voltage step-down transformer because there are also a few chips inside the unit that sense the line frequency and they will disable the power supply if 50Hz is sensed. Krell no longer changes voltage at the US factory. The good news is, I now know an expert who can convert all Krell units voltage to anywhere in the world for $200 each + shipping both ways (to him and back to me). Yes, this expert is very reliable. "
i also found this....a guy reviewing the p300 powerplant from ps audio - this thing can change the freq output from 50hz to 120hz.........
"I used the P300 mainly with a Krell KPS 20-iL CD player and with a variety of power cords into and out of it."
"The P300 has a switchable front panel display that indicates the total wattage being consumed, or the frequency of the AC power being passed to its outlets. Two push buttons allow changing the frequency up or down between 50 and 120 Hz, in 5 Hz increments"
"In my case, the Krell KPS 20-iL CD player consumed 80 watts at rest and 110 watts when playing. The P300 became warm when the CD player was running, but not excessively so, such that a hand could comfortably be placed on its top."
"On the Krell CD player, the effects of changing frequency output from the P300 were subtle but evident. When ramping the frequency up from the standard 60 Hz, the system became somewhat more dynamic and lively on most material. However, at the maximum 120 Hz output, things became thinner, with a bit of a tinny character on some software. On the other hand, reducing the output to 50 Hz (lowest allowable) seemed to produce a more mellow, damped system sound. So, what have we got here? Another tone control, that’s what--to be added to the repertoire of Black Diamond Racing Cones and Vibrapods, room treatments, power cords, speaker cables, etc. I ended up liking 70-80 Hz the best since that pumped just a trace more life into most software. Certainly, the provision for changing output frequency is a real advantage."
so i guess this freq thing is not a problem at all.....
"I used the P300 mainly with a Krell KPS 20-iL CD player and with a variety of power cords into and out of it."
"The P300 has a switchable front panel display that indicates the total wattage being consumed, or the frequency of the AC power being passed to its outlets. Two push buttons allow changing the frequency up or down between 50 and 120 Hz, in 5 Hz increments"
"In my case, the Krell KPS 20-iL CD player consumed 80 watts at rest and 110 watts when playing. The P300 became warm when the CD player was running, but not excessively so, such that a hand could comfortably be placed on its top."
"On the Krell CD player, the effects of changing frequency output from the P300 were subtle but evident. When ramping the frequency up from the standard 60 Hz, the system became somewhat more dynamic and lively on most material. However, at the maximum 120 Hz output, things became thinner, with a bit of a tinny character on some software. On the other hand, reducing the output to 50 Hz (lowest allowable) seemed to produce a more mellow, damped system sound. So, what have we got here? Another tone control, that’s what--to be added to the repertoire of Black Diamond Racing Cones and Vibrapods, room treatments, power cords, speaker cables, etc. I ended up liking 70-80 Hz the best since that pumped just a trace more life into most software. Certainly, the provision for changing output frequency is a real advantage."
so i guess this freq thing is not a problem at all.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------tbla said:i also found this....a guy reviewing the p300 powerplant from ps audio - this thing can change the freq output from 50hz to 120hz.........
"I used the P300 mainly with a Krell KPS 20-iL CD player and with a variety of power cords into and out of it."
"The P300 has a switchable front panel display that indicates the total wattage being consumed, or the frequency of the AC power being passed to its outlets. Two push buttons allow changing the frequency up or down between 50 and 120 Hz, in 5 Hz increments"
"In my case, the Krell KPS 20-iL CD player consumed 80 watts at rest and 110 watts when playing. The P300 became warm when the CD player was running, but not excessively so, such that a hand could comfortably be placed on its top."
"On the Krell CD player, the effects of changing frequency output from the P300 were subtle but evident. When ramping the frequency up from the standard 60 Hz, the system became somewhat more dynamic and lively on most material. However, at the maximum 120 Hz output, things became thinner, with a bit of a tinny character on some software. On the other hand, reducing the output to 50 Hz (lowest allowable) seemed to produce a more mellow, damped system sound. So, what have we got here? Another tone control, that’s what--to be added to the repertoire of Black Diamond Racing Cones and Vibrapods, room treatments, power cords, speaker cables, etc. I ended up liking 70-80 Hz the best since that pumped just a trace more life into most software. Certainly, the provision for changing output frequency is a real advantage."
so i guess this freq thing is not a problem at all.....
First you will have to invest in a P300 or P600 for amps. Second, the P300 is way too noisy as a standard unit; I spent quite a bit of time fitting a new fan and finding the lowest voltage at which it will keep the P300 coolish. Ths standard design ius crap.
Where is my Chianti?
You experience with Krell/Absolute Sounds surprises me. You'd think the more you pay for the product the better the service would get.
I have a lot of experience in manufacturing and distribution. I think it extremely unlikely that changing the voltage/freq would require anything more complicated than flicking switches and replacing a fuse. The dealers would never be expected to get a soldering iron out or have to replace ICs or anything that complex or likely to cause secondary damage due to, say, static discharge or overheating.
The assertion that Krell would include a special circuit for detecting mains frequency and disabling the supply if it is not 60Hz seems rediculous to me. I could sort of imagine that they might have an ac detection to shut the supply down quickly if there were a fault or the mains was disconnected. Even so.
Basically the dealers are no better than car salesmen. Remember the grey import fiasco regarding cars? EU law has now been changed to compel dealers to provide equal service to those who bought their cars outside the UK. Absolute Sounds look at it this way: they don't want you to be advantaged by buying from the US because they lose their 100% or so commission to a US dealer. So they will set the price for voltage conversion such that there is no advantage. Absolute Sounds don't like people who bypass them. Same reason that DVD has country codes (which I think should be illegal, personally).
I would be interested in your guarantee situation. If you have bought from the US what happens if something goes wrong? Is your guarantee effective in the UK or would you need to ship the unit back to the US dealer? Does your own resetting of the voltage void your guarantee?
I have a lot of experience in manufacturing and distribution. I think it extremely unlikely that changing the voltage/freq would require anything more complicated than flicking switches and replacing a fuse. The dealers would never be expected to get a soldering iron out or have to replace ICs or anything that complex or likely to cause secondary damage due to, say, static discharge or overheating.
The assertion that Krell would include a special circuit for detecting mains frequency and disabling the supply if it is not 60Hz seems rediculous to me. I could sort of imagine that they might have an ac detection to shut the supply down quickly if there were a fault or the mains was disconnected. Even so.
Basically the dealers are no better than car salesmen. Remember the grey import fiasco regarding cars? EU law has now been changed to compel dealers to provide equal service to those who bought their cars outside the UK. Absolute Sounds look at it this way: they don't want you to be advantaged by buying from the US because they lose their 100% or so commission to a US dealer. So they will set the price for voltage conversion such that there is no advantage. Absolute Sounds don't like people who bypass them. Same reason that DVD has country codes (which I think should be illegal, personally).
I would be interested in your guarantee situation. If you have bought from the US what happens if something goes wrong? Is your guarantee effective in the UK or would you need to ship the unit back to the US dealer? Does your own resetting of the voltage void your guarantee?
traderbam said:You experience with Krell/Absolute Sounds surprises me. You'd think the more you pay for the product the better the service would get.
Basically the dealers are no better than car salesmen. Remember the grey import fiasco regarding cars? EU law has now been changed to compel dealers to provide equal service to those who bought their cars outside the UK. Absolute Sounds look at it this way: they don't want you to be advantaged by buying from the US because they lose their 100% or so commission to a US dealer. So they will set the price for voltage conversion such that there is no advantage. Absolute Sounds don't like people who bypass them. Same reason that DVD has country codes (which I think should be illegal, personally).
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Not surprising. Absolute Sounds and Krell have been behaving like this for years. This why I will not buy from them but from overseas where the dealers will convert them for free.
The Krell behaviour is anti-competitive and probablt illegal. In any case it is immoral. People who have trouble in UK should ask Which to intervene.
Hello all - I got a message today from Krell's service manager... I had sent a couple of emails to Krell asking them about the voltage conversion process. Here is the gist of what he said:
Krell happily did the voltage conversions for other countries up until two years ago when their international dealer network started kicking up a fuss. People were importing the units from all over the US with no problem at all - but when their equipment broke down they brought it into their local distributor and asked for it to be fixed under warranty (even though the distributor didn't import the unit or have anything to do with it). The warranties were transferable from country to country and owner to owner and hence the dealers were obliged to help for free.
Since they changed their policy they have introduced a microprocessor that detects the change in frequency from 50hz to 60hz. So even a step-down transformer would not do the trick... (However my 300iL is discontinued model so may not have one - also the only replaceable chip i can see says 50/60hz on it...)
He made it clear that he wasn't "crazy about this policy" but that he can't force distributors to work on units they did not import for free.
The email was very pleasant and I was glad he took time out to write a letter explaining the reasoning for this voltage conversion hoo-haa. I understand their viewpoint and take on board all his points. The distributors have to make money, the units have to have good backup service etc. etc. However the bottom line is that I'm being asked $1000 for a voltage conversion. That is outrageous whichever way you look at it. £150 (~$300) seems reasonable in comparison and I think at this stage I'd be happy to pay that. I'm going to reply and ask him how the voltage conversion process can cost that much. I should only have to pay labour and any parts required. If there is a premium on top of that to disadvantage people importing then there are some serious issues that need to be taken up... As Traderbam says, there was a similar situation with the car market that was ruled in favour of the consumer.
I still have several ideas that I'm going to explore before I do any kind of business with those rip-off merchants at Absolute Sounds....I'm not ready to cave in just yet.
As for the guarantee situation that Traderbam asked: any tinkering with the unit in any shape or form voids the warranty. They even specify voltage conversion.
Krell happily did the voltage conversions for other countries up until two years ago when their international dealer network started kicking up a fuss. People were importing the units from all over the US with no problem at all - but when their equipment broke down they brought it into their local distributor and asked for it to be fixed under warranty (even though the distributor didn't import the unit or have anything to do with it). The warranties were transferable from country to country and owner to owner and hence the dealers were obliged to help for free.
Since they changed their policy they have introduced a microprocessor that detects the change in frequency from 50hz to 60hz. So even a step-down transformer would not do the trick... (However my 300iL is discontinued model so may not have one - also the only replaceable chip i can see says 50/60hz on it...)
He made it clear that he wasn't "crazy about this policy" but that he can't force distributors to work on units they did not import for free.
The email was very pleasant and I was glad he took time out to write a letter explaining the reasoning for this voltage conversion hoo-haa. I understand their viewpoint and take on board all his points. The distributors have to make money, the units have to have good backup service etc. etc. However the bottom line is that I'm being asked $1000 for a voltage conversion. That is outrageous whichever way you look at it. £150 (~$300) seems reasonable in comparison and I think at this stage I'd be happy to pay that. I'm going to reply and ask him how the voltage conversion process can cost that much. I should only have to pay labour and any parts required. If there is a premium on top of that to disadvantage people importing then there are some serious issues that need to be taken up... As Traderbam says, there was a similar situation with the car market that was ruled in favour of the consumer.
I still have several ideas that I'm going to explore before I do any kind of business with those rip-off merchants at Absolute Sounds....I'm not ready to cave in just yet.
As for the guarantee situation that Traderbam asked: any tinkering with the unit in any shape or form voids the warranty. They even specify voltage conversion.
Since they changed their policy they have introduced a microprocessor that detects the change in frequency from 50hz to 60hz. So even a step-down transformer would not do the trick... (However my 300iL is discontinued model so may not have one - also the only replaceable chip i can see says 50/60hz on it...)
He made it clear that he wasn't "crazy about this policy" but that he can't force distributors to work on units they did not import for free.
--------------------------------------------------------------
This is nonsense. Nobody else does this. All they need to do is to make the warranty region dependent.
I don't believe that Krell dealers can force the company to put in a chip that costs $1000 to replace!
More likely is that Krell dealers in the far east charge US prices whereas in the UK it's US price x exchange rate.
Just don't buy Krell.
He made it clear that he wasn't "crazy about this policy" but that he can't force distributors to work on units they did not import for free.
--------------------------------------------------------------
This is nonsense. Nobody else does this. All they need to do is to make the warranty region dependent.
I don't believe that Krell dealers can force the company to put in a chip that costs $1000 to replace!
More likely is that Krell dealers in the far east charge US prices whereas in the UK it's US price x exchange rate.
Just don't buy Krell.
Measurements..
I just did some measurement over the black-white mains wires in my 300iL with the switches in different positions, and I didn't get 13 ohm for any of them. This is with a digital multimeter.
My measurements
SW1-SW2-SW3 ohm
1-1-1 3
2-1-1 3.2
1-2-1 4.4
2-2-1 4.5
1-1-2 3
2-1-2 3.2
1-2-2 4.6
2-2-2 4.6
So it seems SW1 causes very little change in impedance, while SW2 changes it by about 50%. I'm unshure about SW3.
Furthermore, there's a chip on the front panel circuit board with a white label stating 300iL v1.06 60Hz.
More strangely, there's a label underneat the power connector saying 50/60 Hz on the back panel..
I just did some measurement over the black-white mains wires in my 300iL with the switches in different positions, and I didn't get 13 ohm for any of them. This is with a digital multimeter.
My measurements
SW1-SW2-SW3 ohm
1-1-1 3
2-1-1 3.2
1-2-1 4.4
2-2-1 4.5
1-1-2 3
2-1-2 3.2
1-2-2 4.6
2-2-2 4.6
So it seems SW1 causes very little change in impedance, while SW2 changes it by about 50%. I'm unshure about SW3.
Furthermore, there's a chip on the front panel circuit board with a white label stating 300iL v1.06 60Hz.
More strangely, there's a label underneat the power connector saying 50/60 Hz on the back panel..
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