Sorry to confuse. What I meant by that was that the MA stuff is better at bass and better suited to apps where a sub or woofer isn't used. As in, you don't need to use a subwoofer with them. Yes I'd agree the smaller ones certainly benefit. Even the bigger ones benefit. But if someone doesn't want to use bass support, then MA is the first place I'd point them to.
Still need to be careful with them as there's been a few popped cones and such
OK - gotcha now. FWIW, I've yet to damage any of Mark's drivers from over-excursion - but the metal cones are easy to dent.
As noted in the MA forum, I recently spend a full afternoon listening to the new 10P and 12P, and for music at the levels that I normally listen, the 7watt SE amp will start to compress dynamic and get congested long before the larger paper cones suffer.
edit: oh, yes the 12Ps have no dearth of energy in the bottom octaves in the Pensils. The week-end session with the 10Ps in rear mouth FHXLs got me thinking again about Scott's Megalith series Avebury for the 12Ps, but there's only one room I'm aware of that could likely not get in their way.
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some folks are just more sensitive to things that don't necessary show up on measurement data
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I've built a simple full range with that Fountek and there is no issue with the response. It's a great first project since it isn't a large project or overly expensive. I started with Fostex (FE127E) and the 'shout' in the treble almost put me off full range altogether even though it was/is a very well regarded driver - each listener has his/her own preferences. The Fountek has no such issues for me - it isn't as clean or pure as some others but it serves very well. A few others have built small boxes for this driver and been pleased with the results. I built a pair for my sister and the pair I have at home is used every day by my son.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/175056-martello-enclosure-fr88ex.html
Once you have this first project under your belt you'll appreciate more what the Alpair 10.3 can do. I am just working with this driver now on a new project (Pencil) and it is really very nice but it's more work with a larger and heavier cabinet, a longer break-in period and total higher cost.
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Fair enough, but as you know some folks find something "amiss" with the 85s - not me either
As for the Fountek 88s, we built a few designs with those, earlier this year I think, and while they did nothing offensive at all, depending on what price you paid for them, I personally prefer the MA CHR70, or FF85Wk. There is a bewildering range of choices in this price / size range, and I think it's fair to say that as with elsewhere, no consensus as to a singular outstanding "winner" .
Cal - should be a relatively straight forward swap, and I think you'll notice a marked difference in tonal balance for sure. Just be ready for the long / slow break-in ride, and you might need to adjust damping fill - a bit tricky on this enclosure for a guy with full size hands. I almost said something smutty about newlyweds, but though better of it.
Thanks Chris,
Long slow break in? No chance man. I'm not only brutal, I'm impatient. The neighbours will know what I am doing. hehe
Stuffing? My honey can help with that but good to know.
This is a no-smut site Chris.
Back to topic.
tap 'er light for the first 100-200 hrs
clever innuendo and double entendre trumps blatant crass every time - that is what we're doing, right?
Break-in is an interesting topic for speaker drivers, as well as cars.
As we all know the general consensus for cars for a LONG, LONG, time was that a "nice and easy/ gentle" break in was best for the engine. Now we know better and those car enthusiasts who care warm the engine up for the first time, and then pound the gas throttle mercilessly. Who knew that a hard engine-break in results in a better piston ring seal, resulting in more MPG, HP, and reliability.
So what's the theory behind easy speaker break-in?
As we all know the general consensus for cars for a LONG, LONG, time was that a "nice and easy/ gentle" break in was best for the engine. Now we know better and those car enthusiasts who care warm the engine up for the first time, and then pound the gas throttle mercilessly. Who knew that a hard engine-break in results in a better piston ring seal, resulting in more MPG, HP, and reliability.
So what's the theory behind easy speaker break-in?
Here's another vote for the Markaudio chr-70. It's what I chose recently for my first full range project. I am very impressed what these little, relatively inexpensive drivers can do in their pencil cabinets. Highly recommended for a beginner....if I can do it, anybody can do it. True full range without crossovers or woofs for now, and loving it.
Break-in is an interesting topic for speaker drivers, as well as cars.
As we all know the general consensus for cars for a LONG, LONG, time was that a "nice and easy/ gentle" break in was best for the engine. Now we know better and those car enthusiasts who care warm the engine up for the first time, and then pound the gas throttle mercilessly. Who knew that a hard engine-break in results in a better piston ring seal, resulting in more MPG, HP, and reliability.
So what's the theory behind easy speaker break-in?
Oh boy, you just launched this topic down the rabbit hole... Breakin is a truly mysterious subject. I feel like I understand less about it (truly) the more i play with drivers. I have thrashed the crap out of many drivers, even truly brand new ones while working at Feastrex. While it is clear that you can "overrev" engines at any stage, and "overexcurse" speaker drivers to the point of damaging them, i have personally not found a positive correlation to good final tone from any specific treatment other than many hours of consistent playback of a variety of real music at real world volume levels. Test tones like white or pink noise or extreme volumes for hundreds of hours or heavy bass can often make the "mature sound" of a driver come out seemingly different (worse) than real music at real volumes in my experience but i couldnt tell you why. Even stranger, if you go back to real music for many more hundreds of hours, the sound eventually seems to recover to the naturally broken in sound. (Huh?)
I do recommend to start out somewhat slow with a driver or a motor, if only to get a psychological handle on a loudspeakers'/engines' performance before wringing its neck, and perhaps breaking your own... Or perhaps if only to keep from overreving/overexcursing your new baby unduly.
Personal rec's for current production for drivers are prettymuch covered in previous posts. The FE103En is another good option as well. Its got a little bit of zing in the upper register, but is not as zingey as something with a metal dome on it.
My advice is to try something, anything out thats been mentioned on this thread and enjoy the process. You probably won't hit a bullseye on the first try no matter which driver you choose. Its your own skill/patience as a speaker builder that will be the most audible factor in the final sound. And you can start improving that by just diving in somewhere.
Best,
Clark
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Jan, that could open the door to yet another round of pointless argument - my own opinion is that it can't hurt to be cautious during the first few weeks, and even when comfortable "giving 'er", be aware that any of the smaller FR drivers yet named will have their limits for both SPL and the extend of bass they can achieve.
The CHR70 is a great value driver - if budget can be stretched, I can highly recommend the A7.3 - there are lots of well proven enclosure designs for these, of which the Pensil style MLTL are very simple builds which certainly dig about as deep in the bass as it's wise to try.
The CHR70 is a great value driver - if budget can be stretched, I can highly recommend the A7.3 - there are lots of well proven enclosure designs for these, of which the Pensil style MLTL are very simple builds which certainly dig about as deep in the bass as it's wise to try.
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About the last speakers I bought, a pair of Ciare HW 135 ( ?)....poly cone and die cast basket, about 2 years ago ( I usually mess with dumped & rotten drivers ! )
I put them in the enclosure- crossover & tweeter- and I played at full volume for half an hour some Techno. I touched the external basket ring and it was HOT !
I put them in the enclosure- crossover & tweeter- and I played at full volume for half an hour some Techno. I touched the external basket ring and it was HOT !
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