Considering New Project - AE TD18H and Large Horn, opinions wanted

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Jump to Latest
bwaslo

bwaslo

Member
Joined 2006
libinst.com
LineSource said:
T\W-TM-W = Stacking one woofer under the SEOS24 and another woofer above combines the floor-effects with the ceiling-effects to help smooth out room bass modes. This topology allows ~18" center-to-center separation between the woofer and SEOS24. A 500Hz wavelength is 27" long.
Click to expand...

Don't you have to consider the center-to-center distance between the two woofers (since those are what will be left playing below where the SEOS no longer plays)? It worked that way when I tried a W-T-W with a SEOS12, vertical basically sucked until I used different crossover points for the two woofers so only one was playing just below the waveguide's crossover. (IOW, a 2.5-way)
 
bwaslo

bwaslo

Member
Joined 2006
libinst.com
JShadzi said:
Definitely with the right plan I could make it, I did a little research, if anyone has any good info on DIY horn designs that play down to 500hz please let me know =)
Click to expand...
Look at my signature for the "SynergyCalc" spreadsheet. The waveguides made with it don't have to be synergy horns, they could be single-driver too. Design to the angle and lower control frequency you want.

I can even keep C-t-C distances w/in one wavelength even with 15" WTW.
Click to expand...

Isn't 1 wavelength going to give you a pretty narrow vertical pattern? A quarter wave is needed to be single-lobe. You might want to model your plan with Jeff Bagby's spreadsheet programs before cutting wood just to check.
 
JShadzi

JShadzi

Member
Joined 2016
Face said:
At 450hz, 1 wavelength is 30". If kept close together, the C to C distance between a SEOS24 and a 15" woofer would be approximately 14"(+/- 1"), which would be perfectly acceptable.
Click to expand...

Yes, but not between two 15" woofers in an MTM configuration, the c-t-c of those woofers would be at least 22". But this is pretty much a feature of MTM designs, and it would only be a factor from about 600hz and down, above that directivity would be point source.

For example my SFE812 used two 8" mids tightly grouped around a Seos10, they sound incredible but do benefit from sweet spot, however so long position is w/in 3 feet either side of the sweet spot they sound 80% as good and the perform substantially better in that regard than the average MTM build with a dome tweeter.

Javad
 
JShadzi

JShadzi

Member
Joined 2016
bwaslo said:
Look at my signature for the "SynergyCalc" spreadsheet. The waveguides made with it don't have to be synergy horns, they could be single-driver too. Design to the angle and lower control frequency you want.
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll check that out and play with it, I'm sure I'll have some questions for you!

Also in your opinion, will building my own horn result in anything better than something like this would provide? Goldwood GM-450PB 2" High Frequency Horn 4 Bolt

Thanks Bill!
Javad
 
bwaslo

bwaslo

Member
Joined 2006
libinst.com
JShadzi said:
...will building my own horn result in anything better than something like this would provide? Goldwood GM-450PB 2" High Frequency Horn 4 Bolt
Click to expand...

I can't really say. That horn appears to have a weird-looking throat (viewed from the mouth), but who know what the intention there is or how well it worked out. Reviews are positive (though they seem to be PA-application based). It would certainly be easier than building your own would be :p
 
H

hottattoo

Member
Joined 2006
JShadzi,

Before you make any firm decision on a speaker system, check out John Inlow's site for some mid bass horn plans etc. IMHO an 18" driver is not the best sounding option in the 350hz. to 500hz. range. For horns etc. check out DIY soundgroup.com as they have a large selection of quality products. A proper mid bass horn will easily beat any box speaker solution in efficiency, impact, and a sense of "live" feeling which many good recordings have. Good luck.
 
JShadzi

JShadzi

Member
Joined 2016
hottattoo said:
JShadzi,

Before you make any firm decision on a speaker system, check out John Inlow's site for some mid bass horn plans etc. IMHO an 18" driver is not the best sounding option in the 350hz. to 500hz. range. For horns etc. check out DIY soundgroup.com as they have a large selection of quality products. A proper mid bass horn will easily beat any box speaker solution in efficiency, impact, and a sense of "live" feeling which many good recordings have. Good luck.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the tip, checking out now, the 100hz horn looks great and I've always wanted to try out a horn loaded midbass, then I would use an 18" bass reflex for 100hz and below.
 
S

Scott L

Member
Joined 2008
Paid Member
LineSource said:
Two Proven Bass Designs.

PPSL = Push-Pull-Slot-Loaded woofers. This cabinet generate a high impact bass wave launch with a focused air pressure energy that travels several feet before diffusing. A sealed cabinet with equalization and boost can provide the best transients and most uniform bass. A ported cabinet can provide greater efficiency. In a small room, the slot is aimed at the listener in an effort to increase the perceived dynamic impact. This directivity control is a good match to horn or dipole polar pattern. At modest SPL levels, the slot's focused energy wave is linear over a wide frequency range. The slot dimensions are smaller than the 27" 500Hz wavelength(27") to avoid resonances.

W-TM-W = Stacking one woofer under the SEOS24 and another woofer above combines the floor-effects with the ceiling-effects to help smooth out room bass modes. This topology allows ~18" center-to-center separation between the woofer and SEOS24. A 500Hz wavelength is 27" long.
Click to expand...

There does not seem to be very many persons who have experienced what a ppsl bass design can do. The dynamic "punch" and absolute lack of hangover does indeed go very well with a large round horn mid range.
 

Attachments

  • 20160813_122623_resized.jpg
    20160813_122623_resized.jpg
    323.4 KB · Views: 198
P

phase_accurate

Member
Joined 2002
I haven't tried one of the BMS coaxes myself so far, although I would certainly like to do so. But i will have to finish other speakers first.
But I have swallowed quite a lot of stuff written on the web about those. Some people say that they would not work well on diffraction horns like the JBL copy. But as I said before I don't have any first-hand experience. But you might probably be better off with a SEOS.

BTW - I like this one here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R8VdGdGeIg


Regards

Charles
 
Last edited:
JShadzi

JShadzi

Member
Joined 2016
Ok, as always, designing a new speaker/project is always a roller coaster ride! Coming across the Inlow midbass horn has been eye opening, I wasn't' thinking horn loaded midbass for this project but now am so fascinated that I have to try it. So I am purchasing Inlow's plans for $25 and will likely build that, as well as putting a Radian 850 in the Goldwood horn just to test that system out and see what it sounds like. I am speaking to Erich about some Tractrix and other horns he may have, or if I'm up for it I'll consider building Inlow's paper horn as I read some pretty amazing things about it.

I have also downloaded Hornresp and have started playing with that, a little "not super user friendly/obvious to use" so I may start another thread to get some help on designing some horns with that.

Mainly I haven't experimented with a horn below 1k Hz (DE250 and Tymphany) and am fascinated by what these will sound like compared to the many other projects I've done this year.

If all goes well with the midbass and top end, then I"ll figure out what to do 100hz and below, likely a couple 18" bass reflex as I'm not sure I want to fit 20hz horns in my house...quite yet =)

And again, everything will be fully active miniDSP.

Thoughts and opinions welcome!
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Top Bottom