USRFobiwan ,
I forgot to add the text to designate "side view" or "top view" .... .. It could be looked at either way
TB46 was (is?) incredibly talented ..... I still have some of his drawings saved ... They were always so very good ...... Has nobody heard from him? I haven't seen him post in a long time ... . I know some people were worried about him .
Do we know what happened? Then abandoning what I have learned after my education and starting my music career as producer and working as roadie/rigger/light opperator and technical repair by a sound and light company in Rotterdam late 89 and early 90s. In my spare time i was building car audio crazyness with my brother in my dads car (test subject). that started my interest in enclosure designs, did a few IASCA-NL competitions back then. Although it started much earlier by modifying my dads speakers on the age of 10 to make them sound 'better'.
Great background!!
Thank you for sharing Obi! I think you must be older than I am 
Hehehe
USRFobiwan ,
You said you had a career as a music producer back in the days ....What sort of music did you work with?....... Are any of your tracks online somewhere available for listening? If so please post some links for us
You also mentioned IASCA .... I think it might have been one of their competitions that Mr Vansickle entered his 50hz tuned Super Planar 8th (with 8 inch driver) into ..
I am not very familiar with the car audio culture, but i am meeting more folks from that scene lately ...... We are seeing some interest in the Paraflex for car audio ..... We keep running into an issue with drivers though, as it turns out many of the brands are not telling the truth about their parameters .... Some of my Car Audio enthusiast friends are now buying Dayton DATS units and Smith & Larson Woofer Testers in order to test these subs (with the intention of optimizing our enclosure designs for their driver) but the truth is ugly, very ugly ..........
We are finding out that many of these drivers that look so impressive and beefy are just garbage despite their appearance ....... Some of the measured parameters lists are shamefully bad, basically unworkable in any sort of decent cabinet design .....
...... I will have to post some of these lists soon on here so we can all have a good chuckle ....
One of the car audio guys became so fed up with the issue that he just went out and bought a B&C iPAL 18 !!! He currently has it loaded into a simple vented reflex enclosure in his truck and it sounds amazing he says, he loves it, and he plans on building a Paraflex for it here sometime in the near future .....
You said you had a career as a music producer back in the days ....What sort of music did you work with?....... Are any of your tracks online somewhere available for listening? If so please post some links for us
You also mentioned IASCA .... I think it might have been one of their competitions that Mr Vansickle entered his 50hz tuned Super Planar 8th (with 8 inch driver) into ..
I am not very familiar with the car audio culture, but i am meeting more folks from that scene lately ...... We are seeing some interest in the Paraflex for car audio ..... We keep running into an issue with drivers though, as it turns out many of the brands are not telling the truth about their parameters .... Some of my Car Audio enthusiast friends are now buying Dayton DATS units and Smith & Larson Woofer Testers in order to test these subs (with the intention of optimizing our enclosure designs for their driver) but the truth is ugly, very ugly ..........
We are finding out that many of these drivers that look so impressive and beefy are just garbage despite their appearance ....... Some of the measured parameters lists are shamefully bad, basically unworkable in any sort of decent cabinet design .....
...... I will have to post some of these lists soon on here so we can all have a good chuckle ....
One of the car audio guys became so fed up with the issue that he just went out and bought a B&C iPAL 18 !!! He currently has it loaded into a simple vented reflex enclosure in his truck and it sounds amazing he says, he loves it, and he plans on building a Paraflex for it here sometime in the near future .....
MMJ, Well early dutch hardcore rave from 92 > 96 when 150/180 bpm was al the rage. Not really worth mentioning. However we hit the australian dance charts one time in 94 and a big hit in Germany with this song. Also was a great time touring through europe. It was one of our successful tracks in parts of the underground rave in EU. Hmm need to do an anniversary addition as it is almost 25 years ago in 2019.
Yeah, back in the days i did not use 'car' speakers because I did not like them. I used pro speaker drivers in the builds I did. And even now they still lie about their car audio speakers specs. go figure.
Yeah, back in the days i did not use 'car' speakers because I did not like them. I used pro speaker drivers in the builds I did. And even now they still lie about their car audio speakers specs. go figure.
USRFobiwan , You said you had a career as a music producer back in the days ....What sort of music did you work with?....... Are any of your tracks online somewhere available for listening? If so please post some links for us
I can't wait to see your list of car audio subs! I've been putting woofer testers on my Xmas list the past few years. I have a few car subs that were given to me and the manufacture didn't provide complete parameters to put into HR.
At least JBL provides all the specs for HR input.
GT5-12 | Quality 12 inch Single Voice Coil (SVC) Subwoofer
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I just found this thread on AVSForum.com.
Official JBL CS1214 thread - Replacement for Infinity 1260/1262 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Official JBL CS1214 thread - Replacement for Infinity 1260/1262 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
About the JBL GT5
Hey guys!
I am familiar with the JBL GT5 series ... JBL is one of the brands that CAN be trusted when it comes to their published parameters , at least that is the case with the GT5 series ... We have had some measured (by Sebastian Schlager in Denmark)
....
They use the same motor on both of their 10" and 12" drivers in that series ..... Same motor .... The 12" GT5 needed a stronger motor in order to work well in any of our higher order cabinets (unless made VERY large) but the GT5 12 will work alright in less demanding designs like the Karlflex , or OD-QWP ("TL") or ML-QWP (ML-TL) etc .... It is just not what i would consider high performance necessarily when compared to some of the highly competitive combinations we have been coming up with lately ... It is just relatively mediocre at best ..
The motor being used on these is much more appropriate for the 10" diameter GT-5 , and this combination is more useful in some of the more interesting designs we have come up with , especially in multiples .... .. The GT5 10s went on sale here for a while and you could pick these drivers up for less than $40 delivered to your door!
During that time i was recommending them because they were clearly a superb value at that price!
But since the price has gone back up they aren't really such a great deal anymore ... .
You can still find some new ones for sale but the price is too high my opinion ... I see the GT5 10 (svc) selling on Ebay for $88 right now ... Too much ... However, there is the GT5 10D (dvc) selling on Amazon for $60 right now, which is marginally acceptable i suppose ...... Using 4 of them together you end up with a 35hz tuned Paraflex that needs around 600 liters of internal volume and looks like it could be useful on Halfspace even ... Go a little larger to around 650 liters and we could have a 30hz tuning with output that rivals an 18" PA driver in a Paraflex .. .. 1100w rms power handling ... I would probably set it up as two separate cabinets (two drivers in each 325L cab) for the sake of portability .. For $240 total price on the drivers it is not too bad i suppose
Hey guys!
I am familiar with the JBL GT5 series ... JBL is one of the brands that CAN be trusted when it comes to their published parameters , at least that is the case with the GT5 series ... We have had some measured (by Sebastian Schlager in Denmark)
....They use the same motor on both of their 10" and 12" drivers in that series ..... Same motor .... The 12" GT5 needed a stronger motor in order to work well in any of our higher order cabinets (unless made VERY large) but the GT5 12 will work alright in less demanding designs like the Karlflex , or OD-QWP ("TL") or ML-QWP (ML-TL) etc .... It is just not what i would consider high performance necessarily when compared to some of the highly competitive combinations we have been coming up with lately ... It is just relatively mediocre at best ..
The motor being used on these is much more appropriate for the 10" diameter GT-5 , and this combination is more useful in some of the more interesting designs we have come up with , especially in multiples .... .. The GT5 10s went on sale here for a while and you could pick these drivers up for less than $40 delivered to your door!
During that time i was recommending them because they were clearly a superb value at that price! But since the price has gone back up they aren't really such a great deal anymore ... .
You can still find some new ones for sale but the price is too high my opinion ... I see the GT5 10 (svc) selling on Ebay for $88 right now ... Too much ... However, there is the GT5 10D (dvc) selling on Amazon for $60 right now, which is marginally acceptable i suppose ...... Using 4 of them together you end up with a 35hz tuned Paraflex that needs around 600 liters of internal volume and looks like it could be useful on Halfspace even ... Go a little larger to around 650 liters and we could have a 30hz tuning with output that rivals an 18" PA driver in a Paraflex .. .. 1100w rms power handling ... I would probably set it up as two separate cabinets (two drivers in each 325L cab) for the sake of portability .. For $240 total price on the drivers it is not too bad i suppose
See from post 372 ,
BL GT-X 1200 less than 70 €
X-max 12 mm Qt 0,54 Vas 77 90dB Fs 28 Hz Bxl
http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aauj_prd/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Harman/default/dw3cae66ab/pdfs/GT-X1200 Data_Sheet1.pdf
Or the similar JBL CS-1214 less than 60 €
Or the JBL GT 5 12" (also for less than 70 € now available again) with a a little bit high Qt 0,58 but X-max 14 mm Fs 29 and Bxl 15,2
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 90dB and low inductance
GT5-12 | Quality 12 inch Single Voice Coil (SVC) Subwoofer
Yes .....The B&C are better ( and they are made in Italy near Florence!) but they cost a little bit and have an high Fs
Or this economical Lanzar but I don't know Bxl and inductance
Lanzar MAX12 12" Subwoofer 4 Ohm
BL GT-X 1200 less than 70 €
X-max 12 mm Qt 0,54 Vas 77 90dB Fs 28 Hz Bxl
http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aauj_prd/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Harman/default/dw3cae66ab/pdfs/GT-X1200 Data_Sheet1.pdf
Or the similar JBL CS-1214 less than 60 €
Or the JBL GT 5 12" (also for less than 70 € now available again) with a a little bit high Qt 0,58 but X-max 14 mm Fs 29 and Bxl 15,2
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 90dB and low inductance
GT5-12 | Quality 12 inch Single Voice Coil (SVC) Subwoofer
Yes .....The B&C are better ( and they are made in Italy near Florence!) but they cost a little bit and have an high Fs
Or this economical Lanzar but I don't know Bxl and inductance
Lanzar MAX12 12" Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Yes , but there are more on stock in USA and in Europe , I'll try to send you
the link ....
Amazon.com: Buying Choices: CS1214 1000-watt, 12" car audio subwoofer (Discontinued by Manufacturer)
Probably for around 50 $......
In Europe for 60-70 € is still avalaible also in Germany on ebay.de
the link ....
Amazon.com: Buying Choices: CS1214 1000-watt, 12" car audio subwoofer (Discontinued by Manufacturer)
Probably for around 50 $......
In Europe for 60-70 € is still avalaible also in Germany on ebay.de
Some car audio brands are honest yes , but HONESTLY BAD! in most cases =P
Hey all ... Just because some of the brands like JBL and JLaudio, (probably also Alpine, CTsounds and a few others like Dayton on at least some models) are honest about their parameters it doesn't mean that the parameters are great necessarily (at least not on the low-budget options)...... I appreciate the honestly but unfortunately the parameters are still usually not appropriate for the high performance cabinets we have been discussing here .... You have to fall back to lower performance cabinet designs with most of the affordable car audio drivers ..... Occasionally we find an exception , like the GT5-10 which is just marginally acceptable , but alright , it is useful ... .
GKH Gerald, not to worry, the 15LB100 that you now own is far superior to these low-budget car audio drivers in many aspects ....
You just bought a real gem!
But as far as affordable car audio style or home theater style sub drivers are concerned the Dayton 12 HO driver (svc) looks to be a marvelous option , if the published parameters are indeed accurate .... Still waiting for someone to measure one .. I just have to be patient i suppose..
GOOD NEWS!!
Mr Vansickle in North Carolina did just buy a pair of Dayton Ultimax 8s and measured them (before break-in) and we are seeing great potential here! The BL^2/Re and Le:Re ratio is actually BETTER than what is published!!! We are so happy to see this!! How refreshing!! ... He measured using his Smith & Larson Woofer Tester 2 unit ... . We are very happy about this! ....... However, two of those UM 8s still require about 255 liters in a 33hz tuned Paraflex due to their modest amount of motor force (even with the measured parameters) .....
After break-in Mr Vansickle will measure again and we should see a decrease in Q along with a decrease in Fs , accompanied by an increase in Vas . . .... I will post those results in this discussion ....
Hey all ... Just because some of the brands like JBL and JLaudio, (probably also Alpine, CTsounds and a few others like Dayton on at least some models) are honest about their parameters it doesn't mean that the parameters are great necessarily (at least not on the low-budget options)...... I appreciate the honestly but unfortunately the parameters are still usually not appropriate for the high performance cabinets we have been discussing here .... You have to fall back to lower performance cabinet designs with most of the affordable car audio drivers ..... Occasionally we find an exception , like the GT5-10 which is just marginally acceptable , but alright , it is useful ... .
GKH Gerald, not to worry, the 15LB100 that you now own is far superior to these low-budget car audio drivers in many aspects ....
You just bought a real gem!
But as far as affordable car audio style or home theater style sub drivers are concerned the Dayton 12 HO driver (svc) looks to be a marvelous option , if the published parameters are indeed accurate .... Still waiting for someone to measure one .. I just have to be patient i suppose..
GOOD NEWS!!
Mr Vansickle in North Carolina did just buy a pair of Dayton Ultimax 8s and measured them (before break-in) and we are seeing great potential here! The BL^2/Re and Le:Re ratio is actually BETTER than what is published!!! We are so happy to see this!! How refreshing!!
... He measured using his Smith & Larson Woofer Tester 2 unit ... . We are very happy about this! ....... However, two of those UM 8s still require about 255 liters in a 33hz tuned Paraflex due to their modest amount of motor force (even with the measured parameters) .....After break-in Mr Vansickle will measure again and we should see a decrease in Q along with a decrease in Fs , accompanied by an increase in Vas . . .... I will post those results in this discussion ....
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