So we have numerous plans for superb bass cabinets.
Was just thinking it would be a good idea to collaborate on a true sub. Upper cut off being 50 Hz. Low cutoff 15-18 Hz. Max SPL level 125 DB MIN.
Achieve this within a cabinet able to be moved by a single individual and also costing on the lower end of the spectrum. Doesnt have to be as cheap to build as the SS15 but wouldn't want it to cost more the the Mini Clone.
Everything I come up with is $ and BIG.
Was just thinking it would be a good idea to collaborate on a true sub. Upper cut off being 50 Hz. Low cutoff 15-18 Hz. Max SPL level 125 DB MIN.
Achieve this within a cabinet able to be moved by a single individual and also costing on the lower end of the spectrum. Doesnt have to be as cheap to build as the SS15 but wouldn't want it to cost more the the Mini Clone.
Everything I come up with is $ and BIG.
125 dB in half space, quarter space or 1/8 space?
Big difference in $.
What do you mean by "low cutoff", -3 dB, -10 dB?
Again, big difference in size and $.
A single individual can move anything with the right machinery, what size and weight are you looking for?
Is the DTS 10 too big, heavy, expensive and not enough output for your taste ?
And it will be. This is beyond the capability of any one box, period. To put it in perspective, getting 26 Hz at 135 dB without any help from a corner requires six $600 labhorns at 30 cubic feet each. A single 18 Hz box will be bigger, and you'd need a stack of them. It might even be to the point where each box may require field assembly. We're talking 20 foot path length, and mouth about 4x4 feet (for 1/8-space equivalent). The driver(s) would need to be able to push a 25-pound weight directly on the cone without failure. It will burn out the main deflector dish, but it will be one he!! of a bang.
When do we start?
I don't understand why.
125dB would imply PA use, and there's nothing out there music wise that would require such an extreme specification - organ music with 16Hz content is rare. When such acoustic power has the capability to structurally upset the building around the organ, I can't see why 125dB @18Hz would be useful in any way, unless you just wanted to be able to re-arrange your home.
Chris
125dB would imply PA use, and there's nothing out there music wise that would require such an extreme specification - organ music with 16Hz content is rare. When such acoustic power has the capability to structurally upset the building around the organ, I can't see why 125dB @18Hz would be useful in any way, unless you just wanted to be able to re-arrange your home.
Chris
D&B has notes strong to 28hz, no lower than that have I actually seen rta for....
Is flat to 28 what you are after? That's a whole other animal vs 15-18.
I think a dual titanic 10 would fit the 28hz goal. (attached is a hornresp of a single.... just double it up)
As a double it'd be close in size to a ss15.
Is flat to 28 what you are after? That's a whole other animal vs 15-18.
I think a dual titanic 10 would fit the 28hz goal. (attached is a hornresp of a single.... just double it up)
As a double it'd be close in size to a ss15.
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This is not intended as a flame or any sort of attack, but someone whose avatar is a copper phase plugged (is it Seas or Fostex or??) driver will probably never understand a DJ's obsession with BASS.
If you build an 18 Hz capable system, you'll find 18 hz to put through it. AC/DC played through a stack of Basstech 7's (and a dBx 120A) was the single event that started me on the path to the dark side. And if you can do 18 Hz even semi-cleanly, you put 25 or 40 into it at insane levels and there's not even one hint of stress.
Wooden phase plugs, Fostex FE126E
I'm running a couple of tapped horns in my room (17 year old's bedroom system), which go down to ~25Hz. I can see the need for bass: there's a certain satisfaction of hearing stuff rattle, and feeling the floor beneath you move as you turn it up. I play bass guitar and enjoy rattling stuff in my room, so I do get it.
Chris
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Apologies for not stating this will be for PA work
So 2 Pi.
So far the only thing to come close is 2 21" TH's.
Either the dual TH221 or 2 600 Lt RCF 21" TH's. Both going to cost some $1K.
I assumed a BP would be the ideal enclosure type due to such a narrow band width wanted. And to keep the physical size down (40-50 Hz and below)
chris661 - hard to believe you said that and your British...
You obviously don't go out much or listen to modern music. Even pop music now goes sub sonic.
Here is a pic from your side of the pond:
Those are Psycho's on the bottom.
||| Void Acoustics ||| Changing the way you look at music ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bass is an addiction.
Once you become experienced you want it.
JBell - nice but not what I was thinking about.
Amps - well not to concerned with that. becoming cheaper and cheaper.
Size... Well a single person cant really move a Lab Sub. Plus you really need 6 of them.
Might as well build the 21" TH's. So if you cant move it by yourself without mechanical assistance then no.
So 2 Pi.
So far the only thing to come close is 2 21" TH's.
Either the dual TH221 or 2 600 Lt RCF 21" TH's. Both going to cost some $1K.
I assumed a BP would be the ideal enclosure type due to such a narrow band width wanted. And to keep the physical size down (40-50 Hz and below)
chris661 - hard to believe you said that and your British...
You obviously don't go out much or listen to modern music. Even pop music now goes sub sonic.
Here is a pic from your side of the pond:
Those are Psycho's on the bottom.
||| Void Acoustics ||| Changing the way you look at music ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bass is an addiction.
Once you become experienced you want it.
JBell - nice but not what I was thinking about.
Amps - well not to concerned with that. becoming cheaper and cheaper.
Size... Well a single person cant really move a Lab Sub. Plus you really need 6 of them.
Might as well build the 21" TH's. So if you cant move it by yourself without mechanical assistance then no.
Hi FlipC,
How about a Dual TH w/ JBL GTO1214s, see attachment. I get about 527 liter, a -3dB point of 20Hz, and an average around 121dB for one box, multiples obviously higher.
As to the 221s: which speakers, how much volume and at which price point? They are not going to be inexpensive, are they?
Regards,
How about a Dual TH w/ JBL GTO1214s, see attachment. I get about 527 liter, a -3dB point of 20Hz, and an average around 121dB for one box, multiples obviously higher.
As to the 221s: which speakers, how much volume and at which price point? They are not going to be inexpensive, are they?
Regards,
I love low bass too, but can’t afford the size, weight and cost required for an octave extension below 40 Hz.
Unfortunately, cabinets of the same size will suffer about a huge loss (9 dB or more) in efficiency for each octave lower they go, so even though 125 dB from a relatively small box can happen at 40 Hz, at 20 Hz it won’t.
Josh Ricci has tested some very good low frequency cabinets close to the frequency response you propose.
Bass reflex will be required to get deep LF response in the small size and weight you desire.
Data-Bass
You can see the loss of effeciency in the comparison of a 2x Lab12 ported box of 36Fb and 19 Fb, 22.5 x 22.5 x 26.5 finished exterior dimensions, about 1/4 the size of a Lab sub.
It is easily transported by one person, I move two at a time up my trailer ramp.
On an outdoor side by side stage gig, I found out that four of the Fb 36 2 x Lab12 powered by a pair of Crest CA-9 can put out more 40 Hz than eight Meyers 650P dual 18" cabinets.
The 36 Fb box will do over 125 dB at 40 Hz, while the 19 Fb box only can do 112 dB at 20 Hz, and the 40 Hz response has lost 3 dB compared to the 36 Fb box. That loss can’t be recovered with more power, the 19Fb box is at full excursion, while the 36 Fb box still has almost 3 dB of headroom left before running out of excursion.
Using Eminence Lab 12”, one of the best bang for the buck LF speakers that work well in a small box, would require four times the amps, speakers and space to get the 20 Hz output up to the 40 Hz level of 125 dB.
For most, Hoffman's Iron Law extracts too much of a penalty to pursue response below 35 Hz for PA use.
If you are willing to make the investment for the bottom octave, go for it.
Art
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Hi Art,
Your data makes the point for watching for power compression, and that seems to be the claim to fame for the tapped horn. I'm not so clear as to what size FlipC wants (except: smaller is better). I remember from the collaborative thread that Danley used the MTX T9515 in the Matterhorn, and Cowan had a suggestion for a single one:
Regards,
Your data makes the point for watching for power compression, and that seems to be the claim to fame for the tapped horn. I'm not so clear as to what size FlipC wants (except: smaller is better
). I remember from the collaborative thread that Danley used the MTX T9515 in the Matterhorn, and Cowan had a suggestion for a single one:Regards,
Hi Art,
Your data makes the point for watching for power compression, and that seems to be the claim to fame for the tapped horn. I'm not so clear as to what size FlipC wants (except: smaller is better
Regards,
Power compression will affect a TH just as it will a BR, though a TH may be more efficient.
My testing has shown for a given size, using the same speakers, a bit more LF can be squeezed out of a given space using BR than TH, though it takes more power and speakers to do it.
Here's a recipe i just came up with using 4 Titanic 15"
Box: 50ft^3 tuning freq. 18.37hz
Vents: 4 X10" X 42.64" long
Power: 2315.3W
Highpass: BW 4th order, fc:16hz Q=1
Box dimensions: 48"X48"X54.8" panel thickness 1.5"
Bake at 275 for 6hrs... just kidding
results should be 125.185db at 17.77hz, flat to 20hz at 128db
would it work in reality, who knows....
Box: 50ft^3 tuning freq. 18.37hz
Vents: 4 X10" X 42.64" long
Power: 2315.3W
Highpass: BW 4th order, fc:16hz Q=1
Box dimensions: 48"X48"X54.8" panel thickness 1.5"
Bake at 275 for 6hrs... just kidding
results should be 125.185db at 17.77hz, flat to 20hz at 128db
would it work in reality, who knows....
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Here's a recipe i just came up with using 4 Titanic 15"
Box: 50ft^3 tuning freq. 18.37hz
Vents: 4 X10" X 42.64" long
Power: 2315.3W
Highpass: BW 4th order, fc:16hz Q=1
Box dimensions: 48"X48"X54.8" panel thickness 1.5"
Bake at 275 for 6hrs... just kidding
results should be 125.185db at 17.77hz, flat to 20hz at 128db
would it work in reality, who knows....
That sounds about right.
Using 8 Lab 12s would achieve about 3 dB less level with 3200 watts using half the space.
I like the idea of a sub harmonic PA sub
If it can hit 18 Hz at 125 dB, then THX stuff can be run without issues. Normally you won't need that but the less power it consumes, the less distortion it produces. Throw in pipe organs, drum and bass stuff and a teenager with an iPod with bass tracks on it--I can see the use in my house. Actually, it would be used in the garage to prevent breaking windows and tearing up the house.
Bass is like torque, you don't need a super charged big block but it is a lot of fun to slam the loud pedal on occasion.
No matter what happens, Lowe's wins!
If it can hit 18 Hz at 125 dB, then THX stuff can be run without issues. Normally you won't need that but the less power it consumes, the less distortion it produces. Throw in pipe organs, drum and bass stuff and a teenager with an iPod with bass tracks on it--I can see the use in my house. Actually, it would be used in the garage to prevent breaking windows and tearing up the house.
Bass is like torque, you don't need a super charged big block but it is a lot of fun to slam the loud pedal on occasion.
No matter what happens, Lowe's wins!
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