WELL FOR STARTERS
I don't see how varying the input voltage to the DCX will do anything but degrade SQ.. you are losing bits when the as the input voltage drops.
I mean this unit needs 7 VRMS (19 dbu) to perform its best
plus the DCX requires balanced inputs( no prob) I use Zapco amps.
I have found a few variable output kits but they are expensive and most are single ended and have separate controls or remotes..
The diy forums have turned up nothing car friendly yet!
I realize the potential but there are alot of pitfil to get it ripe for car use.
I want to have this thing figured out before I drop the $150 bucks for that 12v conversion kit.
I'm considering using a analog Rane unit!
I don't see how varying the input voltage to the DCX will do anything but degrade SQ.. you are losing bits when the as the input voltage drops.
I mean this unit needs 7 VRMS (19 dbu) to perform its best
plus the DCX requires balanced inputs( no prob) I use Zapco amps.
I have found a few variable output kits but they are expensive and most are single ended and have separate controls or remotes..
The diy forums have turned up nothing car friendly yet!
I realize the potential but there are alot of pitfil to get it ripe for car use.
I want to have this thing figured out before I drop the $150 bucks for that 12v conversion kit.
I'm considering using a analog Rane unit!
IMSTOOPID said:
No, it really doesn't. I don't believe anything less than full input signal (short of clipping) could possibly contaminate the signal considering that the dynamic range of any signal would also have to be affected. This follows similar reasoning that says CD players can't reproduce 20kHz accurately because of the 44.1kHz sampling rate using only two samples per cycle!
That's also incorrect. It will accept unbalanced inputs with no trouble due to the servo-action of the preamps in the DCX.
That is your opinion, but without ever trying it with an open mind I think you're doing yourself a great disservice.
Yeah, I considered that too - and used to build power supplies for them "back in the day". But the DCX just blew me away with its quality which is why I first developed the power supply for my personal use.
It's actually $139 with free shipping. I don't force it on anyone, but it IS the only drop-in, plug-and-play replacement for the AC Mains supply.
I AM USING ONE IN MY home SYSTME NOW..
WITH 30k WORTH OF GEAR
STOCK THE DCX SUCKS!!! I have jans kit installed with the clock mods..
It is now acceptable. Not as good or transparent as a PASS or Bryston.. but accpetable..
No, it really doesn't. I don't believe anything less than full input signal (short of clipping) could possibly contaminate the signal considering that the dynamic range of any signal would also have to be affected. This follows similar reasoning that says CD players can't reproduce 20kHz accurately because of the 44.1kHz sampling rate using only two samples per cycle!
WRONG..http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-26391.html
you have to give it the 8 v or you lose s/n ratio and resolution
I pnly commented if you wna the dcx to sound good yo have to trash the analog sections..
I am using the analog input sections so I got to feed it a good signal..not much of a problem.. I can get the drive voltage..
But I need a non remote or way to wire a :volume knob into the DCX.
I'm not putting my fully modded unit in..
I'll do another one but I cannot find any good analog output kits..
WITH 30k WORTH OF GEAR
STOCK THE DCX SUCKS!!! I have jans kit installed with the clock mods..
It is now acceptable. Not as good or transparent as a PASS or Bryston.. but accpetable..
No, it really doesn't. I don't believe anything less than full input signal (short of clipping) could possibly contaminate the signal considering that the dynamic range of any signal would also have to be affected. This follows similar reasoning that says CD players can't reproduce 20kHz accurately because of the 44.1kHz sampling rate using only two samples per cycle!
WRONG..http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-26391.html
you have to give it the 8 v or you lose s/n ratio and resolution
I pnly commented if you wna the dcx to sound good yo have to trash the analog sections..
I am using the analog input sections so I got to feed it a good signal..not much of a problem.. I can get the drive voltage..
But I need a non remote or way to wire a :volume knob into the DCX.
I'm not putting my fully modded unit in..
I'll do another one but I cannot find any good analog output kits..
I've never had a car with dsp. But if I move to the center of the car it does not sound much different. People tell me rear fill does not sound good but they are same distance as fronts...do those people turn off the surround on their home theater too? I guess you do it the way you want. Not saying better equipment is not better, just that like with most things a lot of extra money for the best buys you very little improvement from a quality well sorted system.
jol50 said:
It's all about directional cues. Your brain is adept at sorting out directionality using just your two ears. Surround systems are delayed, processed and delivered as pertinent information related to the audible cues on the soundtrack. Rear "fill" is typically a set of speakers that pulls the image backwards because time delays are not introduced - that is why it sounds bad.
The difference between left and right cues are on the order of 3.6mS (about 4 feet) - and you CAN hear it. It comes in the form of a smeared or wandering image. The subwoofer, typically set in the rear of the vehicle can be planted "up front" by delaying the entire system with respect to it. Tweeters can also be delayed (or advanced...think inside-out - like the subwoofer). Of course, if you've never experienced it, you wouldn't think it made a difference. A properly set up, transient-perfect system is simply amazing and predictable in a small automotive environment.
I encourage all that are serious about SQ to try it because you will not want to go back!
IMSTOOPID said:
OK OK...no harm, no foul, eh? I have often considered putting together a supply for the RANE unit, but I have been unable to locate one that I can get into to measure currents/voltages for a 12V power supply. Inverters are baaaad (as you probably know) because they reference their Neutral line to chassis ground. My supply is completely isolated from ground (save a capacitive coupler on the secondary side for lowered EMI). I have sold dozens of the DSPower with zero complaints of noise or intereference with AM/FM radio or other devices.
In the same vein, I have thought at length about purchasing the DSP/controller portion from Behringer (if it is possible) and building the entire unit into a small chassis with a remote LCD panel. This unit would have expertly designed preamp and output stages for a truly remarkable DSP powerhouse. But, as for now, it's merely a dream.
"I have never heard good imaging and thus I don't know what it is or how it feels. I will be glad to be stuck that way till the end of my days because I feel I already know enough about the world and I'm too lazy to experiment with new (to me) stuff."
Fortunately not everybody behaves that way.
Fortunately not everybody behaves that way.
EnvisionAudio said:
I agree, I have a HT and have played with the delay on that. So happens in my current car the rears are far below my head and same distance as front, but I don't agree on delay as how I like my rear fill to work though it may work better yet. I actually like different drivers (that compliment, not duplicate fronts?) back there that have a different response that spreads parts of the sound. If it works right to me it sounds more like headphones but the stage still sounds forward mostly. A lot of people like it all forward, but I like headphones that obviously I don't want to use in a car. The l/r on my small car must be about 1-2'.
On the other hand if it sounds pretty good then I don't complain, I have a hard time justifying too much investment in my car audio as I have too many other toys to play with and my drive time is limited. I certainly would not complain if I had a $600 or > HU with dsp in my car
not at all don't get me wrong there. Just that I have done this setup for many years and when I get it right it works great for me. Just have other pressing issues to attend.
jol50 said:
On the other hand if it sounds pretty good then I don't complain, I have a hard time justifying too much investment in my car audio as I have too many other toys to play with and my drive time is limited. I certainly would not complain if I had a $600 or > HU with dsp in my car
If it weren't for my business, I probably would not have put as much effort into the car system. But, if truth be known, I have spent less than $600 on the entire system, buying three broken Soundstream amplifiers for $200, a 15 year old used "dead head" Alpine headunit (doesn't play CD-Rs...heh); the Behringer was the most expensive part. My subwoofers are 6.5" Tangband and the door speakers are Dayton Reference 7". Mids and highs are Tangband titanium 4" (no tweeters!). You can do it on a budget so long as you know where the money is best spent.
I'm a big fan of AudioControl crossovers. They do have limited functionality compared to most of the competition, but what they do they do well. Can't make any claims about transparency, considering the noise floor in my car.
I have way too much AudioControl stuff right now. I have an EQL, 3xs and two 2xs crossovers. Don't know if this is up to the Nakimichi level in quality, but I like pictures of guts, so here they are
AudioControl 2xs
18db/octave butterworth
AudioControl 3xs
24db/octave linkwitz-riley
Dan
I have way too much AudioControl stuff right now. I have an EQL, 3xs and two 2xs crossovers. Don't know if this is up to the Nakimichi level in quality, but I like pictures of guts, so here they are
AudioControl 2xs
18db/octave butterworth
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
AudioControl 3xs
24db/octave linkwitz-riley
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Dan
Oh yes, sounds like a nice setup too. I have looked at the small Fostex for mid/highs as I really want 8s in my doors...but this car is just too small I can't do that kind of mods to it. I have about <$140 into my 4 12s off the net used, 5ch amp I don't like was 160 factory refurb, HU was a free alpine out of anther car I had that I bought a new $100 face for years back. I have well under 200 into used EQ/front comps/new 5ga wire kit/spk wire/coax rears/etc. This spring I'll change most drivers and amp out for cheaper better stuff I have collected here. Still refining details and have 5 different brands of amps to try for some reason. Still may run cheap subs just to try them at <$100 for 4 12s. Don't want to spend and don't like the idea of limited access while driving, but it would be nice to have processing in the HU and get rid of crossovers if I were to buy something nice for it. My Alpine plays cdrs but can take a while to find tracks or each track.EnvisionAudio said:
rane info
I have a AC23B..
i can tell you the wallwart that come with it is.,.
120VAC 25W
18VCT .75A
made in CHINA!!
may want to put some more juice to it so you can change the TL072's and the 33078 or 2059D's out to something good!
These units sound pretty good with some good 0p amps and some tweaking!
I have a AC23B..
i can tell you the wallwart that come with it is.,.
120VAC 25W
18VCT .75A
made in CHINA!!
may want to put some more juice to it so you can change the TL072's and the 33078 or 2059D's out to something good!
These units sound pretty good with some good 0p amps and some tweaking!
Re: rane info
Okayfine. AC23 is an analog crossover. No delay (unless you count the CD compensation) and no EQ. I was thinking of a RANE DSP - and I'd need the internal voltages generated by the power supply. These units can be used with a standard power inverter since they have transformer isolation.
IMSTOOPID said:
Okayfine. AC23 is an analog crossover. No delay (unless you count the CD compensation) and no EQ. I was thinking of a RANE DSP - and I'd need the internal voltages generated by the power supply. These units can be used with a standard power inverter since they have transformer isolation.
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