Who is fighting.
I won't need to fight,
to prove I'm right,
I don't need to be forgiven.
I have built isolation transformers from back to back to back (primary-secondaries connected-primary) surplus transformers that didn't cost that much. I have experimented with balanced power in this manner also. I think I will let Steve Eddy explain AC polarity (if he ever calms down) I just don't want to ruffle anyone else's feathers anymore. I want everyone to love and respect me.
The exodus is here,
the happy ones are near,
let's get together, before we get much older.
I won't need to fight,
to prove I'm right,
I don't need to be forgiven.
I have built isolation transformers from back to back to back (primary-secondaries connected-primary) surplus transformers that didn't cost that much. I have experimented with balanced power in this manner also. I think I will let Steve Eddy explain AC polarity (if he ever calms down) I just don't want to ruffle anyone else's feathers anymore. I want everyone to love and respect me.
The exodus is here,
the happy ones are near,
let's get together, before we get much older.
One book on grounding that I have found worthwhile and not particularly expensive is Hugh W. Denny's "Grounding for the control of EMI".
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-9531966-4509626?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
jonathan carr
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-9531966-4509626?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
jonathan carr
??? Harmonic content and phase of what?
If this is real, why doesn't it show up in my (admittedly conventional) measurements?
What kind of stuff in a house has large enough current and half-wave rectification to cause a significant effect? Other than torchiere lights, which are so noisy they're banned from the area of my living room?
Amplifier with ground isolated power supply
A number of audio companies have filed and received patents on grounding techniques as applied to audio amplifiers. One example is US Patent 4,517,528, which has been used in various commercial amplifiers by Sansui.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...,517,528.WKU.&OS=PN/4,517,528&RS=PN/4,517,528
Hope that someone finds this information useful.
jonathan carr
A number of audio companies have filed and received patents on grounding techniques as applied to audio amplifiers. One example is US Patent 4,517,528, which has been used in various commercial amplifiers by Sansui.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...,517,528.WKU.&OS=PN/4,517,528&RS=PN/4,517,528
Hope that someone finds this information useful.
jonathan carr
WAKE UP PLEASE....
Hi,
You'd be surprised at the amount of "obsolete" gear I shifted to industrial customers...
Example: Storck Pumps requiring Thyrathrons.
Example: Siemens Atea requiring AZ1 rectifiers to measure coils.
Example: L'Aerospatiale France requiring octal sockets for signal requirements on aerospace rockets...
Need I go on?
You wouldn't believe the "obsolete" components used in research projects...
Hi,
You'd be surprised at the amount of "obsolete" gear I shifted to industrial customers...
Example: Storck Pumps requiring Thyrathrons.
Example: Siemens Atea requiring AZ1 rectifiers to measure coils.
Example: L'Aerospatiale France requiring octal sockets for signal requirements on aerospace rockets...
Need I go on?
You wouldn't believe the "obsolete" components used in research projects...
Re: Uh Oh
"They" what? You mean balanced isolation transformers? If so, then "they" are as balanced as the manufacturer cares to make them. I've no idea precisely how the transformers offered by the likes of Equi=Tech are actually constructed, but it's hardly a problem to produce balanced symmetrical secondaries.
What's been the typical impedance imbalance you've found on balanced isolation transformers?
That's a relative polarity issue. Not an imbalanced impedance issue.
You can't. I was referring back to what you had said previously. About an impedance imbalance between neutral and ground with respect to AC ground. To wit:
<i>I believe there is often still an impedance mismatch from nuetral to ground with respect to AC ground depending transformer design and chassis safety ground strategies.</i></b>
Neutral. Ground. AC ground. That's lemme see... One... Two... Three nodes by my count.
Whatever it was you were talking about, what you actually SAID was an impedance imbalance from neutral to ground with respect to AC ground, with no mention whatsoever about line.
If you expect people to know what you're talking about, it helps if your words accurately reflect what it is you're talking about. Otherwise, expect there to be confusion.
Sure. They're different. Which is why when it's necessary I make sure to distinguish which I'm speaking of.
Whether they have different voltages with respect to each other depends on what your point of reference is and how the ground system is wired up.
Great. So where was it that you went into the subject with some detail? All I saw was your pointing to the reference and talking about some job you had. If you went into the subject with some detail, please point it out so I can go back and read it.
Yes. Which is why didn't simply say "leakage current" but went on to explain how it comes about by way of such things as capacitive coupling between hot and safety ground.
Same here.
Sure. But basically all you did was tell me I was full of crap, pointed to some pdf file as if to prove it, even though it didn't contradict a single thing I'd said, and then waxed nostalgic about your old job.
Great.
And where exactly did I claim to know it all?
Look, Fred, throughout this entire discussion you've done little more than accuse me of bluffing and claiming that I'm full of crap without once substantiating any of it.
That doesn't mean I know it all. It just means that you apparently don't know enough to make a reasoned, intelligent argument as to exactly why I'm supposed to be wrong. And if you can't do that, then how can you really know if I'm wrong?
I don't know it all. I've never claimed to know it all. And when I've been in error, I've always owned up to it and thanked the person who pointed out my error. I expect everything I say to be as open to criticism as anything anyone else says. And I don't expect anyone to give anything I say any particular credibility simply because I said them.
No, the problem is that for some reason you believe that's the case.
The other problem is that you're quick to say someone is full of crap, but often fall tragically short of actually DEMONSTRATING your claim to be the case.
If anyone here is thinking they're the expert it's you. You say people are full of crap and instead of demonstrating that to be the case, you simply expect people to take your word for it.
If I'm full of crap, then MAKE YOUR CASE. If you can't make your case, then dispense with the empty claims and leave it up to someone who CAN make the case.
When I was a kid in school, I never gave up my lunch money just because some punk walked up to me and said "Give me your lunch money or I'll kick your ***." If they wanted my lunch money, they had to kick my *** to get it (and I did lose it a couple of times).
So, Fred, either kick my *** or go find someone else to bully.
se
Fred Dieckmann said:
"They" what? You mean balanced isolation transformers? If so, then "they" are as balanced as the manufacturer cares to make them. I've no idea precisely how the transformers offered by the likes of Equi=Tech are actually constructed, but it's hardly a problem to produce balanced symmetrical secondaries.
What's been the typical impedance imbalance you've found on balanced isolation transformers?
That's a relative polarity issue. Not an imbalanced impedance issue.
You can't. I was referring back to what you had said previously. About an impedance imbalance between neutral and ground with respect to AC ground. To wit:
<i>I believe there is often still an impedance mismatch from nuetral to ground with respect to AC ground depending transformer design and chassis safety ground strategies.</i></b>
Neutral. Ground. AC ground. That's lemme see... One... Two... Three nodes by my count.
Whatever it was you were talking about, what you actually SAID was an impedance imbalance from neutral to ground with respect to AC ground, with no mention whatsoever about line.
If you expect people to know what you're talking about, it helps if your words accurately reflect what it is you're talking about. Otherwise, expect there to be confusion.
Sure. They're different. Which is why when it's necessary I make sure to distinguish which I'm speaking of.
Whether they have different voltages with respect to each other depends on what your point of reference is and how the ground system is wired up.
Great. So where was it that you went into the subject with some detail? All I saw was your pointing to the reference and talking about some job you had. If you went into the subject with some detail, please point it out so I can go back and read it.
Yes. Which is why didn't simply say "leakage current" but went on to explain how it comes about by way of such things as capacitive coupling between hot and safety ground.
Same here.
Sure. But basically all you did was tell me I was full of crap, pointed to some pdf file as if to prove it, even though it didn't contradict a single thing I'd said, and then waxed nostalgic about your old job.
Great.
And where exactly did I claim to know it all?
Look, Fred, throughout this entire discussion you've done little more than accuse me of bluffing and claiming that I'm full of crap without once substantiating any of it.
That doesn't mean I know it all. It just means that you apparently don't know enough to make a reasoned, intelligent argument as to exactly why I'm supposed to be wrong. And if you can't do that, then how can you really know if I'm wrong?
I don't know it all. I've never claimed to know it all. And when I've been in error, I've always owned up to it and thanked the person who pointed out my error. I expect everything I say to be as open to criticism as anything anyone else says. And I don't expect anyone to give anything I say any particular credibility simply because I said them.
No, the problem is that for some reason you believe that's the case.
The other problem is that you're quick to say someone is full of crap, but often fall tragically short of actually DEMONSTRATING your claim to be the case.
If anyone here is thinking they're the expert it's you. You say people are full of crap and instead of demonstrating that to be the case, you simply expect people to take your word for it.
If I'm full of crap, then MAKE YOUR CASE. If you can't make your case, then dispense with the empty claims and leave it up to someone who CAN make the case.
When I was a kid in school, I never gave up my lunch money just because some punk walked up to me and said "Give me your lunch money or I'll kick your ***." If they wanted my lunch money, they had to kick my *** to get it (and I did lose it a couple of times).
So, Fred, either kick my *** or go find someone else to bully.
se
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