On the phone now so excuse typos.
The initial £600 AUD she gave me was for the whole project, so you can see what I am going to say next.
I currently use two systems with minidsps.. An all OB rig and a bitsa shed system. I can't recommend them highly enough, but this just isn't that type of project.
Theres two things to remember here to steer this conversation. 1 - Anything beyond putting the red wire in the red thingy on the box thingy is going to stress her out and she will stop using them. 2 - What! Theres two wires to the box thingy... O my god!
My choice of A7.3 and the SB34 is almost over budget. Even the A10 or Dual 8's per side will sink this boat. With a bit of luck there may be an opportunity in the future to try some other ideas for other people.
She has her TV on an old dresser in the lounge but my initial drawing was more about trying to get a slimish cab with 110 liter volume. I will have to calc the baffle step and xo before I can lock in the real dimensions. Something near 50 cm deep will be better and I may have to look at the 10" SB driver and drop the cab volume.
Did I mention she loves bass?!
Claire won't have any trouble at all, she has you to connect those little red thingies! LOL
BTW the I can't, is a con job. They can. It's funny to hear the wife come home from work with stories from the office. She originally was an I CAN'T member. Nowadays when told she can't pick this up or do a little computer troubleshooting can and does to everyone's amazement. Her peers think she is nuts for cooking from scratch. Then want what she's having because it's better than their favorite box/can/restaurant. When we met she would exclaim right out that she burns water and that was true! I could and showed her the way with my Just Do It attitude. Nothing but knowledge and tools get in the way, clear that path and you are doing it. Just passing the baton...
P.S. came home one day with her soldering some wires from a broken connector. Up til this time had only watched me do this kind of stuff. Talk about shock and awe!
Dean - while speaker level passive XO certainly has some aesthetic merits ( hidden in the enclosure, only one set of speaker wires), the quantity and values required for 2nd order function at the frequency range under consideration ( 200 or lower) can get spendy, quick - and the A7.3 is revealing enough to not forgive the signature that EL caps would most likely impart.
While a total budget of $600 is quite reasonable, particularly if your labor is subject to the "friends and family discount" (but be careful about broadcasting that), it'd be easy to chew up at least $100 of that for XO components.
I'm not really of the "all passive XO's are evil" mindset, but they can be tricky to get right, and as noted above, spendy. If there's any way that an active configuration could be implemented, using any of the wide range of compact and very affordable digital amps, I think the final results would be well worth the effort.
but you probably knew all that
While a total budget of $600 is quite reasonable, particularly if your labor is subject to the "friends and family discount" (but be careful about broadcasting that
), it'd be easy to chew up at least $100 of that for XO components. I'm not really of the "all passive XO's are evil" mindset, but they can be tricky to get right, and as noted above, spendy. If there's any way that an active configuration could be implemented, using any of the wide range of compact and very affordable digital amps, I think the final results would be well worth the effort.
but you probably knew all that
A7.3 +woofer +passive XO is doable for sure. I would suggest a 1st order series,it seems to give a lot of room for values that might not be optimum due to their self-adjusting virtues. Even thou the values are large you can get away reasonablly... i got a whole bunch of poly 10uF caps for under $1 each. They are still available at Madisound. A cored inductor can be had for a reasonable amount -- it might saturate at high levels, but the lower DCR is a bonus for the A7.
Going to the 10" may not give you sufficient sensitivity, but if you can get 4 ohm, that might be enuff, another bonus with 4 ohm would that the choke comes in at half as big. A 10" should allow a higher XO.
As to XO point, you are juggling a number of factors including bafflestep (fixed by cabinet width), how good the woofers off axis is (since it is on the side, smaller driver typically reaches higher), power/levels (higher XO usually means you can play louder), parts cost (higher XO means smaller values), fidelity (lower XO means that that wonderful A7.3 is covering more of the lower midrange), impedance issues (XOing too low means you have to worry more about the driver resonant peaks).
With the currently discussed system, i am going to suggest 250-350 Hz. With a nominal 4 ohm woofer, one could start with 30uF + 3 mH and tweak values upward if needed for adjustment or to lower the XO if the woofer does not have sufficient lateral output.
dave
Going to the 10" may not give you sufficient sensitivity, but if you can get 4 ohm, that might be enuff, another bonus with 4 ohm would that the choke comes in at half as big. A 10" should allow a higher XO.
As to XO point, you are juggling a number of factors including bafflestep (fixed by cabinet width), how good the woofers off axis is (since it is on the side, smaller driver typically reaches higher), power/levels (higher XO usually means you can play louder), parts cost (higher XO means smaller values), fidelity (lower XO means that that wonderful A7.3 is covering more of the lower midrange), impedance issues (XOing too low means you have to worry more about the driver resonant peaks).
With the currently discussed system, i am going to suggest 250-350 Hz. With a nominal 4 ohm woofer, one could start with 30uF + 3 mH and tweak values upward if needed for adjustment or to lower the XO if the woofer does not have sufficient lateral output.
dave
I guess it depends on what values in a speaker you hold dear. Chris & I rarely crank the dial, appreciate a speaker with 3D image/soundstage capability, this comes from great DDR which brings other bonuses in terms of those little things that tell you about the voice/instrument. You give up ease at higher volumes and impact in the bottom. The A7 FAST we are currently finishing up, has the assets of the A7, and with the woofers doing the heavy lifting, we haven't run into the downsides.
dave
murphy - if you've been paying close attention lately, you'd probably notice that chrisb is quite enamoured of the new 10P as well. While there are still some aspects at which the 7.3 excels, particularly when spared the heavy lifting as Dave mentions, my personal choice of the current paper drivers by Mark would be the 10 - until I hear the 8P perhaps ?
The 12 is just not my cuppa tea, but that has a lot to do with the required enclosure volume to squeeze its potential - the small BR or "Ken" styles just don't approach what the Pensil / SuperPensil, or any competent full sized MLTL can do with this driver.
Of course, it's a matter of horses for courses, and as also mentioned above, I rarely approach the limits of 7's comfort zone in my 5.1 set up - others might find those levels inadequate for the full immersion shiatsu massage listening experience, which is fine too - "vivre et laisser vivre"
The 12 is just not my cuppa tea, but that has a lot to do with the required enclosure volume to squeeze its potential - the small BR or "Ken" styles just don't approach what the Pensil / SuperPensil, or any competent full sized MLTL can do with this driver.
Of course, it's a matter of horses for courses, and as also mentioned above, I rarely approach the limits of 7's comfort zone in my 5.1 set up - others might find those levels inadequate for the full immersion shiatsu massage listening experience, which is fine too - "vivre et laisser vivre"
its surprises me. Mr pass has heard all of the alpairs with a high pass at 100hz, so the bass was not an issue, and he prefered the a12p, same with Bob crines I think. the other user I forgot the name but he used to have the a7 in a open baffle crossed at 200hz and then got the a12p and said he much prefered the a12p.murphy - if you've been paying close attention lately, you'd probably notice that chrisb is quite enamoured of the new 10P as well. While there are still some aspects at which the 7.3 excels, particularly when spared the heavy lifting as Dave mentions, my personal choice of the current paper drivers by Mark would be the 10 - until I hear the 8P perhaps ?
The 12 is just not my cuppa tea, but that has a lot to do with the required enclosure volume to squeeze its potential - the small BR or "Ken" styles just don't approach what the Pensil / SuperPensil, or any competent full sized MLTL can do with this driver.
Of course, it's a matter of horses for courses, and as also mentioned above, I rarely approach the limits of 7's comfort zone in my 5.1 set up - others might find those levels inadequate for the full immersion shiatsu massage listening experience, which is fine too - "vivre et laisser vivre"
A bigger fullrange will be more dynamic, go lower, have more weight in the midrange, but will be less detail in the highs, so I guess you prefer the a7.3 highs?
I personally use the a12p with a high pass at 60hz and use a subwoofer all with minidsp in my living room. I now acheive 29hz flat, really happy. Without a sub, Idefinitely missed something with the BR as it rolls off from 60hz, but with a sub, the sound is fullrange and honestly beautiful, dynamic, not the last of details retreival, but really musical sound. I might add supertweeter eventually. Is there anyone tried adding a supertweeter to the a12p?
what do you prefer from the A7.3?
All the A10s can go lower than the A12.2p, and the A7.3 comes pretty close. The A10.2 was the Mark Audio bass king (in terms of extension), closely followed by the EL70.
The A7 not only does the top better it does the midrange better (when DDR is the yardstick).
dave
Funy that opinion differ. Is there a BIG difference between the three alpairs or they are sounding really alike?
What is DDR?
anyways, its up to the op to decide.
here both comment of mr pass and monte verdi
Mr pass:
Alpair: The variations on the Jordan (plastic cones) are a safe buy, and they
sound good in a box or OB. I tend to like the larger ones. At BAF we had a
pair of the new paper cone units (which I was told were Peerless, possibly
mistakenly) which were there for evaluation at the next Speaker Camp, and I
think unanimously judged the best of the bunch. I was reminded of that, so
I just ordered the 12P models.
Monte Verdi user: My past experience has been with the Alpair 7.2 which did an outstanding job in an OB configuration in my system for over a year. In all honesty though, the new 12P takes things to a whole other level of performance. Frankly, the highs and extension are every bit as good if not better IMHO than the 7, and the mids, mid-lows and upper low make the bandwidth synergy of the driver exceptional , especially considering price category. I have not heard the 10, so my vote is with the 12P, you will not be sorry as this is one of the finest drivers at any price!
here both comment of mr pass and monte verdi
Mr pass:
Alpair: The variations on the Jordan (plastic cones) are a safe buy, and they
sound good in a box or OB. I tend to like the larger ones. At BAF we had a
pair of the new paper cone units (which I was told were Peerless, possibly
mistakenly) which were there for evaluation at the next Speaker Camp, and I
think unanimously judged the best of the bunch. I was reminded of that, so
I just ordered the 12P models.
Monte Verdi user: My past experience has been with the Alpair 7.2 which did an outstanding job in an OB configuration in my system for over a year. In all honesty though, the new 12P takes things to a whole other level of performance. Frankly, the highs and extension are every bit as good if not better IMHO than the 7, and the mids, mid-lows and upper low make the bandwidth synergy of the driver exceptional , especially considering price category. I have not heard the 10, so my vote is with the 12P, you will not be sorry as this is one of the finest drivers at any price!
I am going to reread everything a few times but as an update I have a few tricks up my sleeve.
1. The total budget is 1000 Aud. 600 for drivers. 400 for the rest.
2. I have a spare MiniDSP 2x4. Not afraid to use it but will need to come up with a complete plug & play solution including some sort of speaker delay / protection to avoid the bloody turn on thump ? Ideas welcome.
3. I have a spare tpa3116d... Enough power for the A7? Something bigger for the woofers required?
4. I have 50 Russian 10uf Teflon caps I got for a steal.
I really don't mind which way it goes, it just needs to be an elegant solution with no fiddly bits.
The A12's ain't gonna happen, she heard my A7's and said "I want them".
1. The total budget is 1000 Aud. 600 for drivers. 400 for the rest.
2. I have a spare MiniDSP 2x4. Not afraid to use it but will need to come up with a complete plug & play solution including some sort of speaker delay / protection to avoid the bloody turn on thump ? Ideas welcome.
3. I have a spare tpa3116d... Enough power for the A7? Something bigger for the woofers required?
4. I have 50 Russian 10uf Teflon caps I got for a steal.
I really don't mind which way it goes, it just needs to be an elegant solution with no fiddly bits.
The A12's ain't gonna happen, she heard my A7's and said "I want them".
This is a great thread! Anxious as to the final solution.
Currently waiting for 10.3 in the mail but I have the 7.3 in a largish BR on top of 2 subs. Crossover is 100Hz active as the subs have built in EQ. Seems to pound ok for parties.
The wife would like the subs to be smaller so probably ending up with 5FE120 faitals, 4 a side. This ends up around 7 or so inches wide cabinet front firing so easier to xOver. Not the best for parties but our place is smaller.
I put LD25x on top of the 12p (sacrilege by 3kHz LR4). Honestly hard to tell the difference and could live with or without the tweeter. Tweeter is slightly better for me as I like a hot top end. Need a notch filter with the 12P to get the similar effect as tweeter.
Passive is harder to do but the ease in setting up the system is worth the pain for me. If the OP has a mic, people here could probably help with a good passive xOver Im sure. I got tired of messing with the active all the time when changing speakers.
Interested in the final xover frequency as the larger woofer might be the way to go. Any short list on drivers so far?
Currently waiting for 10.3 in the mail but I have the 7.3 in a largish BR on top of 2 subs. Crossover is 100Hz active as the subs have built in EQ. Seems to pound ok for parties.
The wife would like the subs to be smaller so probably ending up with 5FE120 faitals, 4 a side. This ends up around 7 or so inches wide cabinet front firing so easier to xOver. Not the best for parties but our place is smaller.
I put LD25x on top of the 12p (sacrilege by 3kHz LR4). Honestly hard to tell the difference and could live with or without the tweeter. Tweeter is slightly better for me as I like a hot top end. Need a notch filter with the 12P to get the similar effect as tweeter.
Passive is harder to do but the ease in setting up the system is worth the pain for me. If the OP has a mic, people here could probably help with a good passive xOver Im sure. I got tired of messing with the active all the time when changing speakers.
Interested in the final xover frequency as the larger woofer might be the way to go. Any short list on drivers so far?
the SB Acoustics price in Aussie is very competitive, so i think there's not much choice, and given he decided to make sealed, i dont see any other options either.
no current woofers on the market can do sealed with f3 below 40hz.
Looks like a neat woofer! Sounds like Planet10 has nailed it.
Can anyone comment on floor bounce vs the distance in the drawing to the 7.3 vs crossover frequency? As others have commented, is it lesser of 2 evils to located the woofer closer to the 7.3 to make the crossover easier and suffer some potential floor bounce?
Can anyone comment on floor bounce vs the distance in the drawing to the 7.3 vs crossover frequency? As others have commented, is it lesser of 2 evils to located the woofer closer to the 7.3 to make the crossover easier and suffer some potential floor bounce?
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.