G'day all.
I recently had a close female friend hand me $600 cash and say "Please build me some speakers!!".
Good on her I thought. So, time for a design, which is were you guys come in.
Requirements / Ideas :
- Slim baffle for the that chic look. ( Needs to be High FFAF (Female Friend Acceptance Factor) Design)
- Large Woofers (10 > 12"). She loves bass and big woofers.
- Side mounted Woofer to keep the front slim.
- Easy crossover, I'm not too experienced with that aspect, hence the A7.3
Drivers :
- Alpair 7.3 - Sealed 5 > 7 Liter Chamber - $200 a pair
- 12" Woofers - About 100 Liters to play with. - $400 a pair.
I found these SB woofers locally for $189 each. So about 400 for the pair delivered. The sensitivity looks good and they seem to sim well in a 90L sealed cab with an F3 around 35Hz. Looks like a vented cab would need a lot more volume for this driver. I am open to any better suited suggestions.
SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 Woofer 12
I can get Peerless and Vifa locally if anybody thinks they might work better.
I would really appreciate some help on this one. Feel free to point it out if I am heading in the wrong direction. Absolute sound quality is not the name of the game here, just something that plays most stuff well.
I figure an extra $200 > $300 on the cabs/crossover parts ( I have a few) and finishing, which she has said yes to.
I know there has been quite a few similar designs but figured this could be a build log and a place for me to ask questions.
Rough Sketchup Model attached - Notes:
- Baffle is angled back 5 degrees, can / may change.
- Height can change but don't want to make it much deeper.
- Yes, I will be adding bracing to the woofer section
Cheers all.
Dean
I recently had a close female friend hand me $600 cash and say "Please build me some speakers!!".
Good on her I thought. So, time for a design, which is were you guys come in.
Requirements / Ideas :
- Slim baffle for the that chic look. ( Needs to be High FFAF (Female Friend Acceptance Factor) Design)
- Large Woofers (10 > 12"). She loves bass and big woofers.
- Side mounted Woofer to keep the front slim.
- Easy crossover, I'm not too experienced with that aspect, hence the A7.3
Drivers :
- Alpair 7.3 - Sealed 5 > 7 Liter Chamber - $200 a pair
- 12" Woofers - About 100 Liters to play with. - $400 a pair.
I found these SB woofers locally for $189 each. So about 400 for the pair delivered. The sensitivity looks good and they seem to sim well in a 90L sealed cab with an F3 around 35Hz. Looks like a vented cab would need a lot more volume for this driver. I am open to any better suited suggestions.
SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 Woofer 12
I can get Peerless and Vifa locally if anybody thinks they might work better.
I would really appreciate some help on this one. Feel free to point it out if I am heading in the wrong direction. Absolute sound quality is not the name of the game here, just something that plays most stuff well.
I figure an extra $200 > $300 on the cabs/crossover parts ( I have a few) and finishing, which she has said yes to.
I know there has been quite a few similar designs but figured this could be a build log and a place for me to ask questions.
Rough Sketchup Model attached - Notes:
- Baffle is angled back 5 degrees, can / may change.
- Height can change but don't want to make it much deeper.
- Yes, I will be adding bracing to the woofer section
Cheers all.
Dean
Attachments
Why don't you include Claire in the decision ? It 'll be a battle of expectances !
From the technical POV, IMO !!, is no good to do those matches based only upon driver's sensitivities, because in the end woofer's Sd would be huge. A "pair of speakers" includes many things...yes, the kind of music listened, the source & the amplifier, the in-room accomodation, the personal tastes. So if you fell comfortable with what you think it'll sound best/good, well, go that way.
If I was to make a similar job, I would make the boxes minimal, and modular.
Two cubes for self-powered subwoofers ( and no more than 7 "-8" drivers ) and two cubes ( open back ) for the satellites. Many more combinations in the room and for future improvement. Yes, I know...the HP for the satellites might be a little difficult without having a dedicated active crossover ( like those inside HT systems).
From the technical POV, IMO !!, is no good to do those matches based only upon driver's sensitivities, because in the end woofer's Sd would be huge. A "pair of speakers" includes many things...yes, the kind of music listened, the source & the amplifier, the in-room accomodation, the personal tastes. So if you fell comfortable with what you think it'll sound best/good, well, go that way.
If I was to make a similar job, I would make the boxes minimal, and modular.
Two cubes for self-powered subwoofers ( and no more than 7 "-8" drivers ) and two cubes ( open back ) for the satellites. Many more combinations in the room and for future improvement. Yes, I know...the HP for the satellites might be a little difficult without having a dedicated active crossover ( like those inside HT systems).
Hi Dean,
The SB34 is great choice, there's only few woofers left in the market thats suitable for sealed box, and this is one of them.
100L will give u F3 35hz, F6 27hz and F10 20hz.
make sure you put alot of bracings inside, TAS oak dowels prob good for this purposes and u can get them from your local bunnings
.
Another option would be a coax on top or SB15 with SB26 or SB25STCN small flange.
cheers
henry
The SB34 is great choice, there's only few woofers left in the market thats suitable for sealed box, and this is one of them.
100L will give u F3 35hz, F6 27hz and F10 20hz.
make sure you put alot of bracings inside, TAS oak dowels prob good for this purposes and u can get them from your local bunnings
.Another option would be a coax on top or SB15 with SB26 or SB25STCN small flange.
cheers
henry
Passive XO?
That woofer looks very interesting. I'd push it close to the A7 to allow higher XO.
You might as well vent the mid-tweeter enclosure and damp it until aperiodic. Knock down the impedance peak which will help with the XO.
If you get the box too narrow, you will be able to hear it as reflections back thru the A7 cone. Your box is not that narrow.
dave
That woofer looks very interesting. I'd push it close to the A7 to allow higher XO.
You might as well vent the mid-tweeter enclosure and damp it until aperiodic. Knock down the impedance peak which will help with the XO.
If you get the box too narrow, you will be able to hear it as reflections back thru the A7 cone. Your box is not that narrow.
dave
How high would you recommend? i crossed around 200hz for a side firing dynaudio 12" woofer in sealed with 1st order electrical with success. the location was at the bottom.
I think to maintain power handling the A7 should be crossed above 200hz
Nice work team.
I'll answer / ask a few questions in order:
1. Greebster - The L26ROY / AS2.100 will blow the budget for options she will never use. I would love to but she also already has an amp so..
2. Pico - Claire and I had a napkin meeting and talked through the various options. What she really wants is:
- 2 boxes that can be moved from house to house
- Minimal connections - Basically plug it in and make music
- Something she can listen to jazz on and then crank up for a party ( I explained that if she wants a concert at home she needs to up the budget from $1000 to $2000. She smiled and said no)
- Something that looks CHIC to suite her modern TV setup.
3. Henry - Good to get your insight on the woofer. I would love to build a monster box around 200L and vent the woofer for an F3 at 25Hz but they won't fit in her house and she will never be able to move them. Its a small to medium room so the room gain should boost the bottom end a bit.
4. The Boxes will be built from 18mm Ply with holey braces running on both axis vertically in the woofer section.
5. I would like to do a mid / tweeter combo but the budget isn't there and she loves the sound of my A7.3's. Plus I'm crap at crossover design and I know the Alpair / woofer combo will be miles beyond her Logitec desktop speakers.
6. Dave - Passive XO = YES. I will need some help on the values but 12 dB slopes is a possibility. I might need to sacrifice other sonic areas to protect the Alpair as much as possible.
7. I know you have built an aperiodic enclosure for the A7 before and would much appreciate your advice. I have drawn a 1 to 1/10 taper ratio for the mid enclosure after seeing your drawings somewhere else, and to minimize parallel surfaces in both cabs.
8. I need to crunch some numbers but wanted to have the baffle width support the A7 low end until transition to the woofer.
9. Moving the Woofer upwards is no problem. Again I will need to crunch the numbers but I guess it depends on the crossover point, any advice on a suitable frequency (considering the requirements) appreciated.
Thanks for the input guys, I have heaps of work on at the moment but will be building these in the next 2 months and will keep updating here.
Dean
I'll answer / ask a few questions in order:
1. Greebster - The L26ROY / AS2.100 will blow the budget for options she will never use. I would love to but she also already has an amp so..
2. Pico - Claire and I had a napkin meeting and talked through the various options. What she really wants is:
- 2 boxes that can be moved from house to house
- Minimal connections - Basically plug it in and make music
- Something she can listen to jazz on and then crank up for a party ( I explained that if she wants a concert at home she needs to up the budget from $1000 to $2000. She smiled and said no)
- Something that looks CHIC to suite her modern TV setup.
3. Henry - Good to get your insight on the woofer. I would love to build a monster box around 200L and vent the woofer for an F3 at 25Hz but they won't fit in her house and she will never be able to move them. Its a small to medium room so the room gain should boost the bottom end a bit.
4. The Boxes will be built from 18mm Ply with holey braces running on both axis vertically in the woofer section.
5. I would like to do a mid / tweeter combo but the budget isn't there and she loves the sound of my A7.3's. Plus I'm crap at crossover design and I know the Alpair / woofer combo will be miles beyond her Logitec desktop speakers.
6. Dave - Passive XO = YES. I will need some help on the values but 12 dB slopes is a possibility. I might need to sacrifice other sonic areas to protect the Alpair as much as possible.
7. I know you have built an aperiodic enclosure for the A7 before and would much appreciate your advice. I have drawn a 1 to 1/10 taper ratio for the mid enclosure after seeing your drawings somewhere else, and to minimize parallel surfaces in both cabs.
8. I need to crunch some numbers but wanted to have the baffle width support the A7 low end until transition to the woofer.
9. Moving the Woofer upwards is no problem. Again I will need to crunch the numbers but I guess it depends on the crossover point, any advice on a suitable frequency (considering the requirements) appreciated.
Thanks for the input guys, I have heaps of work on at the moment but will be building these in the next 2 months and will keep updating here.
Dean
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Dean,
Just an observation on your initial sketch - 60cm depth for the speaker is quite a lot; will it blend with her modern TV set up you mentioned?
You think you can pull off a good design with 2 x 8 inch woofers/cab and a smaller cabinet altogether? Smaller woofers can be crossed higher too.Maybe Dave can advise?
Just an observation on your initial sketch - 60cm depth for the speaker is quite a lot; will it blend with her modern TV set up you mentioned?
You think you can pull off a good design with 2 x 8 inch woofers/cab and a smaller cabinet altogether? Smaller woofers can be crossed higher too.Maybe Dave can advise?
how high can someone go with woofers on the side without too much problem? 180hz?
BTW, I know that mr pass, Bob brines and another guy in here to whom I spoke on the phone, has heard the a7 and the a12 and all three prefered the a12p. While planet 10 and chris seems to prefer the A7. I personally prefer a larger midrange. Any reason why the A7.3?
BTW, I know that mr pass, Bob brines and another guy in here to whom I spoke on the phone, has heard the a7 and the a12 and all three prefered the a12p. While planet 10 and chris seems to prefer the A7. I personally prefer a larger midrange. Any reason why the A7.3?
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Thunk,
The link provided tho active is effectively the same speaker you've proposed. A system like this is only an active crossover + and additional amp to make the same as what you want todo with a passive crossover like in a 2 way. The low crossover point would require more expensive components to pull off.
Now if you were to include active and ditch the passive and picked up a suitable amp/receiver/integrated etc from ebay cheap may actually cost little more than going passive. For example a miniDSP 2x4 is $80+S/H and what ever you find for the amp. If the GF already has a powerful amp this could be used to drive the sub and the additional lower power amp to handle the Alpair.
Did similar for my son's FAST system. Altho I had an electronic crossover/plate amp sub all that was needed was a cheap receiver. Picked up an old Marantz for $45. Passive high pass to the fullrange is nothing but a single cap. Done deal.
The system I'm working on now is being prototyped with a single miniDSP 2x4 (bought when they were $100 ea, now $80) will be getting a second one before done. Infinitely more flexible, cost doesn't rise when voicing and on the fly adjustments to speed the process.
While I'm sure others (like planet10) will have other suggestions that may cost less, this is their specialty and know what specifically works well. I defer to their experience on this front. Either way I'm sure she'll be happy with the outcome.
The link provided tho active is effectively the same speaker you've proposed. A system like this is only an active crossover + and additional amp to make the same as what you want todo with a passive crossover like in a 2 way. The low crossover point would require more expensive components to pull off.
Now if you were to include active and ditch the passive and picked up a suitable amp/receiver/integrated etc from ebay cheap may actually cost little more than going passive. For example a miniDSP 2x4 is $80+S/H and what ever you find for the amp. If the GF already has a powerful amp this could be used to drive the sub and the additional lower power amp to handle the Alpair.
Did similar for my son's FAST system. Altho I had an electronic crossover/plate amp sub all that was needed was a cheap receiver. Picked up an old Marantz for $45. Passive high pass to the fullrange is nothing but a single cap. Done deal.
The system I'm working on now is being prototyped with a single miniDSP 2x4 (bought when they were $100 ea, now $80) will be getting a second one before done. Infinitely more flexible, cost doesn't rise when voicing and on the fly adjustments to speed the process.
While I'm sure others (like planet10) will have other suggestions that may cost less, this is their specialty and know what specifically works well. I defer to their experience on this front. Either way I'm sure she'll be happy with the outcome.
Thinking of Planet10 and I suggesting an aperiodic damp ('!?) for the fullrange...
Consider something like an Ikea bowl ( search in the forum ) or crescent diameter layers
to make the baffle spherical; also conical or a pyramid, or mixed !!!
Those would be a little step further from the logitech Pc speakers.
I mean, I really don't like the floorstand conception & connection so I won't make any remarks about it; if those are for a girl -even if men are pronest to suffer from hernia!!!!- I would put many little handles to carry them and to install them, the 4 little boxes.
Consider something like an Ikea bowl ( search in the forum ) or crescent diameter layers
to make the baffle spherical; also conical or a pyramid, or mixed !!!
Those would be a little step further from the logitech Pc speakers.
I mean, I really don't like the floorstand conception & connection so I won't make any remarks about it; if those are for a girl -even if men are pronest to suffer from hernia!!!!- I would put many little handles to carry them and to install them, the 4 little boxes.
On the phone now so excuse typos.
The initial £600 AUD she gave me was for the whole project, so you can see what I am going to say next.
I currently use two systems with minidsps.. An all OB rig and a bitsa shed system. I can't recommend them highly enough, but this just isn't that type of project.
Theres two things to remember here to steer this conversation. 1 - Anything beyond putting the red wire in the red thingy on the box thingy is going to stress her out and she will stop using them. 2 - What! Theres two wires to the box thingy... O my god!
My choice of A7.3 and the SB34 is almost over budget. Even the A10 or Dual 8's per side will sink this boat. With a bit of luck there may be an opportunity in the future to try some other ideas for other people.
She has her TV on an old dresser in the lounge but my initial drawing was more about trying to get a slimish cab with 110 liter volume. I will have to calc the baffle step and xo before I can lock in the real dimensions. Something near 50 cm deep will be better and I may have to look at the 10" SB driver and drop the cab volume.
Did I mention she loves bass?!
The initial £600 AUD she gave me was for the whole project, so you can see what I am going to say next.
I currently use two systems with minidsps.. An all OB rig and a bitsa shed system. I can't recommend them highly enough, but this just isn't that type of project.
Theres two things to remember here to steer this conversation. 1 - Anything beyond putting the red wire in the red thingy on the box thingy is going to stress her out and she will stop using them. 2 - What! Theres two wires to the box thingy... O my god!
My choice of A7.3 and the SB34 is almost over budget. Even the A10 or Dual 8's per side will sink this boat. With a bit of luck there may be an opportunity in the future to try some other ideas for other people.
She has her TV on an old dresser in the lounge but my initial drawing was more about trying to get a slimish cab with 110 liter volume. I will have to calc the baffle step and xo before I can lock in the real dimensions. Something near 50 cm deep will be better and I may have to look at the 10" SB driver and drop the cab volume.
Did I mention she loves bass?!
I would get vandersteen for her and be done with itOn the phone now so excuse typos.
The initial £600 AUD she gave me was for the whole project, so you can see what I am going to say next.
I currently use two systems with minidsps.. An all OB rig and a bitsa shed system. I can't recommend them highly enough, but this just isn't that type of project.
Theres two things to remember here to steer this conversation. 1 - Anything beyond putting the red wire in the red thingy on the box thingy is going to stress her out and she will stop using them. 2 - What! Theres two wires to the box thingy... O my god!
My choice of A7.3 and the SB34 is almost over budget. Even the A10 or Dual 8's per side will sink this boat. With a bit of luck there may be an opportunity in the future to try some other ideas for other people.
She has her TV on an old dresser in the lounge but my initial drawing was more about trying to get a slimish cab with 110 liter volume. I will have to calc the baffle step and xo before I can lock in the real dimensions. Something near 50 cm deep will be better and I may have to look at the 10" SB driver and drop the cab volume.
Did I mention she loves bass?!
For a passive speaker, the whole speaker will depend on the XO, and a system with the A7 hasnt been done passively, this would be hard to have great result cheaply.
I would play it safe on build a known quality kit speaker.
Hey Murphy.
I could go the vandersteen route but she would never see them
I don't think this is a particularly challenging design, just needs a few details sorted correctly.. I think there might be quite a few passive A7 mulitways out there..
I am thinking about building the cabs and refining the xo options using the MiniDSP first. Then convert my findings to passive.
Do you really think it won't work?? I'm pretty keen to give it a go.
I could go the vandersteen route but she would never see them
I don't think this is a particularly challenging design, just needs a few details sorted correctly.. I think there might be quite a few passive A7 mulitways out there..
I am thinking about building the cabs and refining the xo options using the MiniDSP first. Then convert my findings to passive.
Do you really think it won't work?? I'm pretty keen to give it a go.
hey, I have no idea at all if it would work, I just know that a passive XO is much harder to acheive. If you think you can pull it off, go for it!!!!
You could get a sure design kit or speaker in that price range like a vandersteen that will make her happy for sure.
I would seriously talk to her about all the options, and buying used speakers is a damn fine option.
A vandersteen or a KEF 104 will surely make her happy, while your design could fail, or at least cost a lot due to the passive XO.
Maybe you could consider a 2-way kit designed by bagby or zaph, then add a active subwoofer. what is her amp, is there a sub out?
You could get a sure design kit or speaker in that price range like a vandersteen that will make her happy for sure.
I would seriously talk to her about all the options, and buying used speakers is a damn fine option.
A vandersteen or a KEF 104 will surely make her happy, while your design could fail, or at least cost a lot due to the passive XO.
Maybe you could consider a 2-way kit designed by bagby or zaph, then add a active subwoofer. what is her amp, is there a sub out?
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