Threw the HP64 horn and DH1a at the wooden board. It might be painted one day, honest...
The board screws into the midbass cabinet using the flying holes. Should be nice and secure.
Chris
The board screws into the midbass cabinet using the flying holes. Should be nice and secure.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Chris
Last night was the first gig with these speakers.
Got everything in with my 1x15" OD-QWP attempt and set it all up. Sounded lovely. There was an NU6000DSP on the Fanes, another driving sub one one side, and an old Peavey amp powering the tweeters. Sounded genuinely hifi.
Went to the toilet near the stage, came back and the NU6k driving the Fanes had the red lights of death. Switched it off and back on, and worked for 10 seconds, then off again. Crap crap crap.
Got the 2nd NU6k, which was the previously-dodgy one, and hung the two Fanes off one side, the sub off the other, spent a little while swearing at the DSP and then it worked. Mono midbasses for the night but hey, nobody was going to notice.
Right at the end I played Sandstorm and turned everything up. Those Fanes got warm - there was definitely a warm driver smell, though the NU6k was nudging into the limiter fairly solidly. Power delivery must've been >500w continuous per Fane driver. Lots and lots of output, though - very impressed.
I definitely need more subs, though. I think a 15" a side would be a good start, and with 2x15" a side I should look at more midbass cabs. Another pair of Fanes would get me +6dB, though it might be time to think about horn-loading some stuff next time around.
Of course, these DH1a tweeters still have lots to give, I have no doubt about that.
Pic from last night, before the bands turned up with their noisy drums and amps.
Chris
Got everything in with my 1x15" OD-QWP attempt and set it all up. Sounded lovely. There was an NU6000DSP on the Fanes, another driving sub one one side, and an old Peavey amp powering the tweeters. Sounded genuinely hifi.
Went to the toilet near the stage, came back and the NU6k driving the Fanes had the red lights of death. Switched it off and back on, and worked for 10 seconds, then off again. Crap crap crap.
Got the 2nd NU6k, which was the previously-dodgy one, and hung the two Fanes off one side, the sub off the other, spent a little while swearing at the DSP and then it worked. Mono midbasses for the night but hey, nobody was going to notice.
Right at the end I played Sandstorm and turned everything up. Those Fanes got warm - there was definitely a warm driver smell, though the NU6k was nudging into the limiter fairly solidly. Power delivery must've been >500w continuous per Fane driver. Lots and lots of output, though - very impressed.
I definitely need more subs, though. I think a 15" a side would be a good start, and with 2x15" a side I should look at more midbass cabs. Another pair of Fanes would get me +6dB, though it might be time to think about horn-loading some stuff next time around.
Of course, these DH1a tweeters still have lots to give, I have no doubt about that.
Pic from last night, before the bands turned up with their noisy drums and amps.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Chris
Last edited:
Back again, this time as a Physics graduate.
I decided, in the end, that 4x small sealed subwoofers would be better to have at the moment: I've moved house and have limited space available. Each box is around 35L for a Beyma 15P1200Nd. The pile of four can make the house make complaining noises down to 20Hz. Outdoors, they'll kick hard with a 50Hz cutoff. In a small venue, I could probably aim for 35Hz.
I love the flexibility on offer here - I just select a different EQ preset I've made up, and that sets my maximum SPL and extension. The drivers are very good quality and sound good despite the massively sub-optimal cabinets. For something really bonkers, I could get some big wood panels, and make a huge FLH.
Since the sealed boxes are so small, I'm adding a plate of 4mm aluminium to the back of each one, and will be attaching radial CPU heatsinks immediately behind the driver. The idea here is that, when cone excursion gets going, the hot air from the magnet vents will pass over the heatsink, exchange a bit of heat, which will then be conducted to the plate to radiate into the venue.
Also purchased 4x Faital Pro 10FH520 midbass drivers, since the Fanes were having serious problems with power compression. I've designed some very small ported cabinets for them, which ought to provide some pretty serious SPL, with a 110Hz port tuning.
I got the wood cut, brought it back and then found Art's SynTripP thread, which has thrown a spanner in the works: it uses a pair of 10" midbass drivers plus a compression driver. The directivity control on offer is fantastic, as is the efficiency. I'd love to have a pair, but the contruction looks beyond me.
I think small size and the scalability of a bunch of tiny boxes still appeals most, though, so I'll be going ahead with my design. The end-result that I'll be using for a while will be 4x Beyma 15P1200Nd in small sealed boxes, plus 4x Faital 10FH520 in small ported boxes, plus 2x EV DH1a on various horns.
For now, I'm using the Fanes in the grey cabinets shown above. The ports are tuned around 50Hz, so I can apply a little boost for a full-range sound. Maximum SPL is limited, but so is storage space. The subs aren't road-worthy yet - one is almost there, but the other 3 are a way off yet.
I also have a QSC TouchMix 16, which is easily the best PA-related thing I've bought. So much flexibility, so little space used. I can't imagine needing another desk for a while.
Chris
I decided, in the end, that 4x small sealed subwoofers would be better to have at the moment: I've moved house and have limited space available. Each box is around 35L for a Beyma 15P1200Nd. The pile of four can make the house make complaining noises down to 20Hz. Outdoors, they'll kick hard with a 50Hz cutoff. In a small venue, I could probably aim for 35Hz.
I love the flexibility on offer here - I just select a different EQ preset I've made up, and that sets my maximum SPL and extension. The drivers are very good quality and sound good despite the massively sub-optimal cabinets. For something really bonkers, I could get some big wood panels, and make a huge FLH.
Since the sealed boxes are so small, I'm adding a plate of 4mm aluminium to the back of each one, and will be attaching radial CPU heatsinks immediately behind the driver. The idea here is that, when cone excursion gets going, the hot air from the magnet vents will pass over the heatsink, exchange a bit of heat, which will then be conducted to the plate to radiate into the venue.
Also purchased 4x Faital Pro 10FH520 midbass drivers, since the Fanes were having serious problems with power compression. I've designed some very small ported cabinets for them, which ought to provide some pretty serious SPL, with a 110Hz port tuning.
I got the wood cut, brought it back and then found Art's SynTripP thread, which has thrown a spanner in the works: it uses a pair of 10" midbass drivers plus a compression driver. The directivity control on offer is fantastic, as is the efficiency. I'd love to have a pair, but the contruction looks beyond me.
I think small size and the scalability of a bunch of tiny boxes still appeals most, though, so I'll be going ahead with my design. The end-result that I'll be using for a while will be 4x Beyma 15P1200Nd in small sealed boxes, plus 4x Faital 10FH520 in small ported boxes, plus 2x EV DH1a on various horns.
For now, I'm using the Fanes in the grey cabinets shown above. The ports are tuned around 50Hz, so I can apply a little boost for a full-range sound. Maximum SPL is limited, but so is storage space. The subs aren't road-worthy yet - one is almost there, but the other 3 are a way off yet.
I also have a QSC TouchMix 16, which is easily the best PA-related thing I've bought. So much flexibility, so little space used. I can't imagine needing another desk for a while.
Chris
Cheers Ernie.
I use good components where I can afford to, and believe that good drivers are 80% of the sound of a good PA. I use Behringer's amps, though will be swapping out my monitor amp: its currently an EP1500, but sometimes I hang 4x 8ohm monitors off one side, and another pair of different monitors on the other. Turns into a hair dryer if you get anywhere near clip, though that only occurs when rock bands get going. I'll be trading up for an NU4-6000DSP in the future - more monitor channels, more power.
I have to say, though, these subs are not a good implementation of these drivers at all
- this is just an example of making the system as small as possible, and hang everything else. To do something different, I'm using a rosewood stain on plywood. 3 coats on this one. No idea how well the stain will hold up on the road, but we'll see.
Matte black square grilles will go over the driver, and all 4 will be driven by an NU6000, DCX for crossover and EQ duties.
Done a couple of the aluminium plates today, pictures tomorrow.
Chris
I use good components where I can afford to, and believe that good drivers are 80% of the sound of a good PA. I use Behringer's amps, though will be swapping out my monitor amp: its currently an EP1500, but sometimes I hang 4x 8ohm monitors off one side, and another pair of different monitors on the other. Turns into a hair dryer if you get anywhere near clip, though that only occurs when rock bands get going. I'll be trading up for an NU4-6000DSP in the future - more monitor channels, more power.
I have to say, though, these subs are not a good implementation of these drivers at all
- this is just an example of making the system as small as possible, and hang everything else. To do something different, I'm using a rosewood stain on plywood. 3 coats on this one. No idea how well the stain will hold up on the road, but we'll see.An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Matte black square grilles will go over the driver, and all 4 will be driven by an NU6000, DCX for crossover and EQ duties.
Done a couple of the aluminium plates today, pictures tomorrow.
Chris
Smallest 15" pro subs ever lol. Your bass horn idea posted above actually sounds pretty cool. The rear chamber looks like it'll be close to the ideal size as is. Would make for a very flexible system.
I did my subs in a similar deck stain color. Seems to be holding well but not as tough as the commercial bed liner stuff of course.
I agree that drivers are where it's at. Although I have to admit there's a gacky upper mid range from the Inuke 3000dsp I have here. Especially noticeable with my bass rig. I don't know if it's the amp or the dsp section. Like the flexibility though.
Love the DCX however. Been flawless since 2009 in hot conditions and seems plenty transparent.
I did my subs in a similar deck stain color. Seems to be holding well but not as tough as the commercial bed liner stuff of course.
I agree that drivers are where it's at. Although I have to admit there's a gacky upper mid range from the Inuke 3000dsp I have here. Especially noticeable with my bass rig. I don't know if it's the amp or the dsp section. Like the flexibility though.
Love the DCX however. Been flawless since 2009 in hot conditions and seems plenty transparent.
Last edited:
Yep, definitely the smallest ones I've seen, though Flare Audio have similar. Coincidentally, I have a pair of their drivers, sold as 15P1200Nd by Beyma. They're close enough to the other pair that I don't notice any difference.
I've glued in the last bits of wood. Now it's all metalwork and finishing - the one above was the cabinet that I made all the mistakes on, so the rest should be perfect, right..?
Haven't noticed anything weird with my NU3k on EV DH1a drivers. I run them 1kHz up. Ill try it full-range against an old QSC amp and see if there's anything going on.
Got a gig tonight, but it's a small pub. EVs are going on some P.Audio 90x40 horns, and the Fane 12"s will cover midbass for tonight. Can't wait to get this full rig up and running, with the Faital mids. Might use the sub amp and mons amp for 4 monitor channels for a change. We get by on two, but more would be nice.
One problem with the Faitals, though, is that they have a 5ohm DCR, and the impedance drops that low in the 100s of Hz, staying low due to the demodulation rings. Putting the pair in parallel on an NU6k would be abusive, so I need to figure out some system for wiring them in series for 10ohm, while in seperate cabinets. They'd still be seeing half a kilowatt each on peaks, but there'll be no risk of the amp going thermal or blowing a breaker.
I'll quit rambling now, things to do.
Chris
I've glued in the last bits of wood. Now it's all metalwork and finishing - the one above was the cabinet that I made all the mistakes on, so the rest should be perfect, right..?
Haven't noticed anything weird with my NU3k on EV DH1a drivers. I run them 1kHz up. Ill try it full-range against an old QSC amp and see if there's anything going on.
Got a gig tonight, but it's a small pub. EVs are going on some P.Audio 90x40 horns, and the Fane 12"s will cover midbass for tonight. Can't wait to get this full rig up and running, with the Faital mids. Might use the sub amp and mons amp for 4 monitor channels for a change. We get by on two, but more would be nice.
One problem with the Faitals, though, is that they have a 5ohm DCR, and the impedance drops that low in the 100s of Hz, staying low due to the demodulation rings. Putting the pair in parallel on an NU6k would be abusive, so I need to figure out some system for wiring them in series for 10ohm, while in seperate cabinets. They'd still be seeing half a kilowatt each on peaks, but there'll be no risk of the amp going thermal or blowing a breaker.
I'll quit rambling now, things to do.
Chris
Bit of an update...
Okay, so I acquired a P-Audio SD21-1800N driver a while back, and that's going in a box soon. Hoping for a low-profile slot-loaded box, kinda similar to an X1 on SpeakerPlans, though the driver will be firing along the shortest dimension (ie, similar box, different aspect ratio). I'm hoping that keeping it narrow will make transport and positioning easier. There's 130dB@1m potential there with 100v input (about what I'll get from a C.Audio RA3001 bridged).
I've decided just to put the Faitals in series on the NU6k. The extra couple of dB from going parallel will mostly be eaten by power compression, and will definitely get the amp warm - the cab would be dropping below 3ohm for a lot of its range. 800w into a pair of 10"s will push out a useful amount of noise, and they'll be reaching around 5mm one-way travel, well within Xmax - the midrange should be nice and clean.
The old Fanes have a sensitivity advantage, but going anywhere near full tilt makes them very hot very quickly, killing off the sensitivity, and also throwing out LF alignment from raised Qes.
For the top cabs, I'll be taking a lot of inspiration from RCF HDL20A line array boxes. I'll be orientating vertically, 800Hz crossover from the Faital 10FH520 mids to the 18Sound ND1460 compression drivers on RCF HF94 horns. The slight horn loading will drop power requirements towards the top end of the 10"s' range. I'll probably be using 12mm plywood with lots of bracing. From cabinets gone by, I've learnt that a lot of feedback is caused by side panels vibrating, throwing 100s of Hz sideways, straight toward the mics.
I did fancy building some Synergy-style horns, like Art's SynTripP, but the build complexity is offputting, particularly getting the midbass cone profile just right - leaving too much wood in there would destroy the cones as soon as any power is applied.
Just realised I didn't post any pictures up as promised earlier. It'll be sorted soon.
Chris
Okay, so I acquired a P-Audio SD21-1800N driver a while back, and that's going in a box soon. Hoping for a low-profile slot-loaded box, kinda similar to an X1 on SpeakerPlans, though the driver will be firing along the shortest dimension (ie, similar box, different aspect ratio). I'm hoping that keeping it narrow will make transport and positioning easier. There's 130dB@1m potential there with 100v input (about what I'll get from a C.Audio RA3001 bridged).
I've decided just to put the Faitals in series on the NU6k. The extra couple of dB from going parallel will mostly be eaten by power compression, and will definitely get the amp warm - the cab would be dropping below 3ohm for a lot of its range. 800w into a pair of 10"s will push out a useful amount of noise, and they'll be reaching around 5mm one-way travel, well within Xmax - the midrange should be nice and clean.
The old Fanes have a sensitivity advantage, but going anywhere near full tilt makes them very hot very quickly, killing off the sensitivity, and also throwing out LF alignment from raised Qes.
For the top cabs, I'll be taking a lot of inspiration from RCF HDL20A line array boxes. I'll be orientating vertically, 800Hz crossover from the Faital 10FH520 mids to the 18Sound ND1460 compression drivers on RCF HF94 horns. The slight horn loading will drop power requirements towards the top end of the 10"s' range. I'll probably be using 12mm plywood with lots of bracing. From cabinets gone by, I've learnt that a lot of feedback is caused by side panels vibrating, throwing 100s of Hz sideways, straight toward the mics.
I did fancy building some Synergy-style horns, like Art's SynTripP, but the build complexity is offputting, particularly getting the midbass cone profile just right - leaving too much wood in there would destroy the cones as soon as any power is applied.
Just realised I didn't post any pictures up as promised earlier. It'll be sorted soon.
Chris
Hi Ernie,
You're right, it has been rather quiet.
A few developments...
- Going for a more standard TMM cabinet for the tops. The RCF line array element, while rather cool, would give some problems: construction difficulty; and the crossover would be difficult - I'd need to go down to 700Hz to avoid the comb filtering from the off-axis drivers as they sit in the horn. 700Hz is lower than I'd be comfortably running the compression drivers (18Sound ND1460, if I haven't mentioned before). There'll be BR ports on the back of the cabinet, 6 in total, which should mean plenty of convection cooling for the drivers. I can also block a few off to drop the tuning down for smaller gigs without subs. I think I've aimed at 70Hz tuning with all 6 open. Each port will be 3" diameter - these 10"s move quite a lot of air, and I wanted to ensure there won't be much port compression. I'll double-check all this before putting saw to wood.
- The amps are finally all sorted into something I'm happy with.
3 racks:
#1: NU3000DSP, for driving one side of the PA system, compression driver on one channel, 10"s wired in parallel on the other. All the signal processing done within the amp.
- NU4-6000 for monitor duties
- DCx2496 for summing, processing and splitting the signal to the subs etc. I'll be using a pair of splitters so I'm not doing A/D-D/A conversion just to get a pass through to the mid-high amps. Got to maintain a little fidelity...
#2: NU3000DSP, other side of PA. Run mains and XLR and off you go. Not as neat as an active speaker, but certainly cheaper.
#3: NU6000DSP for 4x15" subs, and an NU6000 for the 21", when its got a cab.
In total, around 1.5KW per side for the tops, and 5KW in subs, when the 21" is up and running. For now its a 7KW PA (plus 2KW for mons) and I'm starting to get worried about blowing fuses.
I can leave rack #3 behind when there's no subwoofers, and I decided the NU6000 would be more useful on a gig than the C-Audio RA3001 I was planning on using for the 21". Its 90v (one side of an NU6000) vs 100v output, but the older RA3001 added a lot of weight, and needed to be bridged - no spare channels for when something goes wrong.
I had a Cloud CX-A6 for a while doing monitor duty, but found it to be inadequate even for ceilidh (Irish/English dance) bands, so it'd never manage a drum kit. I used an EP1500 for those gigs.
Mixer is a QSC TM16, which I'm very happy with.
The 10"s will be wired in parallel on the tops, mostly because an NU3000DSP is cheaper than an NU6000DSP, which would require the 10"s to be series wired, only to deliver the same power.
I'm still deciding on a cabinet design for the 21" driver.
The 15"s are in sealed boxes. I know, not a great idea for PA. That said, I like the flexibility - in a small pub/club, I can EQ flat down to 30Hz for a very impressive sound. Outdoors, I stop at, say, 55Hz. Plenty of output, still the same tiny boxes.
I'm thinking of putting the 21" in a sealed box, too. Problem is that the smallest sealed box that'll go round it is 90L, and the ported designs I was playing around with come in at 150L-ish (28L=1cu.ft). The extra output from the ported designs (not much bigger than the sealed, after all) would be nice, but then there's the fun of integrating that with the 4x15"s.
I think I'll end up going sealed, as I really like the selectable LF extension. Conveniently, the 21" will move the same amount of air as a pair of the 15"s, so I'd have 1x21, 1x15 on one side, 3x15" on the other, or put a pile of subs in the middle when the stage is raised enough.
One day I'd like to have a big pile of 35Hz THs, but that won't be for a while yet. A man can dream, though.
I'm hoping to make a start on the tops soon, so will post pictures.
Thanks for your interest
Chris
PS - couple of tracks from a fairly recent pub gig. I've added a touch of compression using Audacity. The mixer didn't record the reverb (forgot to send it to the recording Aux), but you get the idea: https://soundcloud.com/grimshawaudio/sets/sky-moguls-the-red-deer-13th-feb-2016
You're right, it has been rather quiet.
A few developments...
- Going for a more standard TMM cabinet for the tops. The RCF line array element, while rather cool, would give some problems: construction difficulty; and the crossover would be difficult - I'd need to go down to 700Hz to avoid the comb filtering from the off-axis drivers as they sit in the horn. 700Hz is lower than I'd be comfortably running the compression drivers (18Sound ND1460, if I haven't mentioned before). There'll be BR ports on the back of the cabinet, 6 in total, which should mean plenty of convection cooling for the drivers. I can also block a few off to drop the tuning down for smaller gigs without subs. I think I've aimed at 70Hz tuning with all 6 open. Each port will be 3" diameter - these 10"s move quite a lot of air, and I wanted to ensure there won't be much port compression. I'll double-check all this before putting saw to wood.
- The amps are finally all sorted into something I'm happy with.
3 racks:
#1: NU3000DSP, for driving one side of the PA system, compression driver on one channel, 10"s wired in parallel on the other. All the signal processing done within the amp.
- NU4-6000 for monitor duties
- DCx2496 for summing, processing and splitting the signal to the subs etc. I'll be using a pair of splitters so I'm not doing A/D-D/A conversion just to get a pass through to the mid-high amps. Got to maintain a little fidelity...
#2: NU3000DSP, other side of PA. Run mains and XLR and off you go. Not as neat as an active speaker, but certainly cheaper.
#3: NU6000DSP for 4x15" subs, and an NU6000 for the 21", when its got a cab.
In total, around 1.5KW per side for the tops, and 5KW in subs, when the 21" is up and running. For now its a 7KW PA (plus 2KW for mons) and I'm starting to get worried about blowing fuses.
I can leave rack #3 behind when there's no subwoofers, and I decided the NU6000 would be more useful on a gig than the C-Audio RA3001 I was planning on using for the 21". Its 90v (one side of an NU6000) vs 100v output, but the older RA3001 added a lot of weight, and needed to be bridged - no spare channels for when something goes wrong.
I had a Cloud CX-A6 for a while doing monitor duty, but found it to be inadequate even for ceilidh (Irish/English dance) bands, so it'd never manage a drum kit. I used an EP1500 for those gigs.
Mixer is a QSC TM16, which I'm very happy with.
The 10"s will be wired in parallel on the tops, mostly because an NU3000DSP is cheaper than an NU6000DSP, which would require the 10"s to be series wired, only to deliver the same power.
I'm still deciding on a cabinet design for the 21" driver.
The 15"s are in sealed boxes. I know, not a great idea for PA. That said, I like the flexibility - in a small pub/club, I can EQ flat down to 30Hz for a very impressive sound. Outdoors, I stop at, say, 55Hz. Plenty of output, still the same tiny boxes.
I'm thinking of putting the 21" in a sealed box, too. Problem is that the smallest sealed box that'll go round it is 90L, and the ported designs I was playing around with come in at 150L-ish (28L=1cu.ft). The extra output from the ported designs (not much bigger than the sealed, after all) would be nice, but then there's the fun of integrating that with the 4x15"s.
I think I'll end up going sealed, as I really like the selectable LF extension. Conveniently, the 21" will move the same amount of air as a pair of the 15"s, so I'd have 1x21, 1x15 on one side, 3x15" on the other, or put a pile of subs in the middle when the stage is raised enough.
One day I'd like to have a big pile of 35Hz THs, but that won't be for a while yet. A man can dream, though.
I'm hoping to make a start on the tops soon, so will post pictures.
Thanks for your interest
Chris
PS - couple of tracks from a fairly recent pub gig. I've added a touch of compression using Audacity. The mixer didn't record the reverb (forgot to send it to the recording Aux), but you get the idea: https://soundcloud.com/grimshawaudio/sets/sky-moguls-the-red-deer-13th-feb-2016
Had a gig last night. At its messiest, it was a 5-piece band on a 4'x8' bit of staging. I don't think the venue had read much into who they were booking.
So, at peak, 5x vox, 2x violin, flute, guitar, drum, and occasionally a 2nd guitar. Had to use all of my vocal mics for that, so I've ordered a spare. There's a quick list of which mics I'm using at the bottom for those interested.
A good night was had, though.
Amp racks were pretty much as above (moved an NU6000DSP in with the NU3000DSP so I could run a couple of subs without needing another case), Fane speakers at the top of the page with the 18Sound tweeters. Used a pair of the 1x15" sealed subs for some low-end grunt, EQ'd for a gentle rolloff at 40Hz.
I was amazed that the subs metered (at the amplifier) at less than -10dB all night, which would be less than 100w per cabinet. The 12"s were nudging -6dB occasionally, which would be around 100w each from the NU3000s. No power compression there, but I still want those Faital 10"s up and running!
Probably around 50 people in front of stage, with some more further out. 100-150 in total, I expect. Coverage was really nice and even with those RCF horns and an 800Hz crossover - I didn't find any "ouch" areas at all.
Managed to do a multi-track recording of one of the bands that I work with often, so I can play with processing each instrument just nicely for next time I see them.
Chris
Mics:
EV N/D767a - my SM58 killer. They work on just about anything, and sound nice doing it. Supercardoid means feedback isn't a big problem.
Shure Beta-58a - sometimes people want a Shure mic. A bit more of that particular mid-high range than the EVs.
Sennheiser e838 - pretty much an e840. Not quite as nice as the EVs, but decent enough.
EV N/D478 - similar to the 767, but cardiod. Aimed at the SM57, and does well.
Got quite a few JTS NX-series mics, which are basically Shure Beta copies. They do a decent job, though I'd reach for my other mics first for vocals. The drum set is very useful, and the JTS stuff tends to be quite cheap over here.
I avoid Shure SM58/57 mics wherever I can - there are too many convincing fakes around to reliably buy them 2nd hand, and, IMO, the mics I have are at least as good.
So, at peak, 5x vox, 2x violin, flute, guitar, drum, and occasionally a 2nd guitar. Had to use all of my vocal mics for that, so I've ordered a spare. There's a quick list of which mics I'm using at the bottom for those interested.
A good night was had, though.
Amp racks were pretty much as above (moved an NU6000DSP in with the NU3000DSP so I could run a couple of subs without needing another case), Fane speakers at the top of the page with the 18Sound tweeters. Used a pair of the 1x15" sealed subs for some low-end grunt, EQ'd for a gentle rolloff at 40Hz.
I was amazed that the subs metered (at the amplifier) at less than -10dB all night, which would be less than 100w per cabinet. The 12"s were nudging -6dB occasionally, which would be around 100w each from the NU3000s. No power compression there, but I still want those Faital 10"s up and running!
Probably around 50 people in front of stage, with some more further out. 100-150 in total, I expect. Coverage was really nice and even with those RCF horns and an 800Hz crossover - I didn't find any "ouch" areas at all.
Managed to do a multi-track recording of one of the bands that I work with often, so I can play with processing each instrument just nicely for next time I see them.
Chris
Mics:
EV N/D767a - my SM58 killer. They work on just about anything, and sound nice doing it. Supercardoid means feedback isn't a big problem.
Shure Beta-58a - sometimes people want a Shure mic. A bit more of that particular mid-high range than the EVs.
Sennheiser e838 - pretty much an e840. Not quite as nice as the EVs, but decent enough.
EV N/D478 - similar to the 767, but cardiod. Aimed at the SM57, and does well.
Got quite a few JTS NX-series mics, which are basically Shure Beta copies. They do a decent job, though I'd reach for my other mics first for vocals. The drum set is very useful, and the JTS stuff tends to be quite cheap over here.
I avoid Shure SM58/57 mics wherever I can - there are too many convincing fakes around to reliably buy them 2nd hand, and, IMO, the mics I have are at least as good.
Sounds like fun. I agree on the mics.. I don't own any 57/58s because they are just flat and lifeless sounding.. yes they work but the E835 sounds better IMO.
Picked up an N/D967 the other day. Sounds really really nice - used it for main vocals in a folk band setup. The lead singer likes a lot of his vocals in the monitors, but we had no feedback all night. None at all. I'm really pleased - it'll probably replace the 767s as my go-to mic.
The TMM tops are coming along nicely. There's plenty of bracing in there, and the box is pretty much big enough to go around the drivers. 4x 3" ports at 115mm long gives a ~90Hz tuning, which gives a peaky output. The peak will be EQ'd flat, giving more power handling at the bottom end. Even EQ'd, port velocity will be on the high side, around 20m/s. Blocking off 2 or 3 ports give 67Hz and 50Hz tunings respectively, which will be useful when there's no space/time/need for subs.
Once these are done, I'm going to get that 21" driver doing something useful. Probably a small sealed box. After the gig I mentioned in the last post, another box capable of the output of that 2x15" would be nice.
I'll post up some pictures of the construction so far shortly.
Chris
The TMM tops are coming along nicely. There's plenty of bracing in there, and the box is pretty much big enough to go around the drivers. 4x 3" ports at 115mm long gives a ~90Hz tuning, which gives a peaky output. The peak will be EQ'd flat, giving more power handling at the bottom end. Even EQ'd, port velocity will be on the high side, around 20m/s. Blocking off 2 or 3 ports give 67Hz and 50Hz tunings respectively, which will be useful when there's no space/time/need for subs.
Once these are done, I'm going to get that 21" driver doing something useful. Probably a small sealed box. After the gig I mentioned in the last post, another box capable of the output of that 2x15" would be nice.
I'll post up some pictures of the construction so far shortly.
Chris
Got one of the tops up and running. Kept the same EQ on the tweeter, and LR4 at 800Hz on the Faitals. NU3000DSP for power, 10"s in parallel, giving a ~4ohm (drops to 2.6ohm in places) load.
So far, even in mono, things are sounding pretty stunning. There's a certain resolution on offer here. Take "This Love" by Taylor Swift as an example. The vocals are double-tracked pretty much all the way through, and panned hard left and right. Mixed down to mono with this speaker, its still obvious that its a double-tracked vocal, without the stereo cues.
With all the ports open (and taped in place), there's still a reasonable semblence of bass. Rolloff comes in around 100Hz, but there's a big peak before it drops off, so your brain fills in the rest. Add a 4th order Butterworth filter, and the sim comes in flat to 90Hz, -6dB at ~82Hz, which is where I've currently got the subs (a pair of 15"s, why not?) coming in with a LR4 crossover. Integration's not quite there, but not far off.
Went up to full power for all of 10 seconds. Ear-splittingly loud, as you'd probably expect with around 1.2KW into a pair of 10" PA speakers in a living room. Lots of kick, too.
Now that I'm fairly sure I'm on to something good, I'll strip this cabinet and begin applying the rosewood stain. Once fully assembled, I'll get the measurement mic out and make sure there's a nice smooth directivity match between the 10"s and tweeter, and also that the ports are tuned correctly.
Chris
PS - couple of pictures of drivers and back. More coming, I promise.
So far, even in mono, things are sounding pretty stunning. There's a certain resolution on offer here. Take "This Love" by Taylor Swift as an example. The vocals are double-tracked pretty much all the way through, and panned hard left and right. Mixed down to mono with this speaker, its still obvious that its a double-tracked vocal, without the stereo cues.
With all the ports open (and taped in place), there's still a reasonable semblence of bass. Rolloff comes in around 100Hz, but there's a big peak before it drops off, so your brain fills in the rest. Add a 4th order Butterworth filter, and the sim comes in flat to 90Hz, -6dB at ~82Hz, which is where I've currently got the subs (a pair of 15"s, why not?) coming in with a LR4 crossover. Integration's not quite there, but not far off.
Went up to full power for all of 10 seconds. Ear-splittingly loud, as you'd probably expect with around 1.2KW into a pair of 10" PA speakers in a living room. Lots of kick, too.
Now that I'm fairly sure I'm on to something good, I'll strip this cabinet and begin applying the rosewood stain. Once fully assembled, I'll get the measurement mic out and make sure there's a nice smooth directivity match between the 10"s and tweeter, and also that the ports are tuned correctly.
Chris
PS - couple of pictures of drivers and back. More coming, I promise.
Those are going to look sharp! Quite the collection of top quality components you're building up.
If it doesn't mess anything else too much you might want to try a Harsch crossover or something similar. Should be relatively easy to implement with your Inukes.
My 3-way setup crosses at approximately 250 and 1.5K.
LR24 on subs.
LR12 bandpass on mids.
LR24 on highs.
With the right delays on the mids and highs you can get some semblance of linear phase. REW is popular but I use Holm Impulse for measurements.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/277691-s-harsch-xo.html
If it doesn't mess anything else too much you might want to try a Harsch crossover or something similar. Should be relatively easy to implement with your Inukes.
My 3-way setup crosses at approximately 250 and 1.5K.
LR24 on subs.
LR12 bandpass on mids.
LR24 on highs.
With the right delays on the mids and highs you can get some semblance of linear phase. REW is popular but I use Holm Impulse for measurements.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/277691-s-harsch-xo.html
It's a valid concern, the midrange leakage. However, in the interests of keeping the cabinets small, that's about the only place they can go. When I had the single cab up and running, I noticed very little midrange leakage from the ports.
I'd like to keep a ported design to minimise long-term power compression, since that was a serious problem with my previous tops.
Had a gig last night that I'll write about tomorrow - I'm on break at work atm.
Chris
I'd like to keep a ported design to minimise long-term power compression, since that was a serious problem with my previous tops.
Had a gig last night that I'll write about tomorrow - I'm on break at work atm.
Chris
No pro sound speaker manufacturer produces speakers with ports on the back.. that can't be just a coincidence. No this probably won't be a big deal in many cases but there is always that one venue with walls of glass behind the stage that is already a feedback nightmare and that little bit of leakage from the ports might be just enough to make your night an even bigger headache.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.