You win!
I noticed that. I think it may be the mic compensating for the change in SPL levels as he draws near, the same compensation happens when he puts the camera close to the tweeter.
However, the bass is indeed too loud for a reference recording to be sure. Could you make a recording with the bass lower? We will be able to better evaluate response. Perhaps total system volume could go down just a little as well. Your mic will respond by turning up it's gain, so the actual recording level should turn out the same.
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you could be entirely right about autogain on the recording mic's but despite that knowing the track like i do the snare, the low end of the organ line, the guitars hell even the vocals just don't seem right.
i'd mount the mid in a forward firing fashion along with the horn and re record the track(but cleaning up the mid's is mostly a question of sorting out the overlap in range with a x-over)
two sources emitting the same frequency but at different distances from the listener will exhibit some comb filtering no?
i'd mount the mid in a forward firing fashion along with the horn and re record the track(but cleaning up the mid's is mostly a question of sorting out the overlap in range with a x-over)
two sources emitting the same frequency but at different distances from the listener will exhibit some comb filtering no?
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I guess I'm a little slower to pass judgement lol. But speakers or recording, it doesn't sound right I agree with you.
That's a good point. Because your 15" woofer also plays so high, let's have it properly aligned too. If I may, I would like to request the following from you, to be better able to evaluate system response:
If you can in any way, perhaps align the three drivers by placing the woofer under the table, having the mid and tweet directly above. You can then make one of two, or both recordings; with the mid pointed up and/or forward facing. If you can be bothered to mount the mid (and tweet) into a simple baffle, this would be a tremendous benefit to the cause. Right now your driver is most likely suffering from extreme "baffle diffraction step" which will severely degrade clarity.
You are correct.
Edit: I just discovered this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/247553-building-some-pa-speaker-enclosures.html So that is why no one previously mentioned any information about the sub.
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This is something I absolutely agree on. With that being said, I only say I could possibly, as a worst case scenario for somebody, use this system to throw out some sound, more sound than a consumer stereo. For me, for now, Mono sounds good
I can agree with that for the most part. Small rooms would be fine, large ones would not. Still my arguement comes in where if someone absolutely needed sound in a location, would they choose me and my system, or their home stereo. Once again though I'm just saying that to say it, I'm never going to take this system off of my own property unless a friend would desperately need it.
I also absolutely agree with you here, especially your way of describing a dj's situation, you really get the point across.
I completely see why you would do this, and although I'm willing to change a lot, I will not get rid of my Cubo 15 woofer box anytime soon. I'm absolutely blown away at how that sounds, it's perfectly clear bass, all around the room, at no area does it sound louder than other areas of the room.
I'm not exactly sure what your asking here, but if your asking what box it's in, its from some free speaker plans online called the Cubo 15. Its the extended version, not just the normal version of the Cubo 15.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think having a mid facing up was actually a possible placement for a mid. I'm definitely going to look up those pluto speakers.
However I am still going to go for the traditional setup of having it and the compression driver in its own box that will sit on top of the woofer.
Both of you are correct!
I'm no expert and I might be totally wrong but I really think that's just the mic compressing because of how loud everything was. You have to remember an Ipod Touch mic is about the worst in the world, you can especially see how garbage it is considering depending on where I move in the video the sound changes, where in real life, I can move around the entire room or right up to the speakers and it all sounds the same.
Once again, I think it's the garbage mic. I was actually really surprised how the bass sounded in the video because when I was standing there listening to the real thing, the bass didn't sound so overpowering. Perhaps I'll make a new video sometime this week.
I'm not sure what changed but it seems like suddenly all of us (including me) are on the same page! We're getting somewhere...
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Hah--I thought Cubo 15 was a name you made up. I did not realise it was a well practiced speaker design. Correct me if I am wrong, but here is the plan's homepage: Cubo15
The very first thing on that page is the useful frequency range. It states "Frequency: From 40 Hz up to 110 Hz"
You need to cross your cubo 15 no higher than 110hz
This means you will have a system responce gap from 110hz to ~400hz, where your closed back mid will start to pick up. This is a huge gap TubeAmper guy, I strongly recommend returning that closed back mid in favor of an open back mid with a much lower fs that would be capable of playing to 100hz. Please, please seriously consider returning that mid.
The very first thing on that page is the useful frequency range. It states "Frequency: From 40 Hz up to 110 Hz"
You need to cross your cubo 15 no higher than 110hz
This means you will have a system responce gap from 110hz to ~400hz, where your closed back mid will start to pick up. This is a huge gap TubeAmper guy, I strongly recommend returning that closed back mid in favor of an open back mid with a much lower fs that would be capable of playing to 100hz. Please, please seriously consider returning that mid.
This is basically the open back version of your closed back mid:
Pyle PDMW6 6-1/2" Mid-Woofer | 292-204
Dayton makes nice things, and they publish their specs:
Dayton Audio PK165-8 6" Professional Kevlar/Paper Cone Midra | 295-020
Either of those drivers would be excellent choices. I spent a while looking at PE and I couldn't find any other drivers with appropriate power handling at this price. These are basically your options.
If you choose to keep your sealed back mid, we can't really help you any further. That type of enclosure-- the cubo 15-- is not designed to play very high at all. Ultimately I would not consider crossing it above 100hz.
Pyle PDMW6 6-1/2" Mid-Woofer | 292-204
Dayton makes nice things, and they publish their specs:
Dayton Audio PK165-8 6" Professional Kevlar/Paper Cone Midra | 295-020
Either of those drivers would be excellent choices. I spent a while looking at PE and I couldn't find any other drivers with appropriate power handling at this price. These are basically your options.
If you choose to keep your sealed back mid, we can't really help you any further. That type of enclosure-- the cubo 15-- is not designed to play very high at all. Ultimately I would not consider crossing it above 100hz.
i've used to cubo as high as 250 but it does get boxy as you go up.
earlier in the thread i was hoping to change his mind about the closed back mid because if he created a mid / high that had better low range he would have the flexibility to use his "tops" stand alone and when he want to kick it out he can add the sub (it would also make choosing the crossover more a matter of taste)
earlier in the thread i was hoping to change his mind about the closed back mid because if he created a mid / high that had better low range he would have the flexibility to use his "tops" stand alone and when he want to kick it out he can add the sub (it would also make choosing the crossover more a matter of taste)
I imagine it does get very boxy.
In my opinion, your best bet for using the cubo 15 above 100hz is to reverse your driver in the chamber and flip the box upside down. This will allow the front of the driver to radiate into the air in a direction more towards your ears. I know it's bass, but every little bit helps. It's still technically directive way down there. At minimum, try flipping the box upside down to see if that changes the way those higher frequencies sound.
In my opinion, your best bet for using the cubo 15 above 100hz is to reverse your driver in the chamber and flip the box upside down. This will allow the front of the driver to radiate into the air in a direction more towards your ears. I know it's bass, but every little bit helps. It's still technically directive way down there. At minimum, try flipping the box upside down to see if that changes the way those higher frequencies sound.
Hmmm...
You'd need a direct-rating bass driver to meet your current midrange driver.
Alternatively, as the Cubo is a subwoofer, use something like an 8-10" midbass in a ported box. That'll get you low enough to meet the sub, and could be used seperately for vocal re-inforcement/monitoring if needbe.
Chris
You'd need a direct-rating bass driver to meet your current midrange driver.
Alternatively, as the Cubo is a subwoofer, use something like an 8-10" midbass in a ported box. That'll get you low enough to meet the sub, and could be used seperately for vocal re-inforcement/monitoring if needbe.
Chris
Chris is exactly right. It's not so bad, you have a sealed mid so you won't have any rear wave problems. You can create a single enclosure and put all three drivers in, your tweet, mid, and this Pyle PPA10 10" PA Speaker | 292-214 for example. That will play nicely to your subwoofer. In post #98 I thought your sub was a woofer and you did not have a sub.
Your cubo 15 is interesting to me, I am glad you made me aware of the design. I am considering building a Cubo Sub or two for myself. I hope to start construction here in less than a week.
Cheers!
Your cubo 15 is interesting to me, I am glad you made me aware of the design. I am considering building a Cubo Sub or two for myself. I hope to start construction here in less than a week.
Cheers!
Funny you mention a 10"
I decided to build a box for my mids and highs about 2 hours before I saw this post. I built a 20" tall, 13" deep, 14" wide. I made it big enough so that I'll be able to throw in a 10" mid to replace my current 6.5" mid in the near future.
So what do you think of that idea, if I just drop in that 10" you suggested to replace my 6.5" (I don't want to build a whole new box now to keep the 6.5" and keep the 10")?
Nice! I did a calculation in WinISD for you, attached is the projected response of the 10" Pyle driver in the sealed box you created assuming all enclosure walls are 3/4" thick material. It will work fine, a 1db rise is not a big deal. I will, however, highly advise to use a high pass filter on that driver at 100hz and cross the cubo 15 over at 100hz as well. You don't want to have that 10" muddying up the sound of your cubo 15.
As far as how high it can go; The 10" should play fine to the tweet with that pre-built crossover you bought. I don't see any real issues there, anyone else have any comments on that?
Note: The box worked out to be 1.53899 cubic feet. In WinISD I rounded to 1.5
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So far everything has been running the same for the past few weeks. I'll get the 10" mid soon and some new crossovers, I'll post in here when I'm ordering them.
Hi There!!
I have the PPA10's and I had done some measurements on them that you may be interested in seeing.
I case you haven't seen them they can be found here,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/205114-cheap-diy-pa-system.html#post2926850
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/205114-cheap-diy-pa-system.html#post2928128
I think that they would make for some great Bass Mids but that is about it.
They drop of sharply after 1000hz and they sound like it as well as it shows in my FR measurements.
My old Altec lansing 15's have way more upper mid's than the Pyles have to offer.
However for Bass mids they are very powerful and give a lot of punch.
I have 6 of them in a Sunn 610 cabinet and I have not yet tried them with an amp bigger than 200watts on them yet.
But they do play very loudly and clean using just my guitar (85' Strat) set on clean mode.
My only gripe about them as mentioned is the lack of the high mids above 1-2khz.
I mainly plan on using them with my bass guitar anyhow.
The THD of these drivers is approximately -35db to -40db throughout their passband as shown using HOLMimpulse or 1.77% THD to 1% THD.
Not quite Hi-Fi Quality but will knock your socks off with enough power!!
Cheers !!
jer
I have the PPA10's and I had done some measurements on them that you may be interested in seeing.
I case you haven't seen them they can be found here,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/205114-cheap-diy-pa-system.html#post2926850
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/205114-cheap-diy-pa-system.html#post2928128
I think that they would make for some great Bass Mids but that is about it.
They drop of sharply after 1000hz and they sound like it as well as it shows in my FR measurements.
My old Altec lansing 15's have way more upper mid's than the Pyles have to offer.
However for Bass mids they are very powerful and give a lot of punch.
I have 6 of them in a Sunn 610 cabinet and I have not yet tried them with an amp bigger than 200watts on them yet.
But they do play very loudly and clean using just my guitar (85' Strat) set on clean mode.
My only gripe about them as mentioned is the lack of the high mids above 1-2khz.
I mainly plan on using them with my bass guitar anyhow.
The THD of these drivers is approximately -35db to -40db throughout their passband as shown using HOLMimpulse or 1.77% THD to 1% THD.
Not quite Hi-Fi Quality but will knock your socks off with enough power!!
Cheers !!
jer
Attachments
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Hi There!!
I have the PPA10's and I had done some measurements on them that you may be interested in seeing.
I case you haven't seen them they can be found here,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/205114-cheap-diy-pa-system.html#post2926850
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/205114-cheap-diy-pa-system.html#post2928128
I think that they would make for some great Bass Mids but that is about it.
They drop of sharply after 1000hz and they sound like it as well as it shows in my FR measurements.
My old Altec lansing 15's have way more upper mid's than the Pyles have to offer.
However for Bass mids they are very powerful and give a lot of punch.
I have 6 of them in a Sunn 610 cabinet and I have not yet tried them with an amp bigger than 200watts on them yet.
But they do play very loudly and clean using just my guitar (85' Strat) set on clean mode.
My only gripe about them as mentioned is the lack of the high mids above 1-2khz.
I mainly plan on using them with my bass guitar anyhow.
The THD of these drivers is approximately -35db to -40db throughout their passband as shown using HOLMimpulse or 1.77% THD to 1% THD.
Not quite Hi-Fi Quality but will knock your socks off with enough power!!
Cheers !!
jer
Thanks for that information! Tubeamper, you may want to play with the idea of a 3-way. Once you order the 10 you'll have both anyway, so you'll have plenty of opportunity to play around and experiment. The best way to learn!
How is that A500 amp looking?
Do you mean 3 way or tri-amped? Because I'm already doing 3 way.
So far the Behringer A500 seems great, stays pretty cool even when playing at about 3/4 power, and no fans (unlike the slightly noisy Crest Audio LA601).
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