If you beleive that wire has audibly significant directionality/asymmetry, then why would you want to align the wires in a loop -- such as that from amplifier to speaker and back -- in the same direction relative to the current, as proponents of directionality seem to promote? This would make the asymmetric distortion of the wire double that of one-half the length. If the wire was reversed in direction half-way through, the asymmetry in each direction would cancel, so the wire would have symmetric response.
Either directional cables are bad design -- since they could be made to not asymetrically distort by reversing half, or asymmetrical distortion is desired for audio, in which case you should improve your system by adding more in, or wire directionality is bunk.
Either directional cables are bad design -- since they could be made to not asymetrically distort by reversing half, or asymmetrical distortion is desired for audio, in which case you should improve your system by adding more in, or wire directionality is bunk.
fdegrove said:
What relevance has my trying anything to do with specific claims made as to physical causes?
You don't have the answer?
This is due to crystal annealing and the effect can be lessened by cryo treatment.
That doesn't sound like "I don't have the answer" to me.
Are you trying to mislead people with these claims or what?
se
It is the usual story. Those who claim cable directionalty and
other obscure things seems not able to distinguish between
the effect and the reason.
Just because one refutes their explanation doesn't mean
one necessarily rejects the possibility that the effect might
still be there. However, this seems to be difficult to understand
for some. Perhaps cables are directional, but current models
are not sufficient to explain it, or certain parametes are
overlooked. Not that I think cables are directional (for AC
that is) but I won't go as far as to claim they couldn't be.
other obscure things seems not able to distinguish between
the effect and the reason.
Just because one refutes their explanation doesn't mean
one necessarily rejects the possibility that the effect might
still be there. However, this seems to be difficult to understand
for some. Perhaps cables are directional, but current models
are not sufficient to explain it, or certain parametes are
overlooked. Not that I think cables are directional (for AC
that is) but I won't go as far as to claim they couldn't be.
Depends on which way the coil is wound, eh? Or in the case of refrigerator magnets (which normally consist of a stack of two or more magnets to knock down the field, so they're not a true N-S simple dipole), the way in which the back of the speaker was approached. I suspect the latter.
Regarding crystals, directivity, and AC signals, having spent my share of time in wire factories and playing around with my home system, I'm also mystified about what you're saying. I must indeed be the village idiot.
fdegrove said:
Then why did you make the claim? Again, are you just trying to mislead people?
Because I'm not the one who made the claim. Since you're the one who made the claim, the homework is yours, not mine.
And how does my listening to cables in different directions tell me or anyone else whether or not the phenomenon is due to crystal annealing as you claimed?
se
there Is An Expert Born Every Minute..................
To all you arm-chair experts who insist that music is AC and that cables cannot be directional, try, just try reversing the direction of one of your interconnects or speaker wires.
In my experience this causes an image sideways shift that cannot be cured with the balance control.
So to my logic this shows that there is some kind of dynamic directional characteristic, but I doubt that it will show up in sinewave testing.
I have also made non-directional interconnects in the past, and this gave the best depth imaging that I have ever heard.
The exact mechanism for directional characteristic is not clear to me but I suspect phonon behaviour to be the culprit, and asymetrical crystal boundaries would influence in this case.
Jocko, thanks for mentioning directional digital cables - I was getting around to that.
Eric.
To all you arm-chair experts who insist that music is AC and that cables cannot be directional, try, just try reversing the direction of one of your interconnects or speaker wires.
In my experience this causes an image sideways shift that cannot be cured with the balance control.
So to my logic this shows that there is some kind of dynamic directional characteristic, but I doubt that it will show up in sinewave testing.
I have also made non-directional interconnects in the past, and this gave the best depth imaging that I have ever heard.
The exact mechanism for directional characteristic is not clear to me but I suspect phonon behaviour to be the culprit, and asymetrical crystal boundaries would influence in this case.
Jocko, thanks for mentioning directional digital cables - I was getting around to that.
Eric.
Re: there Is An Expert Born Every Minute..................
You mean like how people have tried placing photographs of themselves in their freezers and found that to result in substantial improvements in their audio systems?
How exactly does simply trying something establish that there's actually anything going on at the physical level which could have any sort of audible effect?
Since it's entirely within the realm of possibility that such perceptions may be due entirely to psychologocal aspects, how exactly do you go about ruling that out other than by nothing more than a leap of faith?
What sort of testing do you reckon it would show up in?
What exactly leads you to suspect phonon behavior?
se
mrfeedback said:
You mean like how people have tried placing photographs of themselves in their freezers and found that to result in substantial improvements in their audio systems?
How exactly does simply trying something establish that there's actually anything going on at the physical level which could have any sort of audible effect?
Since it's entirely within the realm of possibility that such perceptions may be due entirely to psychologocal aspects, how exactly do you go about ruling that out other than by nothing more than a leap of faith?
What sort of testing do you reckon it would show up in?
What exactly leads you to suspect phonon behavior?
se
fdegrove said:
So first you say that it is, then you say you don't have the answer, then you say you don't believe that it's due to crystal annealing, now you say it is due to crystal annealing.
I'd care because I've an interest in physical phenomena. And if there was anything to the crystal annealing claim, I'd be interested in reading more about it.
I'm happy listening to music. Which a thin film of copper oxide on the wire doesn't seem to get in the way of.
Baiting? Not at all. I'm simply holding you to the same standard that yourself and several others are always so keen to hold me to. Do you feel you should somehow be exempt from those same standards?
se
The Boy Cries 'Wolf, AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN, and ......................
Steve, photographs in frezers are nothing to do with this discussion.
Everytime there is a subject that you cannot or will not even attempt to understand you mention photographs in freezers, and worse still you do not ever try the experiments mentioned.
I suggest you go back to AA (that is if they will take you back) and bore everyone there with your antics.
Eric.
Suggestion - go and do some investigation and research of your own on this subject and enlighten us all with your new found wisdom.
Go and discuss sonic psychological effects with your physchiatrist.
Steve, photographs in frezers are nothing to do with this discussion.
Everytime there is a subject that you cannot or will not even attempt to understand you mention photographs in freezers, and worse still you do not ever try the experiments mentioned.
I suggest you go back to AA (that is if they will take you back) and bore everyone there with your antics.
Eric.
Suggestion - go and do some investigation and research of your own on this subject and enlighten us all with your new found wisdom.
Go and discuss sonic psychological effects with your physchiatrist.
fdegrove said:
Quit beating that "try it" dead horse, Frank. It's not about trying. I could try this or that all day long and experience it sounding different this way versus that way. That does nothing in itself to establish one way or the other whether or not my experience is due to anything physical going on in the equipment.
I do quite a number of things simply because to me, they sound better even though there's no readily explainable reason for them to sound any different at all. But because all I ultimately care about when it comes to listening to music is how it sounds to me, I don't care whether my experience is due to physics or psychology.
And to that end, I neither assume nor claim that my experience has anything to do with physics.
But here you've made a declarative statement regarding the physics behind what some perceive as the directionality of wire. That goes beyond the realm of "it just sounds better to me." You're telling everyone here that this is the actual physical cause of wire directionality.
Help what? A group listening session would no more prove the veracity of your claim regarding crystal annealing than attending a Klan rally would prove the veracity of the claim that blacks are genetically inferior to whites.
se
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